Red Cobb survey of all its 30 backs....post your inputs ?

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Posted By: Bob Donaldson

Cycle 460

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

1st....the 10 red Cobb's reported (so far) with PIEDMONT 460 Fac. 42 do not surprise me in the least.
If we were to get a lot more participation in this survey (at least 200 inputs), we would get a more
realistic perspective. And, the 10 red Cobb's with P460/42 backs would not seem out of line.

2nd....in a P460/42 survey that I ran last November, the six super-prints (this red Cobb is one) were
more often reported with P460/42 backs than other 350/460 subjects. Furthermore, I have a theory
why this Cobb is found with many P460/42 backs. The PIEDMONT brand was very popular in the South-
east, so American Litho. printed up many red Cobb's at the tail end of the PIEDMONT run and shipped
them to Durham, NC (Factory 42) to be inserted into the L&M PIEDMONT packs.

3rd....Finally, In recent years, P460/42 cards have been sought after much more so than in the past.
The 1st T206 set that I put together back in the 1980's had 4 - P460/42 cards in it....that I was not
even aware of. Simply, because this back was seldom seen (most collectors were unaware of it).

When Bill Heitman published The Monster in 1980, Red HINDU backed T206's were virtually unknown.


TED Z

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Posted By: Drew

Hi Ted

My red Cobbs
sweet cap 350..30
tolstoi

Drew

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Posted By: Scott Stiffler

Sweet Cap 350 / factory 30

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Posted By: Frank A.

Ted; I am not reporting another Cobb, but pulled my card out to check the factory number again. It is a Sweet Cap factory 25, 350 back. Are these for some reason scarce, as I see all others are fac 30

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

The Red Cobb is not often seen with a Sweet Caporal 350 Factory 25 (VA) back.

And, it is less seen with a Sweet Caporal 460 Factory 25 back.

I'm not sure why this is so....as the Factory 30 (NY) versions of both these Sweet Caps are very plentiful.


TED Z

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Posted By: ErikV

I have a red back Cobb (PSA 3).....Piedmont


It's a 350/460 back, factory 25/dist. 2.


Edited to include t-brand.

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

You left out the T-brand on your " xx 460 Fac, 25 " Cobb ?


TED Z

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

Thanks BOB, DREW, SCOTT and ERIK for your Cobb inputs and thanks to two Net54 readers
that have contacted me with their inputs.




UPDATED survey....4/8/09

Scarcest group......

..1....BROAD LEAF 460
..0....DRUM
..1....HINDU (red)
..3....LENOX (black)
..0....UZIT
..3....SOVEREIGN 460
10....PIEDMONT 460 Factory 42
..5....CAROLINA BRIGHTS
..5....CYCLE 460
..2....EPDG

Next toughest group......

..7....AMERICAN BEAUTY 350
..1....CYCLE 350
..3....SOVEREIGN 350
..0....SWEET CAPORAL 46O Factory 25
..1....SWEET CAPORAL 460 Factory 42
..2....SWEET CAPORAL 460 Factory 42 (ovpt)
..6....TOLSTOI
..7....OLD MILL

The easier ones......

..2....SWEET CAPORAL 46O Factory 30
..1....SWEET CAPORAL 350 Factory 25
11....SWEET CAPORAL 350 Factory 30
10....PIEDMONT 460 Factory 25
12....PIEDMONT 350 Factory 25
..9....POLAR BEAR


OK, we have 102 total inputs.....but, we still need many more data points in order to arrive at
some valid conclusions.

Guys & gals, do not be shy about telling us of your Red Cobb cards....hop onto this bandwagon
and add your Cobb(s) to this list.

Hey JEFF L....where are all these Cobb's you have ?


TED Z

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Posted By: Marc S.

included above come from a collector? If so, you might want to add in the example that is in REA to your population.

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

The Red HINDU recorded in the survey list is the one from the current REA auction.


TED Z

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Posted By: JB

Piedmont 350................add one for that Cobb.

