Bob P - please get your facts straight

[Archive]

Posted By: J Paul

Earlier in this thread you made a comment that a jockey will keep riding a horse with a broken leg in order to get a piece of the purse...if you honestly believe that, I suggest you have a friend let you ride on the hood of a car, get it up to 40mph and have him slam on the brakes, throwing you to the pavement face first. That's what a jockey faces pushing an injured horse.

A jockey will pull a horse up at ANY sign of distress - doesn't matter if it's a cheap claimer at Finger Lakes (by the way there is no $1500 claiming level at FL either) or the Breeders Cup Classic. His/her own safety is at stake with the risk of injury, paralysis, or death.

---

You also said that you believed that Sham broke down in the Belmont Stakes won by Secretariat. A little fact checking would be in order but by the tone and off the cuff remarks you've made here facts aren't your cup of tea. Sham did NOT break down in the Belmont.

Sham had run two races in the Kentucky Derby and Preakness in 1973 that in any other year would have put him on the cusp of winning the Triple Crown. However he had the unfortunate destiny of being born in the same year as perhaps the greatest race horse of all time, the immortal Big Red. In the Belmont Jockey Laffit Pincay Jr was told to keep Sham running alongside Secretariat from the start. The two of them basically sprinted for a mile until Sham could no longer keep up. The poor guy had given his all but Secretariat was just too much horse. Pincay eased up on Sham who finished last of five while Big Red just kept on going in what most consder the greatest performance ever run by a race horse.

Sham was kept in training, and was preparing to meet Secretariat yet again at Saratoga. He was retired to stud in July when a hairline fracture was discovered a leg. Later, Secretariat was upset by Onion in the Whitney Stakes at Saratoga.

Ironically Sham outlived Secretariat. He did at the age of 23 from a heart attack. Big Red was euthanized at age 17 due to complications from laminitis, the same painful condition that ultimately claimed Barbaro.

---

You're going to believe what you want to believe and you are entitled to your opinion. But by the same token I have 25 years in the racing industry and feel compelled set the record straight when facts are being twisted.

[Archive]

Posted By: J Paul

Oops! Sorry, meant for Kentucky Derby thread.

[Archive]

Posted By: Bob Pomilla

"Sham was a worthy opponent, and in any other year when he wouldn't have faced Secretariat his name would have shone. But in 1973, he was just second best. He sadly broke down in the Belmont Stakes, never to race again. Big Red was way too much."

The above is from:

"http://thoroughbred-racing.suite101.com/article.cfm/1973_kentucky_derby_all_big_red>"

"An odd breakdown at the Belmont for Sham. In July after the Belmont a hairline fracture was found in his leg so he was retired."

From:

http://alexbrownracing.com/wiki/index.php/Sham>

The chart comment for Sham's Belmont trip was not "eased" but rather "stopped badly", which may be indicative of an injury. Yes, Sham was kept in training, but six weeks after the Belmont, he was diagnosed with that hairline fracture, which was attributed to his Belmont run and likely the cause of his "stopped badly" running line.

[Archive]

Posted By: Anonymous

Quoting...He sadly broke down in the Belmont Stakes, never to race again. Big Red was way too much."
The above is from:
"http://thoroughbred-racing.suite101.com/article.cfm/1973_kentucky_derby_all_big_red>">

You are quoting a comment to a blog entry, hardly a verifiable source of information, which the commenter is blantantly wrong. I'd be happy to put you in touch with a noted horse racing writer who was working in New York at the time of Secretariat and can set the record straight for you.

Quoting...An odd breakdown at the Belmont for Sham. In July after the Belmont a hairline fracture was found in his leg so he was retired."
From:
http://alexbrownracing.com/wiki/index.php/Sham>

Again, you choose to quote another blog, unverified sources.

Quoting...The chart comment for Sham's Belmont trip was not "eased" but rather "stopped badly", which may be indicative of an injury.

It's obvious you haven't done much running in your life...haven't you ever run too fast and run out of breath or your legs just wouldn't take you any faster? Does this mean you broke your leg? Certainly not.

Had Sham actually been injured in the Belmont, the injury would have been apparent to any trainer even while walking. Sham's trainer was Frank Martin, who was long one of the leading trainers in the industry. Sham would have been taken out of training immediately. Had he actually had a hairline fracture - a small one would have healed in six weeks, though the horse would have have been able to be trained or walked during that time.

