PSA = Awful

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Posted By: bigfish

PSA increases their fees and no longer will give a set turn around time for any service. They continue to put cards in 4/5/6/7 holders with paperloss and their customer service department is poor. My last two orders ran 5 days over the predicted time and I paid alot to get the cards graded. This will be my last submission to PSA. I will send all of my cards to SGC. Atleast they are reasonable to deal with. Does anyone see PSA declining? I do. Any thoughts?

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Posted By: Dave F

Your right. They are horrible. They grade too much modern stuff to go belly up though. I have submission there right now that took 3 WEEKS to get logged into the system from the time my delivery receipt says it got there. Rest assured it will be my last submission to them.

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Posted By: Mark T

I agree...PSA is in for a real tough year. They start off with a change in grades and now they take 5-6 weeks to grade and ship cards.

SGC will be the one and only company to have your cards graded by in the near future. Their customer service is A++++. I just talk to Mike Goldberg tonight about a question regarding a submission and he was soooo helpful and did everything i would expect from a top notch grading company.

I will never sign up for a PSA membership again.

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Posted By: Cobby33

I give their customer "service" about a D+. I've had about 2 good experiences out of 20.

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Posted By: Steve

I'm a longtime SGC fan as well and disappointed in PSA, especially the last several subs I'd submitted. But, wouldn't the absence of healthy competition bode poorly for the collectors?

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Posted By: Alan U

PSA will survive on it's post war grading. If all that business moved to SGC then SGC would probably start to have similar problems.

I can see most of the vintage before Goudey's moving to SGC. They seem to do a much better job in that area.

Most people seem to dislike the PSA qualifiers, but it would be nice to know if the SGC 20's-30's have any writing on them.

-Alan

edited for typo

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Posted By: Peter_Spaeth

Here we go again... and again ... and again ... and again .. and.........
Leon why not have one permanent PSA bashing thread?

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Posted By: Anthony S.

it would take too long to load.

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Posted By: leon

If a board member has an issue and they put their name by their post I won't stop them from posting. It's really pretty easy to get along on the board....though the past few days have been a little bit drama filled. best regards

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Posted By: Peter_Spaeth

Can I start a "permanent PSA bashing thread" then?

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Posted By: Steve Murray

There will always be a future for a Company that has graded over 30,000 1984 Donruss cards.

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Posted By: Paul

1. Replace customer service management
2. make customer service a top priority
3. stop grading cards with paper loss EX or higher
4. stop slabbing cards that dont fit properly in their inserts. Sliding around is not ok.
5. get rid of those annoying qualifiers

Those are my top 5 peeves IMHO

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Posted By: leon

Please don't....as a lawyer you should applaud free speech ....

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Posted By: T.Ferg

I have noticed (in the few weeks I've been around these forums) that there are a few die-hards on either the PSA or SGC side that will sling poo until they pass-out. And then there are a whole bunch that go with the flow and don't care as to your choice of grader (and judge the cards on merit). Which leaves us with people just taking shots from hear-say(sheep) and high-end collectors/dealers whom are familiar with each other (dirty laundry and all) and still rub elbows. There is nothing new here, merely a microcosm of reality.

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Posted By: Phil Garry

My last two items that I submitted to PSA for grading, I sent them scans and descriptions in advance to make sure that they were gradeable and was told that they were. I subsequently received both back after a couple of weeks saying that they were not gradeable and received two vouchers for future gradings. The problem is: I have nothing to submit to them for grading now!!!

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Posted By: D. C. Markel

....another obligatory Network54 PSA attack thread by an anonymous poster followed with a glowing endorsement for SGC.

As for this comment, "I will send all of my cards to SGC. At least they are reasonable to deal with."

Well it's safe to say that this anonymous poster isn't James Haas. Ten month turnaround on a card that qualifies for nothing longer than 2 hour walk through service, numerous phone calls not returned, refusal by the grading company to give up the card at the grading facility even with the police at your side, having to retain an attorney, and finally suing in court so that you can get your card back. Is that your definition of "reasonable"?

