A dilemma....

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Posted By: George

Hi Everyone,
I recently purchased a T206 from eBay and just discovered yesterday that the card was trimmed. I payed what I would consider a substantial amount of the money for the card although I was willing to pay the price for the card with the belief that it was unaltered.

I was doing a search via the T206 price estimator and discovered that the identical card which I purchased was purchased a few months back by the seller. The original ebay listing clearly states that the card has been trimmed and the auction which I purchased had no indication that the card was altered.

I contacted the seller and sent him the link. This "honest" seller proceeded to tell me that I have no proof that he had prior knowledge and continues to send me condescending one liners like "still waiting..."

I apologize for bringing this up here versus something like ebay or paypal resolution center but wanted to get feedback from some of the folks here upfront to see if there are any suggestions. I don't think my claims are unwarranted and I'm very disappointed that an individual claiming to be an honest seller would act in such a manner.

I'm tempted to send the link to the card in question but really don't want to ream out this seller.

George

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Posted By: Mark T

If you paid by Paypal then you can file a claim. This has never happened to me but i know a collector that received a card that had a pen mark on it and filed a claim which he won.

The only thing, you may get a negative from the seller.

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Posted By: T206Collector

...the two links -- your auction and the one in which the seller acquired the card.

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Posted By: Steve

Your claim time is limited. You should file asap.

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Posted By: Jim VB

I recently purchased a card which turned out to be trimmed. The seller told me "Sorry. S*** out of luck!" I filed with Paypal. They told me to return the card with tracking information and notify them when it had been delivered. They refunded the full price, including shipping.

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Posted By: Frank Wakefield

Time is CRITICAL, as mentioned above.

Save copies, not links, of where he purchased the card trimmed, plus your auction.

Tell the seller that you have saved those copies, and that you are returning the purchase, with delivery confirmation, at the post office 3pm Monday, unless he refunds prior to then. I doubt he'll refund, then you'd have both the money and the card. But he might to avoid the hassle.

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Posted By: Mark

If you didn't use Paypal, I suggest that you bring your evidence to the attention of ebay itself. It looks like you've caught the dealer red handed, misrepresenting the card. If the dealer simply forgot about or didn't believe the description when he bought the card, then he owes you, and now the card buying public, an explanation.

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Posted By: peter chao

If the Seller gives you a negative with Ebay, dispute it, Ebay should side with you in this type of situation.

Peter C.

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Posted By: Richard L.

"I'm tempted to send the link to the card in question but really don't want to ream out this seller."

C'mon George, it appears he deserves a reaming

Could you please post both links, perhaps some board members have had an experience with this seller and have additional info to give you.

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Posted By: leon

I agree with Richard L......If this seller knowingly did this then we would like to know about it (at least I would). A mistake is one thing, and can be rectified, but then not making good on it is another thing....if, in fact, it was a mistake on the sellers part. It's a pretty small hobby and reputations mean a lot.....

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Posted By: George

Guys,
Thank you for the quick responses! I will file a claim via Paypal and print out hard copies of both auctions(it was a T206 hindu back....it's a shame because it's a nice looking card had it not been for it being trimmed at the bottom). For those of you who asked about the links, I prefer to send it to you in a separate email for your information and will do so shortly. I purchased the card at the end of September so I believe I'm still within the timeframe to file a claim. Thanks again for everyone's feedback.

George

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Posted By: George

I wanted to thank the folks on the board for their help relating to the trimmed T206 I purchased a few months ago with the seller's knowledge. Paypal has found that the seller was at fault and that I will be reimbursed for the price paid for this item. FYI...it was a Fred Clarke (bat pose) with a Hindu back.

Shortly after I filed the complaint, the seller started putting the following verbiage in his auctions: "I guarantee that this card is vintage and not a reprint. Otherwise, the card is being sold in the condition as shown." I'll admit that he does have some nice cards but due to this incident, I refuse to ever purchase another card from him.

Anyway, thank you for the folks who helped me out on this.

George

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Posted By: Fred C

George,

Are you going to out the seller to us so we can all be careful and aware of the sellers tactics?

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Posted By: Steve

I'm sorry this has happened to you. You say you bought this card at the end of september? I was under the impression that paypal allows 45 days and you seem to be past that.

Try anyway.


Good luck


Being the nosy guy that i am I'd like the email outing the scum too.

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Posted By: Greg Theberge

"If the Seller gives you a negative with Ebay, dispute it, Ebay should side with you in this type of situation."

Peter,

Please don't make a recommendation to someone if you have no accurate basis for your remark. Ebay will probably ignore the whole thing entirely, and not "side with you". "Should" is not something to base one's decision on, if it's an important decision.

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Posted By: Brad Green

Search eBay for the text "I guarantee that this card is vintage and not a reprint. Otherwise, the card is being sold in the condition as shown." You'll likely find the eBay seller with whom he had problems.

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Posted By: Brian

<<For those of you who asked about the links, I prefer to send it to you in a separate email for your information and will do so shortly. >>

Why not post the links to better inform the board?

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Posted By: George

Folks,
Thank you all. I honestly prefer to send an email with the seller's id versus posting it on the board. The guy really does bug me and I have NEVER had issues with any seller of T206 cards however many other buyers have been very happy with their cards as is obvious from his feedback.

I will out his auction if he decides to bring the Clarke card back onto his listings and does not state that it is trimmed.

Steve, I was able to get my money back from the seller and from my latest posting he has now changed the verbiage on his auctions so that he covers himself if someone comes back and states that any of the cards are trimmed. That said, I have seen many of his other listings and the ungraded ones do not appear to be altered although I'm far from an expert.

I've posted the images of this card for everyone's reference. It is a nice card other but is trimmed at the bottom.

