756*

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Posted By: MVSNYC

discuss

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Posted By: DMcD

No joy in Mudville.

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Posted By: BcD

3-2 count and the guy who caught it had 12 body guards take him out of the bleachers!

boy these Apple powerbooks rock!



BcD

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Posted By: CN

There is a lot to be discussed but all I will remember about Bonds is his striking out against John Franco in game 2 against the Mets to end the game in the 2000 playoffs. I think history will play itself out and show how much of a loser Bonds is. CN

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Posted By: Turner Engle

Absolutley amazing!

The guy who caught the 756 ball was literally being pushed out by the officers so he could get escorted.

This record will stand for a long, long time.

Turner Engle

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Posted By: jay behrens

Bonds didn't say much, but if you weren't touch at the end when thanked his dad, you have no heart.

Jay

The richest person is not the one who has the most, but the one who needs the least.

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Posted By: steve

* !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Posted By: paulstratton

Hank Aaron took the high road and showed a lot of class...unlike Selig. Glad it's over.

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Posted By: JK

"This record will stand for a long, long time."

This record will stand for far fewer years than Aarons record. ARod, assuming he doesnt decide to retire early or get injured (big ifs, I admit), will most likely break the record w/in ten years. Aaron held the record for 33 years.

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Posted By: jay behrens

Did you honestly believe Selig had any class? He's a used car salesman, ferchrissake

As much as everyone wants to make Bonds the villain, the true villain in this story is Bud Selig and he is the one that should catching all the heat. He created the situation that exists today.

Jay

The richest person is not the one who has the most, but the one who needs the least.

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Posted By: Jim Dale

756* is appropriate....sure wish he hit it last night I had nice seats dang it and was all ready to ebay my ticket stubs...j/k

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Posted By: jay behrens

Josh, good to see you have a realistic expectation of A-Rod's production. I want to pimp slap these idiots that keep saying he is only 5 years behind Bonds. I'm guessing these guys failed math because that means he has to average 51 HRs/year and keep pace with Bonds production until he retires. A-Rod has averaged only (lol) 46 HRs/year for his career, so it's highly unlikely he'll have 51 later in his career.

I also wouldn't count A-Rod out of the roids derby. Olympic athletes having been cheating and beating drug testing for 30 years on a far smaller budget than A-Rod has. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if he is using the latest and greatest in undectable drugs.

As far as I'm concerned, todays athletes are all juices until proven otherwise. But I don't really care either because if everyone is juiced, they are playing on a level playing field.

Jay

The richest person is not the one who has the most, but the one who needs the least.

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Posted By: Charlie Barokas

As far as I'm concerned, todays athletes are all juices until proven otherwise. But I don't really care either because if everyone is juiced, they are playing on a level playing field.

This is an interesting quote. I think there is some hypocrisy as it relates to altering baseball cards but I am going to let it sit for awhile before commenting.

CB

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

I now think Bonds will get in the Hall of Fame on the first ballot provided the legal problems peter out. Only because Hank Aaron passed the torch...if Aaron had stayed mum I think Bonds may have had some problems getting (And he still may), but I think Aaron made the road a bit easier for him.

Jay, everyone knows that homerun hitters don't hit their peak until they turn 36.

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Posted By: jay behrens

Charlie, not sure how it relates to altered cards, so I guess I'll have to see what you see later.

Jay

The richest person is not the one who has the most, but the one who needs the least.

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Posted By: MVSNYC

matt murphy caught the ball...

22 yr. old mets fan from queens, gotta love that!

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Posted By: JK

I agree Jay that 5 years is unrealistic. Now, if he has a couple of 60 or 70 homer years like Bonds, who knows. Of course, nothing like 70 HRs to raise questions about steriod use. Personally, I dont believe that all athletes or ARod for that matter are juiced - ARod has been a consistent HR hitter, no huge production spikes (ala Bonds late in his career), etc. Other than this being the steriod era, I think the "evidence" of ARod using steriods is non-existent (and yes, I realize that Canseco is now making some statements, but you have to question why it is he now raises those points but made no mention of them in his book - my guess: he sees an opportunity to make more money).

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Posted By: Andrew

Barry is the kindest, ideal role model to have ever played the game. I'm glad this record is unquestioned and that there is overwhelming joy for his accomplishment.