Again, all I am pointing out is that you are making blanket statements about horse racing that are not based on fact, and you are backing up your statements with erroneous information. It's quite clear to me that you consider yourself an animal activist which I actually respect and applaud, however you also seem to have such a closed mind that you live in a separate reality, one that you feel you can pick and choose whatever sources back up your point of view. The world is not black and white.

Your posts in other animal related forums reflect this as well - one sided.

Horse racing has its problems, but I do what I can to help bring about change from the inside.

You aren't going to change my point of view on horse racing, nor am I going to change yours, but I will listen to your points if you state facts, not one sided opinions.

That is called EXTREMEISM.

This is the last I will write on this subject - you're welcome to have the last word...and I know you will...then let this thread die.

[Archive]

Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

What a load of crap. I get it: whipping horses, pumping them full of steroids, breeding them solely to run as fast as possible without concern that they may break down, tragedy after tragedy occuring on racetracks in full view of the entire country --- and yet to cite these things makes one an 'extremist.' Thunderbelly, face it: if not for the wealthy class that enjoys horseracing (a dying 'sport' as we all know as based on attendance at horsetracks), people would view proponents much the way they view the lowlifes from the Ozarks that live in double wide trailers and train cocks for fighting. Give me all of your useless propaganda/drivel all you want, but it falls on deaf ears to most civilized members of society today.

[Archive]

Posted By: Jim VB

<<...the lowlifes from the Ozarks that live in double wide trailers and train cocks for fighting.>>

Jeff,

Your take on this is extremely unfair! Some of those lowlifes actually live in the Appalachians, not he Ozarks.

[Archive]

Posted By: Todd Schultz

I look forward to hearing from all the civilized members of this board on the subject, now that the oracle has spoken. Any horseracing fans here? Explain yourselves, and fast.

Me, I watch the triple crown races pretty much every year for the last thirty-five or so, and the occasional Breeder's Cup. My bankbook tells me I ain't wealthy, and we done ain't got no mountains in Minnesota when I lived there, so must just be the hay stuck in my teeth, er, I mean tooth.

[Archive]

Posted By: Brian Weisner

Hi Todd,
You have to forgive Jeff, as he went to Duke, and is a little off. I'm pretty sure most people don't equate Horseracing to cockfighting, but these days you never know. If I didn't know better I would think that Jeff is a PITA member...., but he eats Steaks.... smiley... Be well Brian


PS Hi Jeff, I think Dog racing is a lot closer to cockfighting.... The Horseowners that I know are very good people...


PS 2. I hope the twins are letting you sleep...smiley...

[Archive]

Posted By: David Goff

I love horse racing, but I live in Louisville, Ky, so that makes me an automatic race horse fan. LOL Bob P, Jeff, Dan B and myself and a little debate about the racing industry a couple of weeks ago. We disagreed about some things, and at the end of the day, we all shook hands. That is one thing I like about this board, is that you can argue one minute and be friends the next. But one thing I hate most in the world is Duke Basketball.

CHRISTIAN LAETTNER is public enemy #1 in the state of Kentucky. GO BIG BLUE!!!

[Archive]

Posted By: Tom Boblitt

no offense but given the subject.....you might want to get down off that horse.....it's a little high up there.

[Archive]

Posted By: paulstratton

lmao Tom. I think OTB has had a lot to do with the lack of attendance at the track, probably more than the tragic deaths.

[Archive]

Posted By: David Goff

You nailed it Paul..

[Archive]

Posted By: E, Daniel

When I look at a horse, the last thing on earth that occurs to me is that it is an animal that wishes to be fenced in to prevent its escape.
I don't look at the swail in its back and say 'gee, that animal is dying to have 150-200 pounds propped on its spine as it moves around. The animal wasn't 'designed' that way - either naturally or supernaturally - to carry weight as it bounced around, any more than a tiger's back is a proper location for my ass either. No other creature 'rides' a horse, and if you have to break one's spirit to allow such conveyance, that should tell you everything you need to know about the activity.
While you can create relationships with horses if that is all they ever know, it is not an animal that would choose to seek out our companionship if it had its druthers, this is no dog, no ferret. It doesn't share in our lives and lifestyles, it merely acquiesces if properly trained to allow us to meet on neutral ground and provide an experience humans were not originally ever going to have.
So it feels good to us, and we therefore bend the natural world to fit our piques. And then we make up whatever excuse we wish to explain it to ourselves, even when deep down we know its wrong.

