Mastro Auctions Being Investigated by the FBI

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Posted By: P Spaeth

Scott since we are so predictable, you know the next question, where did you read that?

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Posted By: JM

Investigations can go on w/o the president knowing. Ever hear of the ‘get a fish to talk and fry the other bigger fish’ theory? that seems to be how the government operates at times. there may also be ethical walls that prevent X in Mastro knowing what Y in Mastro knows. I worked @ a large law firm that dealt w/large public cos. who were often the subject of FBI and SEC investigations as well as individuals who were often the subject of DOJ, FBI and/or IRS investigations. In more cases than not, X department/people knew of the investigations but Y department/people (who were HIGHER UP than X) did NOT. There were people within that large law firm who knew about Cases A-Z AND people in that same law firm who had NO idea bout Cases A-Z and would NEVER know about them due to ethical walls.

There’s also the issue that sometimes the government ‘works behind the scenes’ so to speak. They don’t always come up to you in their nice suits and ties and say ‘hi, would you like to sit and have a chit chat?’ anyone who has dealt w/a government agency (FBI, IRS- 2 of my favs lol) knows that often times, by the time YOU find out about the investigation, they’ve been observing you for quite awhile. Perhaps Doug/other Mastro employees were told NOT to speak out about this matter. Notice mastro’s absence on this thread? Notice the apparent absence of a libel suit against the paper?

Btw, it strikes me as hypocritical to bash reporters for ‘hearsay’ yet not bash others for engaging in similar conduct. Why do we accept someone relaying a convo he had w/Doug as being factual/not hearsay yet anything printed in the paper is obviously wrong/hearsay/unworthy of discussion or credence?

I have no opinion on the matter other than if the allegations are proven and correct procedure follows, I hope punishments are doled out. If the allegations are not proven, I hope the company’s name will be cleared. Isn’t that what the grand old US of A is all about?

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Posted By: Tom Boblitt

I'm not a lawyer but I did sleep at a Holiday Inn Express last night.......

Those are some HEAVY allegations about Mastro that I'd assume you'd be a little more discreet in doling out. I know people have some strong feelings about ALL the auction houses, but geez.....

Seems like statements like yours might be litigatable.....is that a word lawyers?

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Posted By: leon

Please put your full name by your post. If you don't it will be deleted....the policy is say what you want to but put your name by it. It's 1:45 CST...at about 2:30 your post will go poof unless you make yourself fully known. I would ask the same if someone was having issues with you....thanks....leon luckey

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Posted By: P Spaeth

Litigable, I think.

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Posted By: leon

I am not a lawyer but my conversation with Doug Allen yesterday was first hand. I am sure you are not inferring it was hearsay. I try not to embellish the way Lichtman, Elkins, and Crandall do.....which is reprehensible....

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Leon, it's always nice to be described as reprehensible. Thanks for that. I suppose just reporting what was in the paper and providing some analsys is bad? I'll do my best to refrain from that in the future if it involves someone that you do business with.

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Posted By: leon

I thought when you used Mastro and Bin Laden in the same sentence it was pretty low...I think reprehensible is the most positive thing I could say about you. You should be disgraced at the way you have taken this sensationalist journalism and made it fact... warm regards

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Posted By: Scott Elkins

To be honest, I read about Mastro's relationship with the person from Mike O'Keeffe - I don't have his book here, as I loaned it out, but I even think he mentioned this in his book that a lot of people here dislike.

Tom - I KNEW someone would take my post the wrong way - I did NOT make those allegations - I simply read them! Please DO NOT put words in my mouth.

Also, YES I do NOT like Mastro Auctions, the same as many of you here do NOT like eBay sellers or others who alter cards! This board DOES have double standards on that issue however, as these nickel and dime ebay con artists are bashed, boycotted, etc. if there is a question with one of their auctions (which is the right thing to do). However, even after hearing first hand from Doug Allen last Winter about Mastro altering cards, some of you on this board try to make excuses for them - ie: Mastro ONLY takes out surface wrinkles, or this and that. This is hypocritical and BS!!! If you change the card, or any other item, to make it appear different than it was before, THIS is altering! Personally, I think a lot goes on at Mastro Auctions that I would not approve of (and many others in the Hobby). I KNOW there are a lot on this board who would like to sweep these things under the table, since it is Mastro Auctions especially. I am one of the minority here - I would LOVE to see ALL of Mastro Auctions' wrong doings brought to light. I am a true collector and don't care what that would do to the value of my PSA 10's (as I have NONE anyway). I know I, and several others, have bought lots from Mastro in the past and present with many trimmed cards in the lot that were not mentioned, but, personally, I think that is small potatoes compared to what is going on behind closed doors. I don't have any evidence of anything and have not even suggested anything in particular as to what is going on behind the closed doors at Mastro Auctions. So, please do not say I said this or that. The only things I have stated here are what Doug Allen stated on this board (about altering cards before having them graded) and what I read from Mike O'Keeffe about the person using misappropriated funds dealing directly with Bill Mastro. Other than these statements, I have NOT mentioned anything else at all about Mastro Auctions. I do know a lot more, but will set back and wait until it comes out. It will be funny to see the excuses some of you will make for Mastro Auctions then!