As for PSA's alleged declining service, my answer is "definitely not". I submitted a vintage bulk commons order on January 19, 2008 and it was shipped February 8, 2008. That's twice as fast as the estimated turnaround time. (Submission #631907, Zip Code 77583 in case you wish to check it yourself).

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Posted By: Mark T

Who is the anonymous poster?....if you are talking about bigfish then i would say he is very well known (Toby). He has posted, Sold, bought and traded cards here for a long time.


Far from anonymous...

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Posted By: Steve

I see no bashing in this particular thread, merely an update. It seems PSA is rapidly changing but unable to deliver the same level of decent service.

In regards to prewar, one can't argue that SGC isn't a cut above. I've sent a letter to Joe, it will be interesting to read his responses to my lack of confidence issues. My timing may be poor, as there are several outstanding subs currently at CU.

From a three year PSA regular. Steve F

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Posted By: Jimmy

The last time I sent cards in was last spring, so I tend to buy more PSA and SGC cards rather than wait and pay for fees. There are always issues with grading no matter what, I have been sending cards to both companies for a long time, but this past year I just stopped. I will get back into the process at some point, but from the posts I hear on this forum, I am not looking forward to sending cards again.

Jimmy

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Posted By: Scott Mt. Joy

I have submissions in at both and think they are both an asset to the card industry. I have not had any issues with my last couple PSA subs and felt the grades were right now. I do think PSA has slipped in Pre WWII and SGC has become the market leader in that area but PSA still has a strangle hold on the 50's and later cards.

I am glad they are both around as competition is good, PSA would not have added half grades without the competition and I think a lot of the upgrades to the SGC registry are directly related to keeping up with PSA's Registry.

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Posted By: James Gallo

I totally agree with Toby.

You can read about my recent PSA issues in the thread below.

http://www.network54.com/Forum/153652/thread/1202227470/last-1202255550/Grading+Issue+and+Questions

My problem right now is that I have a lot of modern crap that I use to pay for the good stuff and moving to Beckett is the only option.

I am also in a bind because I am sitting on 200 1952 Topps cards with 20 graded by PSA. Ideally I would send them to SGC, but I am not sure I can afford to take a hit on these cards as I paid a good amount for them. Most are in the 4-6 range so they are nice.

I will probably not use PSA again and whatever is left on my two year contact can site and get pisses away. In my opinion they handled my recent problems the totally wrong way.

I plan to talk to them at the Reading show in a few weeks but it will take a great deal for me to have any change of heart.

James G

Looking for 1915 Cracker Jacks and 1909-11 American Caramel E90-1.

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Posted By: Matt M

The bottom line: A PSA graded card will sell for more than a SGC card. Until that changes, all of my cards are going to PSA. Even if it takes two months and the card flops around in the holder.

Matt M

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Posted By: James Gallo

Matt

I totally disagree with your statement. This may be true for post war and modern crap, but not true for pre-war stuff at all. I see almost no price difference in pre-war stuff and I think all the major auction houses agree with me as you see more and more stuff in SGC holders.

I think making a flat out statement like that is just a result of your own opinion and without any facts.

I don't have the time to bring facts to the table but I watch a lot of auctions and a lot of sets.

I think there is also proof in the fact that both of the last two old school collectors Nagy and Carter have had there collections graded by SGC and not PSA. This to me means that the big auction houses know that they will get either as good or better prices with pre-war cards in SGC holder instead of PSA.


James G

Looking for 1915 Cracker Jacks and 1909-11 American Caramel E90-1.

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Posted By: Fred C

Toby,

Were you just making a statement indicating PSA sucks? I agree! No news there. I guess it's been a while since we've had a good PSA bashing thread!