And please, don't any horse racing expert or lover try and tell me that MAKING an animal run to it's very limits under the pump of a rider is noble, or normal, or anything other than it really is. The immature dalliances of our species that has worked out how to rule every thing in our domain and have little to no understanding or empathy for the creatures we co-exist with.

Yeh, Sport of Kings exactly. Takes exactly that kind of arrogance to justify it.


No PETA member, vegetarian or Oregonian, though that says more about my own lack of 'stuff' than the failings of these headings.


Daniel

[Archive]

Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Sorry guys, but I do find it ironic that I'm being lambasted for being arrogant because I'm taking up for defenseless animals that are being unfairly treated. I'm an animal lover and it pains me to think that the last thing that Eight Belles experienced before breaking both legs and getting put to death on the track was getting whipped mulitple times down the stretch.

And Todd, if I come back in my next life as a BV rated lawyer in a podunk town, will you like me more? At least we'll have more in common, right?

[Archive]

Posted By: Bob

As one who lives in the general area of the Ozarks, doesn't live in a trailer and has never seen a cockfight in his life (but will be representing a few who have), it is interesting that the cockfighters are not generally native Arkansans but rather have come from south of the border, down Mexico way. Instead of names like Billy Bob and Tommy Jack, the defendants are named Jorge, Mario, Jose, etc. Just setting the story straight...

[Archive]

Posted By: Todd Schultz

what a surprise, attacking me for your sticking your foot in your mouth. Some things never change.
Prattle on, oh most humble speaker for the masses. Got anything smart-ass to say to the others who find your latest remarks to be, oh, I don't know, a little self-righteous?

[Archive]

Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Todd, I didn't stick my foot in my mouth.

As for your personal attack on me, keep in mind that I am not the cause of your failures in life; just a reminder of them.

[Archive]

Posted By: Todd Schultz

in response to someone's claim about certain folks being extremist, you came up with this well- balanced, even better reasoned gem:

"face it: if not for the wealthy class that enjoys horseracing (a dying 'sport' as we all know as based on attendance at horsetracks), people would view proponents much the way they view the lowlifes from the Ozarks that live in double wide trailers and train cocks for fighting. Give me all of your useless propaganda/drivel all you want, but it falls on deaf ears to most civilized members of society today."

You wanna stand on that? Most non-wealthy civilized people equate horse racing to cock-fighting?
I don't see it, but maybe the point is so obvious that to disagree is to just show ignorance, and to find arrogance in such a comment is to just show my jealousy. Yep, it's all me, well me and the folks that live in this podunk sixth largest city in the US.

Now c'mon, a couple more zingers about how I loathe living in your shadow, my life sucks and such other quips as show about the same amount of insightfulness and maturity as your above-quoted missive to the great unwashed.

[Archive]

Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Todd, the only people that ever attack me out here are the bottom feeding attorneys. Sorry, but it's true. I have no idea where you are or what you are but I am fairly certain that the shoe fits. And I think you know it's true.

I suspect you might also be against animals being whipped and abused all in the name of sport; however, I also know that you are a bitter, angry guy (like most attorneys) and feel the need to attack anything I say. It's ok; it does amuse me. I get it a lot.

As for my comment, horseracing has gotten a pass from most of society for many years due to, as Daniel pointed out, its perception as the Sport of Kings. If the people in the winner's circle looked more like those at cockfights, I suspect the perception would change. And if the people in the horse racing industry cared so much about the animals, why wouldn't they at the very least all agree to give up the whip? Would it really take away from your enjoyment of watching the races?

[Archive]

Posted By: Todd Schultz

well, you see, Jeff, I don't attack you. I attack some of what you say as being arrogant, pompous, self-righteous, unnecessarily unyielding, and/or just plain wrong. Show me the personal attacks.

By contrast, you call me a bottom feeder, living in a podunk town. There's probably a shot or two about where I went to school in your various remarks about me in the past too, but I'm too tired to look or care. I'm also called bitter and angry. Who's attacking whom personally? Show me the personal shots I've taken at you. If you believe I'm wrong to suggest you're arrogant, pompous, self-righteous, unnecessarily unyielding, and/or just plain wrong, show me how and defend your position. As it is, you just take a "my school is better than yours (which argument became meaningless to most of us about a quarter century ago or more), you're not as successful as me, you don't live in as nice a city as me, you must be unhappy, lonely, etc" and such similar irrelevant positions as to what, make yourself feel better?