"Take your life in your own hands and what happens? A terrible thing: no one to blame." -- Erica Jong

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Posted By: Charlie Barokas

Jay,

You have stated many times that no matter how many people say its ok to alter cards that it doesn't make it acceptable.

But, for your boy Barry, if everybody is doing it...it seems to be acceptable.

If it is proven that Barry used any kind of steriods would you be for wiping out his records or some kind of asterix etc or anything in between.

FYI, many old timers, Aarron, Frank Robinson etc have said wipe out the stats if he is proven guilty.

CB

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Posted By: jay behrens

A possible explanation for no spikes in A-Rod' performance is that he has been using since day one. Bonds most likely didn't start until later in his career.

Jay

The richest person is not the one who has the most, but the one who needs the least.

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Posted By: Brett

Bonds should enjoy it while it lasts because A-Rod will beat it for sure if he stays healthy. Hes 32 years old, so lets say he plays 10 more years. He need to average less than 30 HRs a year for 10 years to break it. Hes going to hit 50 this year and probably average 40-ish for the next couple anyways. I'd say he has a good shot to hit 800 HRs.

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Posted By: Al C.risafulli

I was catching up on my message board soap operas, and missed the damn home run.




I'm thrilled anyway.

-Al

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Posted By: David Smith

First off, if I were a clean (drug free) and self-respecting Pitcher, I wouldn't give Bonds ANYTHING to hit. Furthermore, I might actually try and plunk him. I mean, it is my livelihood he is messing with. If he hits a Home Run, that goes against my ERA and I might possibly lose the game. When arbitration or Free Agency comes up, being the one who gave up the record Home Run IS NOT going to endear me to my employers or get me any more money. In fact, it is going to work against me because it will say that I am prone to giving up Home Runs and my ERA and Won-Loss record was affected.

Bonds was a good ball player before using Steroids and was probably going to the Hall of Fame anyway. Why take drugs to enhance yourself?? If I were a Pitcher who was young or good enough to make the show but was hanging on for my baseball life, why would I pitch to Bonds?? Nothing good is going to come from it.

Furthermore, since I am a purist, if I owned a ML Baseball team and Bonds was coming to town and on the verge of breaking the record, I would try my best to keep him from hitting the record breaker against my team. I wouldn't want it to be remembered that he hit it against my team and in my stadium. At the very least, I would ask my Pitchers to NOT give him anything to hit. Whether they would or not would be up to them.

Taking things farther, I would try and keep people out of the Outfield seats. Why?? Because I wouldn't want to hire extra security to police the area and I wouldn't want to be held liable for what the fans might do to each other. In fact, I would try and allow NOBODY to attend the games, media included. Having the least amount of people see the record being broken and no video of it for future generations would be worth the lost revenue to me.

If Bonds hadn't cheated, then he wouldn't be breaking the record to begin with. If he wasn't breaking the record to begin with, then there would be nothing to remember. Having very few people see the "accomplishment" would be as close to "nothing to remember" as I could get as an Owner.

Hopefully, Barry Bonds will be found guilty of tax evasion and perjury, sentenced to jail, fined and put on baseball's restricted list, just like Joe Jackson and Pete Rose.

As far as Bud Selig goes, I don't like him either. He has had numerous opportunities to do what was "in the best interests of baseball" but hasn't. This includes things other than the Barry Bonds fiasco.

David

Edited to add, Bobby Bonds wasn't a very nice human being either. A surly alcoholic with a racist chip on his shoulder.

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Posted By: Jim Dale

A-Rod has an ounce or two of class. Sorry I just don't care for Barry; his denial of the roids useage is pathetic. A-Rod has denied it as well but he does not show the classic signs, weight gains, etc of a roid user. I hope he can continue to ave.46 a year...he catches Barry in 7 years easy that way and we can put this sad era behind us.

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Posted By: JK

Jay,

I understand that and agree. I just dont think there is anything to link him with steriods or that would support such an assumption at this point.

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Posted By: jay behrens

Charlie, you really do need to read everything I write. This will be the 3rd time in the past few days I've said this, so I'll say this again:

I don't have a problem with any sort of card alteration as long as it is fully disclosed. The Just So Burkett is a perfect example. I have no problem with that card.

What I have a problem with is people who do this without disclosure and people who claim that certain forms are acceptable and don't need to be disclosed even when most of the hobby doesn't think it's acceptable or at least wants to know about it so they can make and educated buying decision.

Jay



The richest person is not the one who has the most, but the one who needs the least.