PSA is number one in grading volume but that doesn't mean too much when you consider all of the shiney crap they encapsulate. Will they go out of business? Who knows, maybe if they keep JO as their leader for a while more he'll find a way to drive the company into the ground. Do I want to see PSA out of business? Probably not because then we couldn't bash them in this forum and we probably wouldn't appreciate SGC as much as we do.

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Posted By: bigfish

Steve,
Thank you for seeing my point an interpreting my thread accurately. Love the avator BTW.

Fred and others,
I was just reporting some facts on two recent issues with PSA. They were rude to me on the phone, did not complete the service I paid for, and never followed up with me about the issues.

I mention the prices going up but there is no accountability for turn around times. This seems backwards and in my opinion, bad buisness. I mention SGC because I have never had a problem with them. I have never had a problem with GAI either. SGC gets back to me when there is an issue or a question, they mail my packages on time, and their quality control is very good. I am just one person who submitts cards. I prefer SGC and others like PSA. In my opinion, PSA needs to improve on many levels. Just my opinion.

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Posted By: jay wolt

"I think all the major auction houses agree with me as you see more and more stuff in SGC holders"

One reason SGC gets the nod w/ many auction houses is that they
pedigree the important collections. And as a Lionel Carter, Frank
Nagy & Casey Stengel collector it does add some value & mystique
to the cards.

Here's my latest pedigreed pickup

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Posted By: JK

"they pedigree the cards"

Last I checked, so does PSA - "Gretzky/McNall" and lets not forget the "Mr. X" collection.

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Posted By: Matt

The reason the auction houses are shifting to SGC is simple; discriminating collectors trust SGC more and are willing to pay more for cards in SGC slabs. Many ebay buyers are familiar with PSA from the newer stuff and aren't as well educated as people buying $3,000 cards in public auctions.

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Posted By: Neal Kane

is one of the big reasons. SGC had the forseight to assign provenance to cards that came from the collections of pioneers like Carter and Nagy. I own one Carter card, and the pedigree is pretty cool. I showed it to my brother (who has been out of the hobby for some time) and he agreed. PSA assigning a Gretzky/McNall or Mr X is not the same, imo.

Peter and Dan -- why even bother defending PSA to all the ninnies on this board? Most of them just like to whine like little girls, when the majority of these ninnies do not even collect SGC or PSA slabbed cards.

<<Many ebay buyers are familiar with PSA from the newer stuff and aren't as well educated as people buying $3,000 cards in public auctions.>>

huh? that seems fairly absurd.

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Posted By: JK

Neal,

The gretzky pedigree is slightly different, I agree. However, the Mr. X pedigree is exactly the same - its a collection from an alleged big name collector who wanted to remain anonymous. If he had put his actual name on the slab, there wouldnt be any difference at all.

Finally, you can argue that whoever Mr. X is, his name isnt as big as nagy, carter, etc. That is most likely true. However, the fact remains that Mastro could have had all of those collections pedigreed and graded by psa and chose to do so with sgc instead.

PSA has offered a pedigree service since at least 2004. This is from a Joe Orlando newsletter that I found on their website (dated 2004):

"PSA will also offer a new “Pedigree” service that will allow collectors to personalize their labels. For example, the John Doe Collection may appear on the PSA label. In order to qualify for this service, each card and/or set will be evaluated on a case by case basis. This service will be reserved for “special” cards which must meet certain high-end or rare criteria. Please call for details. These Pedigree submissions must be approved in advance so call customer service today for more details."

In other words, given the choice to have a psa pedigree or an sgc pedigree, mastro chose sgc for both the carter and nagy collections. Apparently mastro must feel that sgc holds its own with respect to prices realized.

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Posted By: Steve

Neal, I disagree. Matt's "uneducated" comment was likely taken out of context. My interpretation of that post is those that buy PSA are "not as knowledgeable in prewar collections". This imo is not an inaccurate opinion.