I and many others do indeed find some aspects of horse racing to be disturbing and sad. Still, to condescendingly refer to us as uncivilized rubes for still enjoying the sport in no way advances the ball, and shoots your credibility on the subject to zero, IMO. And you can try all you want to throw it back at me, but I'll just let the posted words speak for themselves, and let folks draw their own conclusions. Good night.

[Archive]

Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Todd, perhaps you can scroll up and see where you, of course, insulted me first. I can't remember a single time that I ever attacked you first. It has never once happened. You do this every time and then get angry when I call you on it and smack you back. I only point out your nonexistence in the legal field because we both know that is why you start in on me anyway. Again, it's ok as long as you don't mind me pointing out why you do what you do.

[Archive]

Posted By: paulstratton

"Horse racing... now here's something idiotic. I have no idea which horse is gonna win. I don't even think the horses know they're racing. It's not like they're going back to the barn going "I was first" "I was second"...you cut me off there, watch that, next time I'll kick your ass." I'll tell you one thing the horses don't know--that if they fall and break their leg, we're gonna blow their brains out. I think they're missing that vital piece of information... if they did know, you'd see some mighty careful stepping going down that backstretch."

[Archive]

Posted By: JimCrandell

I like horse racing. I can sit and watch 10 races one after another on tv and be entertained. I like even more going to the track and betting on the horses. And I love the big races. Horseracing seems pretty popular to me. Heck dog racing is popular too. I think OTB has taken a bite out of track attendance though. Based on all the races I have seen, I would think that horses breaking down on the track is a rare event? But I could be wrong.

[Archive]

Posted By: Bob Pomilla

One last post for me on this thread, but I hope this quote from Sham's jockey Lafitte Pincay Jr., will put to rest once and for all whether or not Sham broke down in the Belmont.

------------------------------------------------------------------

Sham broke down in the Belmont, after dueling for the early lead with Secretariat through scorching early fractions, and never raced again. He was retired to stud.

``They were going awfully fast,'' Pincay said of the 1:09 4/5 opening six furlongs. ``I was just following instructions to keep Secretariat in sight. I don't know if he would have lasted, but I sensed something was wrong and I started easing him off.''

Frank Martin, Sham's trainer, was upset with Pincay after the race. But the Hall of Fame jockey said Martin called him a couple of days later when X-rays disclosed a bad fracture.

``He thanked me for saving his horse,'' Pincay said. ``I didn't know for sure, but I just had a feeling something wasn't right. I just started taking a hold of him, and some horses when you take a hold of them, they still want to try. But as soon as I took a hold of Sham, he gave up.''

------------------------------------------------------------------

If this statement from Sham's jockey isn't enough for someone, then there's no point to any further discussion with that person.

The quote is from:

http://www.thefreelibrary.com/ALMOST+A+GREAT+MOMENT.(SPORTS)-a083607767

[Archive]

Posted By: Bill

I never really cared much for horses running around the track. Much in the same way I don't care for cars going in circles. But, it's simply my opinion and what I find enjoyable.

And as a side note, when somebody has to consistantly mention their job as a means to justify their comments and worthiness to the masses, you've already lost. A job is just that, a job. If a person cannot keep their job and their self identity seperate, there are other issues at hand. Me? I don't think I could find a better job than what I've got now. Well, unless I was the starting left fielder on the Red Sox of course, but we'll leave Manny there.

Change your socks, drink water, and drive on.

[Archive]

Posted By: Andrew

No PETA member, vegetarian or Oregonian, though that says more about my own lack of 'stuff' than the failings of these headings.
____
As someone living in Portland, OR, this quote is a keeper. :--)


"Take your life in your own hands and what happens? A terrible thing: no one to blame." -- Erica Jong

[Archive]

Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Bill, Todd first surfaced during a thread about Scott Elkins and his cock fighting wherein I criticized Elkins for his barbaric practices; Todd came out and claimed that I had no right to criticize Elkins for harming animals because I was a criminal attorney and my clients have been accused of harming humans. Such an assertion is moronic for a non-lawyer to make; for someone who claimed to have graduated law school and, therefore, had actually read the constitution and the rights afforded people accused of crimes, such a comment is almost beyond belief idiotic. I didn't bring up what I do for a living with Todd, he did. And since I can't imagine that any attorney would say such a thing in an honest manner, it was clear to me that there was something else afoot. And since he was the second attorney to bring it up in an argument with me, I drew my conclusion as to the reasons why.