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Posted By: Justin

I have a Sweet Caporal 350-460 overprint

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Posted By: David McDonald

Keep up the good work, Ted.

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

Received 11 more inputs, since I've been "computer-less"....so, here is the updated tally for anyone still interested.




UPDATED survey....4/15/09

Scarcest group......

..1....BROAD LEAF 460
..0....DRUM
..1....HINDU (red)
..3....LENOX (black)
..0....UZIT
..3....SOVEREIGN 460
10....PIEDMONT 460 Factory 42
..5....CAROLINA BRIGHTS
..5....CYCLE 460
..2....EPDG

Next toughest group......

..7....AMERICAN BEAUTY 350
..1....CYCLE 350
..3....SOVEREIGN 350
..0....SWEET CAPORAL 46O Factory 25
..1....SWEET CAPORAL 460 Factory 42
..4....SWEET CAPORAL 460 Factory 42 (ovpt)
..6....TOLSTOI
..9....OLD MILL

The easier ones......

..3....SWEET CAPORAL 46O Factory 30
..1....SWEET CAPORAL 350 Factory 25
12....SWEET CAPORAL 350 Factory 30
12....PIEDMONT 460 Factory 25
14....PIEDMONT 350 Factory 25
10....POLAR BEAR


We have a total of 113 inputs....but, we need at least 200 inputs in order to arrive at some meaningful conclusions.


Guys and gals, don't be shy....show or tell us of your Red Cobb cards.


Hey Jeff Lichtman......we are still waiting to see all your Red Cobb's....are you hoarding them ?


TED Z

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Ted, glad to see you again! We tried all that we could to lure you out of hiding on the new board -- to no avail!

I've got a single red Cobb and it's a lowly Piedmont 350, factory 25.

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Posted By: Craig W

Hi Ted,

Last nite a T213-1 Red Cobb ended on ebay. I know you believe the Type 1 Coupons should be part of T206, so I thought you might like to be aware of it. (I tried a snipe of $1200, but obviously I got blown out of the water!) Here's the link:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&it em=120401023810

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Posted By: Bruce Mac

Add another Old Mill to your list.

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

I saw your's and John W's "lures"....as soon as I can get the software to enable my computer with it's new Hard Drive
to work with my scanner....I will "blow you guys out of the water" with my T206 Cobb.


Incidently, I must say, I'm disappointed that you did have some "exotic" Red Cobb's


TED Z

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Posted By: Donavon Arabie

Craig,

I bid on the T213-1 Cobb as well, but couldn't make myself go any higher. The paperloss killed it for me & the top edge definately looked trimmed. Still a nice card, though.

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

I'm not going to add this "baby" to the survey list....lest I'll get grief from the " Burdick
can't be wrong" crowd....and, who do I think I am to question him ?

Thanx for bringing this 1910 Coupon to my attention.






TED Z

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Posted By: Brian Weisner

Hi Ted,
Here are my Red Cobb's.....

1 Carolina Brights
1 Polar Bear
1 EPDG
1 Old Mill
1 Sovereign 350
1 Piedmont 460 42
1 Sweet Cap 460 25
1 Piedmont 350
1 Sweet Cap 460 30

Be well Brian

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Posted By: John

Ted funny you should say exotic Cobb's Jeff and I just purchased all these. All of the backs are Red Hindu....

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

Thanks ole buddy......9 - Red Cobb's......now, that is really impressive.

We might get to 200 cards, yet.

Best regards, Brian.

TED Z

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

Your array of 7 pastel colored Cobb's are a pretty sight to see......However, check-out my 2 extraordinary
UZIT Cobb's......

The "exotic-ness" of these two Cobb's certainly trump your 7 Cobb's....






American Litho. must of thought Cobb was brandishing his "weapon" on this one and printed him with their
T80 series.


T-Rex TED

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Posted By: John

LMAO...Ted Cobb always said baseball was like war.

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Posted By: Bruce Babcock

Anyone have a guess as to how many red Cobbs (including all backs) exist? Probably an easier question is, how many red Cobbs have been graded, all companies included?