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Posted By: Charlie Barokas

Jay,

And Bonds is for full disclosure? Common Jay, you are following the playbook exactly, at least be consistent.

CB

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

Charlie, give it a rest...Now you're trying to use the Barry Bonds situation against Jay in your argument???

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Posted By: Charlie Barokas

Dan,

Consistency would be nice from someone who admits to striving for brutal truth.

CB

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Posted By: jay behrens

David, it's wonderful to dream of a utopian world, but it will never exist, so you need to deal with reality. The reality is that most professional athletes in any sport are using PEDs. Hell, golfers are now being accused.

If anyone thinks that PED use magically stopped when MLB instituted drug testing, you are living in a fantasy world. All you have to do is look at the Tour De France to see what impact testing has. NONE!!! They just look for new ways to beat the tests. And they more than like have a smaller budget than what A-Rod makes in a year.

PEDs are here to stay and it will be the rare athlete that can make it clean because there is too much money at stake and the less talented will always look for an edge on the more talented which means the more talented also need to do what the less talented are doing to stay ahead of them.

Would I like to see a world of athletics thriving under the Olympic dream? Yes. Do think it will ever happen? No

Jay

The richest person is not the one who has the most, but the one who needs the least.

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Posted By: Charlie Barokas

Jay,

Now the excuse for cheating with PED's is money? I guess there is no money in trimming baseball cards.

CB

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Posted By: jay behrens

Next you'll be telling me that since I'm against alterations that marinating and grilling my pork chop goes against the principles I stand for in card altering. You really are stretching.

Jay

The richest person is not the one who has the most, but the one who needs the least.

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Posted By: Charlie Barokas

Jay,

And you are not stretching in saying that erasing pencil is equivilant to trimming?

Consistency, thats all I ask for.

CB

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Posted By: Charlie Barokas

Jay,

Bonds cheated and you want to blame it on the competition and all the money at stake? For the record I love Barry Bonds and I think alot more goes into hitting a baseball than steriods. But I will take the other-side again to make you think your arguments through.

CB

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Posted By: Al C.risafulli

What if you trim the fat off your pork chops?

-Al

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Posted By: Charlie Barokas

Al,

How about a piece of paper stuck to the Pork Chops? Do you have to eat them with the Paper or can you safely remove the paper without altering the swine?

CB

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Posted By: Al C.risafulli

Depends whether you remove the paper with water or oil and vinegar.

-Al

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Posted By: paulstratton

I can't believe nobody has blamed George Bush for the whole steroid era yet. Maybe tomorrow...

If they didn't walk Bonds all the freaking time, he would have 900 by now. Babe Ruth didn't play against Blacks...Hank Aaron didn't face relief specialists...Bonds took steroids...it is what it is.

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Posted By: Jim Dale

Well actually I was telling my dad earlier how its all Bush's fault that Bonds wasn't arrested earlier in the season to prevent this kind of thing from happening....I mean isn't he responsible to make sure folks are caught and brought to justice? Its not like Bonds' was hiding in a cave or anything.

Ok all joking aside there was a positive comment on this thread about Bonds that rings very true and my sarcasm and dislike for Bonds shouldn't knock that he is a gifted athlete. Its true he earned many MVP honors, he played great through out many years and is deserving of true greatness....all that I agree with. After that I think he juiced it up to make sure he could hit the most HR's in a season and the most of all time. That is why I can't wait for AROD to unseat him on the later.

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Posted By: Cobby33

Just got back...It was awesome!
I figured I made a mistake by coming on here to discuss, thinking that for 24 hours, maybe we Giants fans could enjoy it without all the bulls*it. Guess not.

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Posted By: S Gross

Somewhere Al Downing is smiling ............................

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Posted By: Silver King

The one thing that would have been great is if the Mets fan who caught the ball would have thrown the ball back on the field. hahahaha. He would have been a fool and it would have cost him a lot of money, but at least he would have made the Letterman show and showed some true respect for the game.

I just think it's too bad that Bonds went the steroids route when he didn't have to. I live in Sacramento CA which is only 90 miles from the ballpark and I've been watching the Giants since the clear fence at Candlestick. Frankly, Bonds makes me sick. I pretty much stopped going to the games because of him and the fans that cheer him on. The best game to catch is a day game because he's usually sitting on the bench.