[Archive]

Posted By: Martin Neal

Has anyone seen the latest HBO special? If only half of that program is common practice, then the horse racing "business" has a lot of cleaning up to do. Can't these thoroughbreds be found decent homes after their usefulness to their owners is done? No need for us to fill out the menus in European restaurants. Stable to table in 7 days is disgusting and indefensible.

[Archive]

Posted By: Dan Koteles

if you cannot score, it is not a sport.

[Archive]

Posted By: Tim Newcomb

I wasn't going to say anything in this stupid thread, but I'm sick of your bashing Todd pointlessly. He first "surfaced" on this board a long time before you did, and has contributed a lot more card knowledge than you ever will. And by the way, YOU are the one who made it personal above. Todd expressed a different opinion from yours about horse racing. That is not a personal insult. Calling someone a failure in their job, "moronic" and "beyond belief idiotic" as you have done above, is rude beyond belief. Cut it out-- we all have better things to do.

[Archive]

Posted By: paulstratton

I would have to disagree Dan, as I think swimming and track(and a bunch more) are recognized sports.

Have times gotten appreciably faster at the three Triple Crown racetracks? I'm assuming they've always been run from the same distance. One of the things that I do like about horse racing is the long history that it has enjoyed.

[Archive]

Posted By: Cobby33

I think Jeff L. is right. Perhaps racehorse owners may be a bit more sopisticated and wealthier than the average cockfighter or dogfighter, but the ultimate goal is the same- making money on the backs (literally) of defenseless animals.

If you want to continue enjoying horseracing, be my guest, but you cannot say that it is a harmless "sport." How would you like to be ridden and whipped by a midget several times around a hot and dusty track? Um, on second thought, don't answer that.

[Archive]

Posted By: Tim

For those of you that have stated you would like to see an end to horse racing all together I'm curious. Would you end all horse riding competitions? Cross country, Dressage, ect.? Horses are hurt in those events as well. At least two horses had to be put down at the Rolex Championships this year. Would you like to see an end to rodeo events?

So if as some of you have stated, horse racing is cruel to the animals involved than wouldn’t these other areas be as well. Not judging any prior opinions, just interested in some opinions on this.

[Archive]

Posted By: Cobby33

Yes. Especially rodeos.

[Archive]

Posted By: DD

Man has domesticated some, and forced many other undomesticated animals to live among us, and to work amongst us. Not just horses, cats and dogs, but fish, snakes, all types of birds, etc. (See working example below; not sure if fish could help patch a leaky faucet, but I have used a snake when the toilet is clogged - LOL).

What about the mules that drag people up and down the Grand Canyon? Or the mules that drag timber out of the forests after trees are felled? They also were not made for these tasks.

Horses were tamed and used as transport, companions, and machines of war long before horse racing. I would think that when an army or king's or chief's colors were displayed, that the horses were equally adorned. The fastest and strongest steeds for the best of the men. The horses were well fed and cared for.

It's our competitive nature that drives us, and we've dragged this beautiful animal along with us. All this being said, personally, I have nothing against horse racing. I would certainly like to see the steroids eliminated. But this, as well as with our own well-beings, we ignore health and potential damage in pursuit of money and fame.

[Archive]

Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

David, I think your point is well-taken; however, using animals for work purposes or for sustinence is different than using them for sport -- even more so when abuse is involved. I'm not a PETA member and I do eat meat (other than veal, although I wish I didn't eat any meat). I suppose my feeling is that if I don't eat meat but still wear leather shoes aren't I a hypocrite?

I don't even mind horseracing as long as the animals are treated humanely. And I just don't think they are, i.e. the whip, steroids, etc. I know that people that own and train horses truly love them. But competition causes people to rationalize all sorts of bad behaviors.

While many people have a problem with boxing, I do not. After all, the two parties in a boxing match are consenting adults who make their own choices. It's different with horses in horseracing.

[Archive]

Posted By: DD

We agree Jeff.

As far as the whip, it does look painful, doesn't it? I know I wouldn't want to be hit with one. I do not know what impact it has on a horse, in terms of long term pain, impairment, etc. My guess is that the hide may not be the only place they are hit with it by some people.