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Posted By: Jim VB

Bruce,

PSA shows they have graded 1093. SGC shows 303.

Edited to add - I'll check with GAI on Monday.

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Posted By: Brian E.

Ted,

I noticed your list is seeking to track the Red Hindus but I don't see an entry for a regular Hindu....In the years that I've been collecting the different Cobb backs, I've seen more EPDG, Lenox, Cycle and Uzits than even a normal Hindu Cobb.

Brian E.

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Posted By: Dave Hornish

Is the Red Cobb the most graded card at PSA and SGC?

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Posted By: Jim VB

Dave,

That's a pretty broad question. I don't think either company makes that info searchable in their database.

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Posted By: Jim VB

Ted,

I have two, both Sweet Cap 350 Factory 30.

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

I don't know how we can establish a grand total population of how many Red Cobb cards exist.
Grading Co. POP reports are at best misleading (due to constant churning of re-grading). And,
there are still many old dinosaurs like me who have ungraded Cobb's (currently, I have 4 such
Red Cobb's).

Then there are (by my count) 30 different Red Cobb's....24 T206's, Ty Cobb back, 1910 Coupon,
T213-2, T213-3, T214 and T215....which complicates any true count of this Subject.

Here is what we do know......in two independent T206 surveys totalling over 40,000 cards, the
Red Cobb out-numbers all other T206 Subjects (except the 5 other Super-Prints) by a factor of
approx. 2 to 1. The closest Subjects were guys like Johnson (portrait) and Joss (pitching). From
these surveys, Johnson's sample was 110 cards and Joss' sample was 124 cards....while the Red
Cobb's sample was 196.


TED Z

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

You noted......
"I noticed your list is seeking to track the Red Hindus but I don't see an entry for a regular Hindu...."

Are you alluding to the Brown HINDU back ?

I don't think you are, because the Brown HINDU back exists only in the 150/350 Series of T206's.
The Red Cobb was printed in the 350/460 Series; and therefore, can never be found with a Brown
Hindu back.


TED Z

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

Thanks JEFF L, BRUCE M, BRIAN W, JIM VB and a Net54 reader for your inputs.





UPDATED survey....4/16/09

Scarcest group......

..1....BROAD LEAF 460
..0....DRUM
..1....HINDU (red)
..3....LENOX (black)
..0....UZIT
..3....SOVEREIGN 460
11....PIEDMONT 460 Factory 42
..6....CAROLINA BRIGHTS
..5....CYCLE 460
..3....EPDG

Next toughest group......

..7....AMERICAN BEAUTY 350
..1....CYCLE 350
..4....SOVEREIGN 350
..1....SWEET CAPORAL 46O Factory 25
..1....SWEET CAPORAL 460 Factory 42
..5....SWEET CAPORAL 460 Factory 42 (ovpt)
..6....TOLSTOI
11....OLD MILL

The easier ones......

..4....SWEET CAPORAL 46O Factory 30
..1....SWEET CAPORAL 350 Factory 25
14....SWEET CAPORAL 350 Factory 30
12....PIEDMONT 460 Factory 25
16....PIEDMONT 350 Factory 25
11....POLAR BEAR


We have a total of 127 inputs....but, we need at least 200 inputs in order to arrive at some
meaningful conclusions.


Guys and gals, don't be shy....show or tell us of your Red Cobb cards.





TED Z

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Posted By: Richard

Ted -

Here is a drum. Not mine, but wish it was.

http://www.huntauctions.com/online/imageviewer.cfm?auction_num=32&lot_num=646&lot_qua l=

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

I was aware of this Cobb when the Hunt find was reported.

But, I didn't input it, hoping that some one here would provide a scan.


Thanks again,

TED Z

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

Thanks to Richard and 4 emails responses from Net54 readers, we have 6 more inputs.


TED Z

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

UPDATED survey....4/20/09

Scarcest group......