I am a purist and refused to watch the game tonight and found out by Yahoo's main page that he broke the record. In my book he cheated and got at least a 10% boost from steroids so my tally has him at 680 home runs. He has a long way to go. Hopefully A-Rod is clean and will break the record. Albert Pujols is my pick to break A-Rods record.

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Posted By: David Smith

To all;

I look at Barry Bonds like a race car and myself like a regular passenger car. A race car is MUCH different than a passenger car. Both are automobiles but both are made for different purposes.

I can never do the things athletically that Barry Bonds has done. Am I jealous, YES!!! But that is life.

Now, comparing one type of race car to a similiar type is a better thing to do. Barry Bonds was better than the average Major League player but he took steroids to improve himself. He is doing things now that he was doing 10 years ago and for an athlete, especially one his age, that is not normal. Just as a 10 year-old race car performing better now than when new is not normal.

Bonds SHOULD have slowed down and his performance SHOULD have dropped off by now but it hasn't and THAT doesn't make you people wonder why? I mean if a 10 year-old NASCAR was entered into a race next weekend wouldn't that make you say, "huh"? Now, if that race car performed as well or better than the new cars wouldn't that make you question things even more?? Wouldn't you as a race fan want an inquiry and wouldn't you be upset about possible cheating?? If you would, then why is the Barry Bonds situation any different??

To Paul Stratton. If Bonds didn't take steroids and other performance enhancing drugs, he wouldn't have hit as many Home Runs. If he hadn't hit as many Home Runs, the Pitchers would have pitched to him more instead of Walking him. If they pitched to him more, there is more chance that he would have made more Outs. Because of that, his Home Runs, Runs, RBI's, Batting Average, Slugging Percentage, On Base Percentage, OPS and Total Bases would have been less and his team wouldn't have won as many games. Combine all of that together and he wouldn't have won as many MVP's and he wouldn't have been paid as much.

Also, just think if you were a clean player who finished second in MVP voting behind Bonds. Wouldn't YOU be upset?? You work your tail off and possibly have the best season you will ever have and get beat out of an award by a cheater. Not only might that affect that player's wallet (he could have a clause in his contract for winning an MVP Award) but if that player was a border line Hall Of Fame candidate, he might not make it in.

Or what about the 2002 baseball season?? The Giants went to the World Series and lost to the Angels. The problem there, though, is the Giants were the Wild Card team and finished just 3 1/2 games ahead of the Dodgers. Bonds was the MVP of the NL that season. What if Bonds hadn't juiced?? He probably wouldn't hve put up the stats that he did and the Dodgers would have probably gone to the Play-Offs instead of the Giants.

If I were a ML Baseball player and were clean, I would be ticked off at those who cheated, especially the ones who had the talent to succeed to begin with. I would be even more upset if I were clean and lost out on an Award to a cheater or if my team lost out on going to the Play-Offs.

Bonds cheating not only hurt himself physically but it hurt other players, teams, cities and history. If you don't think so, then can you name the players who finished SECOND in MVP voting or the teams that finished right behind the one that was the Wild Card team??

David

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Posted By: Cobby33

Like it or not, Bonds holds the record for the most home runs in Major League Baseball...Ever.

If his "cheating" were as clear as all of the/you critics say it is, do you really think he would still be playing? And if you all think that MLB is just letting it go- take a look at Selig's statement tonight. He would want nothing more than to ban Bonds- but he can't because there's no evidence. And if you think that MLB just lets cheating happen, consider Pete Rose and Joe Jackson, both banned.

P.S. Who here has seen Bonds "cheat," i.e. who has seen him use a substance SPECIFICALLY banned by MLB? Didn't think so...

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Posted By: Andrew

That was Al Downing's claim to fame, so not sure he's smiling.

"Take your life in your own hands and what happens? A terrible thing: no one to blame." -- Erica Jong

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Posted By: Jim Dale

cobby...sorry you take it so hard that many can't ignore his weight gain, size difference, and the fact he eagerly did business with a "group" that specialized in making performance enhancing drugs that could not be detected at the time.

Was he caught - no - you are righ - he was not caught. That is simply because the MLBPA refused to allow testing for so long and when they finally got forced too he managed to change his ways. Sorry but in my book he deserves an * next to his name forever. In my book he's a cheater just like McGuire, Sosa, and many others of this era. Sad....hopefully now that he's got his record and soon will be retired we can move on.