I can only hope that the reason they are "urged" on with a whip is that we figured out that it does less damage than spurs.

[Archive]

Posted By: dan mckee

Dan, you can score in baseball and that is not a sport, it is a recreation. Any thing that you can play the entire game and not break a sweat is not a sport. If you play right field and have no balls hit to you, and you strike out all 4 times at the plate, then you can wear your uniform again the next day with out washing it. Baseball is not a sport but a recreation, like playing chess. Football, Basketball and Lacrosse and Soccer are sports.

[Archive]

Posted By: Cobby33

Yes, we are competitive beings. But let's compete amongst each other.
Oh, yeah, and when the animals start arming themselves, then hunting will be "civilized." Before that- it's pure cowardice.

[Archive]

Posted By: Steve

Baseball is not a sport but a recreation, like playing chess.


lol


Steve

[Archive]

Posted By: Tim

"Oh, yeah, and when the animals start arming themselves, then hunting will be "civilized." Before that- it's pure cowardice."

Cowardice? This is getting off track from the initial post but I couldn't just let it pass. You may not have the desire to hunt but unless you're a vegan I'm not sure I understand how you could call it cowardice. Are fishermen cowards too?

[Archive]

Posted By: Cobby33

There's plenty of meat in the meat section of the grocery store. If the hunters excuse their conduct with, "we eat it," then ok, I guess. Otherwise, for "sport," it's hardly a sport.

[Archive]

Posted By: Tim

Cobby I don't think you know a lot about hunting. Let's take deer hunting as our example. I went last year a half dozen times or more. I scouted looking for rubs and scrapes trying to decern where the best likelihood the deer were going to be. I spent hours on the ground or in tree stands looking and waiting and I never pulled the trigger once. I did see deer, but where I hunt we hold ourselves to high standards to keep the population of deer healthy.

Hunters for the most part do eat what they kill. They're not savages just looking for the thrill of the kill. Watch any hunting or fishing show and you will see that people involved in these activities tend to be the most respectful and conscientious wildlife and their home. Sure there are bad people but the number is small in comparison to those that aren't.

The deer population is stronger and more numerous now then ever. Hunters are actually helping farmers and the numerous people you know that hit deer with their cars every year. If they weren't hunted there would be a population explosion.

Again, I can understand how someone would not want to hunt, it's not for everyone, but if you truly know what it involves I don't think you would call it cowardice.

[Archive]

Posted By: Cobby33

Tim- Let's just agree to disagree.

I don't buy the whole, "we're curbing the population" argument. For the most part, that's pretextual for hunters wanting to get their jollies. I also don't buy the "we eat what we kill" argument.

There was a really lame movie in the 80's where rich people would hunt down homeless people. The "hunters" were armed with rifles, GPS, provisions, etc. The "hunted" were not. I see no difference between hunters and animals today. Again, arm the animals and maybe it's a sport, but ambushing defenseless animals is hardly a sport.

[Archive]

Posted By: Tim

I agree we just disagree and that's OK.

I just couldn't let go the fact that you called something I participate in cowardice without trying to give a viewpoint from the other side.

[Archive]

Posted By: Cobby33

You're right- I shouldn't have passed judgment and labeled it. My bad. But my view is clear- I won't label it, but I do stand by my viewpoint that it's hardly a sport and is very unfair.

[Archive]

Posted By: ROBERT ADAMS JR

Sadly , I know " people " who raise , train and fight cocks . Not Ozarks , upper class Cleveland area . $100,000 plus income . $ 60,000 purses . NO regard to animal life , cat , dog whatever . Sorry I ever met them .

[Archive]

Posted By: Dan Bretta

I wouldn't call hunting a sport...fishing either. But IMO hunting is necessary and I really have no problem with people who hunt for food. The deer population in Nebraska would be out of control without hunting and large populations of deer lead to diseases which are far more debilitating to the animals than hunting is.

[Archive]

Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

What is the thrill of chasing after defenseless animals while armed to the teeth with guns or bows? I've never done it so I'm admittedly ignorant but is there a thrill in killing a defenseless animal? If the animal is cornered is the thrill decreased or increased? I actually understand the population control issue, but I'm honestly curious as to why people do this.

[Archive]

Posted By: Dan Bretta

I don't have an answer as I am not a hunter, but I know many and it is thrilling for them. When I was a kid I killed a bird with my bb gun and told my mom about it...she started to cry and that was it for me.