..1....BROAD LEAF 460
..1....DRUM
..1....HINDU (red)
..3....LENOX (black)
..0....UZIT
..3....SOVEREIGN 460
12....PIEDMONT 460 Factory 42
..6....CAROLINA BRIGHTS
..5....CYCLE 460
..3....EPDG

Next toughest group......

..7....AMERICAN BEAUTY 350
..1....CYCLE 350
..4....SOVEREIGN 350
..1....SWEET CAPORAL 46O Factory 25
..1....SWEET CAPORAL 460 Factory 42
..5....SWEET CAPORAL 460 Factory 42 (ovpt)
..6....TOLSTOI
11....OLD MILL

The easier ones......

..4....SWEET CAPORAL 46O Factory 30
..1....SWEET CAPORAL 350 Factory 25
14....SWEET CAPORAL 350 Factory 30
12....PIEDMONT 460 Factory 25
20....PIEDMONT 350 Factory 25
11....POLAR BEAR


We have a total of 133 inputs.....it doesn't look like we'll attain the 200 figure that I hoped for.
Anyhow, we are 2/3 rds of the way there, and that will do for now.


If there are anymore Cobb collectors out there, please show or tell us of your Red Cobb cards.

And, the only T206 back that has not been reported is the UZIT....does any one have one ?


TED Z

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Posted By: Glyn Parson

I have a Piedmont 460 Factory 25.

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

GLYN....thanks for your PIEDMONT 460/25 input.

Also, I received a Net54 reader's email input with a TOLSTOI back.





Here's my UZIT red Cobb.....it's too bad that it's my gimmicked-up fake. Otherwise, if real, it would
be a really unique error that would command big $$$$$$.
Actually, I'm surprised that such printing mistakes haven't been found, since American Lithographic
was printing these Red Cobb's and the T80 Military men cards, simultaneously, in early 1911.

In any event, still looking for a Red Cobb with a UZIT back to confirm its 24 different T206 backs.

Or, any other Red Cobb's will do ?


TED Z

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Posted By: Todd

I have one red Cobb.

It has an Old Mill back.

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Posted By: Bruce Babcock

Hi, Ted. I agree completely with you about resubmissions and ungraded cards owned by old farts like me. I was surprised, though, by how many have been graded, even accounting for resubmissions.

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Posted By: gil lindgren

ted,you can add a sweet caporal 350 factory #30 to the list.

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Posted By: Jeff D.

You can add another Piedmont 460 factory 25 to the list.

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Posted By: brian p

One more Piedmont 350 factory 25 can be added to the list.

Brian

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

Thanks for bringing up this subject again. I have given this some thought and I think we can extrapolate and arrive at
an educated guess to answer your original question. Let's do a little math here......

Let's assume that this random survey of 40,000 T206 cards is valid. It yielded 196 red Cobb's......and, an over all ave-
rage (OAA) of 78 each of the other 509 T206's.

40,000/509 T206 Subjects = OAA of 78 T206's.....509 = 524 - (the Big 6, 6-Super Prints, Dahlen, Elberfeld, Lundgren)

40,000/196 = a red Cobb per every 200 cards


Red Cobb/OAA = 2.5 red Cobb's per any other 509 Subjects

Simply stated, the Red Cobb lies somewhere between a Double Print and a Triple Print.


Furthermore, Scot Reader, in his book "Inside T206", has a chapter on the "survivability" of the T206 cards. If I recall
correctly, he estimates approx. 1 to 2 Million cards. I think Scot's estimate is a good one.

So, if we divide 1 Million T206's by 200, it yields 5,000 red Cobb's. This number might sound high; and, I'm sure I'll be
challenged on this population #.....but, that's my best guess.


Best regards,

TED Z

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

Thanks....TODD....GIL....JEFF....BRIAN....for your Red Cobb inputs.

I'm going to visit an old hobby friend tonite who has a huge T206 collection (all ungraded), which includes 8 red Cobb's.

So, I will be upgrading this survey late tonite or tomorrow with at least 14 new inputs.



TED Z

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Posted By: Mike Mattison

Polar Bear for me.

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Posted By: PeterSpaeth

Sovereign 350