Besides as a Giants fan (I'm not) you guys might get the next HR King soon anyway....A-ROD for SF.

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Posted By: Sean

Hank Aaron will always be the TRUE home run king

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Posted By: David Smith

Cobby,

Do you remember the quote about pornography?? The one that goes "I might not know the definition of pornography but I know it when I see it"?? That is Barry Bonds, steroid abuse and cheating. I might not be able to tell you how he cheated but I sure know it when I see. Like it or not, the circumstantial evidence points to Bonds cheating. Whether he ultimately gets away with it is another thing.

I would LOVE for an endocrinologist to explain to me how a person's feet grow from a size 10 to a size 13 1/2 after the age of 27. What disease or anything else could cause that?? Same thing about his head growing like it has.

There is also this old adage, "It ain't cheating if you get away with it".

Bonds (and other players) have gotten away with cheating because their Union has supported and protected them. Once "normal" Performance Enhancing Drugs were outlawed and testing started, then designer steroids took their place. Also, HGH and some of these other substances still don't have an accurate test to catch the cheaters.

If Bud Selig had any testicles, he would have suspended suspected cheats a long time ago and sent this whole mess to the court system. Players and the Union could lie and stall Selig but they couldn't the Criminal Justice system.

Bonds has ONLY testified to the Grand Jury (was that under oath?) but has NOT testified in any court room and has not been cross examined. He also did not testify in the Congressional Hearings. Raphael Palmiero did and look what happened to him. Mark McGwire was there but did not really testify and look at him and his Hall Of Fame votes.

Bonds' Attorneys sued the Authors of "Game of Shadows" but NOT because of the steroid allegations therein but for some other reasons. Same goes for his Mistress. She was sued because of the things she said but then the suit was dropped. I can't wait for her interview in the October issue of PlayBoy Magazine and to see what Bonds and his Attorney's do after that.

In the real world, Cobby, if I wrote a book and in it I said YOU were a pedophile (or some other nasty thing which wasn't true) would YOU sue ME?? I think you would, unless of course, what I wrote was TRUE!!!

I don't think Bonds is any different. He makes a LOT of money and has the resources to sue. Allegations of cheating hurt his marketability (even more than his surly attitude do) and THAT hurts his pocketbook. Bonds cares about two main things, himself and money. He was ticked that McGwire and Sosa were getting all of the attention in 1997 and that they were going to get big contracts. So, he resorted to cheating.

In the future, I think we will find out that both McGwire and Sosa were also abusing PEDs and then we will have a cheater cheating because he wanted to outdue two other cheaters. This is a slippery slope once it got started and the Baseball Comissioners could have stopped it once it was found out that McGwire was using Andro. But they didn't. But if they had, then we probably wouldn't be talking about Bonds breaking the record right now.

David

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Posted By: paulstratton

David,

If Hank Aaron can accept it, why can't you? It was HIS record that Bonds broke, not yours. I agree with you that Bonds more than likely took something, exactly what I have no idea. If he played for your favorite team(Cubs?Whitesox?), would you feel the same way? I'm guessing you wouldn't. We can all go on and on with the "If this.." or "If that..." stuff.

If McGuire and Sosa didn't roid up, would we be talking about baseball at all?
If Luis Gonzalez wasn't yoked up on something, would he have been able to muscle that ball over Jeter's head?
If Clemens wasn't juiced, would he still be pitching?

...and on and on...it's too late to go back and try to change the past. Unfortunately, we are probably stuck with those numbers. All baseball can do is try to clean it up and move on, I know I have.

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Posted By: jay behrens

You people crack me up. You act as if Bonds took steroids in a vacuum. He didn't. He is supposedly just one of many that took PEDs, so it's not like had much of an advantage over others outside his raw talent.

For those of you that prosteletize about how much steroids improves a players stat, Please...PLEASE!!!...site one source that backs up your assertation with scientific fact. The experts on steroids have no idea what impact steroids have on performance outside that fact they allow a person to recover faster so they can train harder. So please stop acting as if you know how steroids impact performance when the experts don't even know.

Did Bonds cheat? Probably. Have all others MLBers cheated? most likely. So what's the big deal? Everyone is trying to get an edge. At that level, players are hypercompetative and with the money involved, most people will do anything to get that money.

As I've said before, Selig is the real villain here and you should be laying the blame where it properly belongs.

Jay

The richest person is not the one who has the most, but the one who needs the least.