Incidentally, your post is unclear as to who are the simpletons and whiners within this thread, The PSA or SGC collectors? Steve F

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Posted By: Matt

Let me clarify; it was indeed a terse comment. In my observation, major auction houses are using SGC more for pre-war because it brings in more money at major auction. On ebay, I don't believe SGC brings in more money then PSA so I was explaining my theory as to why, on ebay, PSA may bring equal money to SGC, but not at major auction.

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Posted By: Charlie Barokas

Josh,

Whats up... Mr. X was never added to the slab but rather identified in the description of the auction. You will not find a single PSA label with Mr. X on it. FYI, there are a few Cracker Jack's with Charlie Sheen's Pedigree.

Best

Charlie

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Posted By: JK

Hey Charlie - If that is the case, then I retract my comments about the Mr X collection. Nevertheless, the rest of my comments remain true - PSA offers a pedigree service, the auction houses have a choice as to which service to use, and have chosen SGC.

That tells me that any perceived gap between the prices realized on sgc and psa cards, all other things being equal, is minimal.

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Posted By: JimB

They both are willing to pedigree important collections. It is a non-issue.

I don't consider myself a PSA advocate, but I find the unending PSA bashing here to be tedious, and as a whole, not in the interest of the hobby. It seems many here wish PSA would just go out of business, which I think would be terrible. If there is no healthy competition among grading companies, we would be in serious trouble.
JimB

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Posted By: Fred C

PSA has also pedigreed the "Harris" collection of T206 cards. What a JOKE. People would love PSA if they used the same subjective nature grading their collections as they did grading the Harris collection. How do cards with creases garnish 5 or 6 grades. Do you want examples of trimmed cards in holders, check out that pedigreed pile of crap. Ok, so it all wasn't bad but the fact that they seemd subjectively partial in the grades really was a turn off. If you enjoy reading comedy's and dramas then go ahead and look at that auction catalog for that collection.

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Posted By: Tom Nieves

"You will not find a single PSA label with Mr. X on it."

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Posted By: Charlie Barokas

Tom,

My bad. You win this round.

CB

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Posted By: B.C.Daniels

Hey Charlie! it's 60 degrees here so cracker box 1300 sq. feet houses made in 1962 still sell for $800k!

What's up!

http://www.swfinefoods.com/products/vegetables.html


get your short game under a 7 and let's rock!







BcD

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Posted By: JK

Thanks for posting that Tom - I thought I was right about good 'ol Mr. X.

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Posted By: JC

I knew Mr. X.
Mr. X was a friend of mine.
And believe me gentlemen, you are no Mr. X.

Seriously though, Mr. X is deceased and only a limited portion of his cards were ever sent in to PSA for grading. I do know who he was, but if I divulged his identity, it could open me up for legal action by a surviving relative.

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Posted By: B.C.Daniels

"when your number comes up.....the lid comes down"


PSA (CU)'s stock is over valued by about double!





BcD

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Posted By: Jantz

I saw this card up for auction & it made me think of this post immediately. Isn't this the player whose image is on a M116 with the wrong name printed on the card (Sharpe #234 maybe?). Can't remember exactly. If so, this poor man must be related to Rodney Dangerfield.


Jantz

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Posted By: Mark T

you are talking about on M116 card....






Edited to say: This guy is named Sharpe on the card.

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Posted By: Jantz

If I squint alittle, they kinda look alike. Yep, thats him. Poor guy, they put the wrong name on one card, then PSA decides to change his name to Bill.

This post was just for a laugh.

Jantz

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Posted By: jay wolt

Jantz - PSA didn't change his name to "Bill"
The Hinchman of Toledo was Bill Hinchman
Here is his Major League stats

http://www.baseball-reference.com/h/hinchbi01.shtml

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Posted By: dan mckee

I have never had a problem with PSA and my opinion is that they are flawless! Great turn around times, perfect grades, and the best darn President a company could have! Dan Mckee

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Posted By: Jantz

Brothers, one named Harry & one named Bill.


Jantz