George

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Posted By: Steve

great! lol next time I should look at the dates posted huh?

glad it worked out for you.


Steve

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Posted By: George

Ok...I'm guessing I'm going to get asked this question several times so I have posted the auction the seller won (the first one) and the 2nd auction which I won a few months later. I'm not sure if the images on the auction I won are on this link but if not, it is evident from my previous post that it's the same card. So much for me not outing the seller/auction but I'm in agreement that the board should be aware of this.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250129712762
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230174489293

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Posted By: George

Folks,
As an FYI the card has been reposted but the seller has at least now stated that there is evidence of trimming. Take care.

George

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Posted By: David Smith

From the looks of it, the seller KNOWS about grading companies and has common T206's graded. So, I would be leery of ANY ungraded card this guy is selling.

Just my two cents,

David

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Posted By: Richard L.

He has relisted the Clarke with "evidence of trimming" in the listing.

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Posted By: Rick McQuillan

He also has a neg for a trimmed card from last August

Rick

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Posted By: Brian

thanks for posting the links, its ironic that the first four letters of his ebay name are "sham"

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Posted By: Lee Behrens

I am surprised that the seller even gave you a hassle on the refund since you paid less than what he had into the card. The whole thing is really strange, seemed like there was more activity to get the card and try to sell it with the trim notation then without.

By the way, I agree with George's statement toward Peter C. If you had any experience trying to get anything done through ebay you would realize they will ignore it 99% of the time. There whole basis is they are a middle man and not responsible for the auctiions themselves.


Lee

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Posted By: Brian McQueen

Brian - So what's the point you're trying to make there exactly?

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Posted By: peter chao

Lee,

I was really just addressing George's concern about feedback. In extreme situations like this, if the buyer receives negative feedback, E-bay would listen and be likely to modify. I did not mean to imply anything more than this.

Peter C.

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Posted By: Greg Theberge

Peter,

Then with all due respect you shouldn't make a comment or give advise based on a whim. Lee is exactly right, and I've run into it myself. ebay for the most part doesn't care less regarding feedback, which is why someone with three hundred negative feedbacks (and more, a lot more) is still allowed to continue to sell. As long as they're getting their money, it doesn't matter.

Greg (not George)

edited to include that the one (retaliated) negative feedback I have (given after the one and only negative, but honest and well deserved, feedback I ever left) was left by an ebayer who currently has 828 negative feedbacks to his name. Think I got anywhere trying to dispute this? no

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Posted By: Lee Behrens

Sorry Greg,

My 2 negatives are also retaliation negatives that were warranted. If I needed to check feedback and there are negatives involved I read them, if there is a pattern I stay away, if they are isolated I bid.

Peter, you try to give your side but you still use the word "should". Ebay is not about doing the right thing they are about what Greg said money. That being said it is a great avenue for the general public to sell things, but also for the scum to take advantage of the honest people. I would be nice to think that ebay is protecting the honest guy, but it just is not the case.

Lee

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Posted By: howard

Am I missing something or is there some drawback to contesting negative feedback? It seems to me that the worst that could happen is that Ebay ignores you and you are no worse off than you were before.

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Posted By: Steve

I was under the impression that the only way to get feedback erased was mutally?


Ebay says it will not edit or delete feedback once left.


So I would have to say that they do 'ignore' such requests. Should they? No but the should do alot of things that they don't.


JMO


Steve

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Howard -- there is no drawback to disputing negative feedback. However, there is no point, either. I once left a negative for someone who was selling child pornography over ebay, got him kicked off ebay -- but could not get my negative erased.

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Posted By: Tim Newcomb

The two links indicate that the "sham" seller sold the card to George (claiming it was unaltered) for less ($136) than he paid for it advertised as trimmed ($153)-- so it appears he's not only dishonest but also totally inept.

Seriously, George, you did the right thing by posting the auctions. This guy went way over the line-- he knew the card was trimmed when he bought it from an honest seller who pointed to the trim, and then he tried to sell it untrimmed and refused to make good with you-- he deserves outing.

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Posted By: howard

Good grief, Jeff. I'm glad you got you got this guy kicked off. Do you know if he was prosecuted? Does ebay have an obligation to report the guy to the police or the feds?

I understand it's probably futile to contest negative feedback. It just seemed that a couple of the responses made it seem like it would be detrimental to even try.

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Posted By: David Smith

Steve,

eBay cn and does remove Negative feedback. There is a scam artist here in Indiana that sells on eBay under th name ACOFIND. Over the last three years, they have listed and sold numerous FAKE or REPRINTED items. I ahve been trying to get them kicked off but to no avail. I have also tried to get the police involved but since I haven't won anythign from them, then no dice either.

About a month ago, a person on this board, Ibuyfakecards or youareascamartist, one of the super heroes, bid on and won an obvious fake baseball item from this seller. The good guy left a Negative feedback. ACOFIND protested, saying the good guy bid on but never paid for the item and a coupld of days later, the Negative feedback was gone. eBay withdrew it and ACOFIND is STILL listing fake items.

He has more cardboard advertising signs on now and also a Mickey Mantle sign and a 1951 Yankees team photo. So don't believe eBay when they say THEY don't remove Negative feedback, only buyers and sellers do it mutually, because THAT is not true.

David

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Posted By: George

Thank you for all the responses. Paypal has been very professional at handling this matter and although it took a little longer than I expected, I'm very happy that I got my money back. Thanks again to everyone! Take care.

George

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Howard, to ebay's credit they stopped the guy's auction almost immediately. I never received any communication from them as to what occurred next. The seller clearly knew that I was the one that outed him (I had promised him I would turn him in) and he sent me some threatening emails later which I ignored.