Some of you can try to tear apart and blow out of proportion what I have stated, that is fine. Plese do not expect me to comment further on this, as I am done with it and will watch from the sidelines until the time is right. I have tried in this post to post my thoughts as clearly as possible to avoid questions about what I have typed, as I won't be commenting further on this until it all comes out. Happy Collecting! Scott Elkins

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Leon, the Bin Laden reference was a joke. Could it not have been any clearer? Perhaps the smiley face at the end of the joke was a hint.

And I have never once claimed anything in the article is anything but an allegation, an investigation. All I did was claim that the article provided sources, on the record, that an FBI investigation of Mastro continues. I cautioned against jumping to conclusions on Mastro's guilt. I simply claimed that as someone who bids in Mastro auctions I would be wary. I never said that no one should bid. I've repeatedly stated that I bid in all of their auctions.

Your response is really over the top -- and bizarrely out of character in my estimation. You may also want to review what I previously stated about your integrity. I still believe that and I'll just chalk up your comments to you having a bad day.

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Posted By: Cobby33

Whether Mastro is being investigated, I believe, is not the big issue. The big issue is the unscrupulous conduct in which a lot of (not all) auction houses take part. Shill bidding; misrepresenting conditions of cards; selling knowingly-altered cards; and refusing to take returns on altered cards; wagering deals with big consignors/buyers; etc.

I agree that the allegations of the Mastro/FBI issue are interesting fodder for debate, but let's not lose sight of the bigger issues which seems to pervade the hobby/business.

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Posted By: P Spaeth

I see no one making excuses for Mastro. I see fair minded people saying let's make judgments based on facts, not (so far anyhow) flimsy insinuations from biased sources. Scott, you claim to have more facts but then you say you won't discuss them. I don't blame you, I wouldn't counsel anyone to make public accusations either, but it comes across as rather smug. EDITED TO ADD This reminds me of the letter reprinted in this thread, we are warning you all sorts of bad stuff is going on, but we aren't going to name names or identify cards.

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Posted By: davidcycleback

"The less information known, the more the perception is the product of the viewer’s imagination."

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Posted By: leon

If I said you sodomized old ladies and put a smiley face by it would you think it's funny? I am just sick and tired of the anonymous posts for one...and two, for the continued unwarranted attacks on Mastro. If they are being investigated so be it. Like I said I have been investigated many times in my restaurant business. I have never been found guilty as we don't do anything wrong. IF there is an investigation it's worth being talked about. The only place you have seen it reported that there is one is by O'keefe. Do you really think he is a reliable source with all we know? Also, you say you "think" Mastro would sue if it was reported there was an investigation when there isn't. I would argue that Mastro is smart enough to know they live in a glass house and don't throw stones...especially when it will get them no where. I wouldn't waste my time on O'keefe if I were them...It's all negativity..I still think Mastro is one of the absolute premier Auction houses in the world and continue to get better every day. Have they made mistakes before? Sure...and as far as I know all have been handled in a professional courteous way.....nuff said....and yes, I still like you but I am tired of this whole smear campaign especially because it's not fact based....

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

How old are these old ladies we're talking about?

Having dealt with newspaper writers before, I feel pretty comfortable that O'Keefe would not dare to fabricate an FBI investigation that does not exist. And getting investigated by the Board of Health for having a few roaches in a restaurant is a bit different from having the FBI point a light up your ass.

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Posted By: Tom Boblitt

I don't remember seeing anywhere that Bill Mastro, as you state, had knowledge that the funds that Noe was using were misappropriated. I think that is a HUGE stretch. If someone ALLEGED that that is the case and you are just repeating it, I guess it's just that....allegations. Seems like if there was that type of evidence, then the case would currently be in court.

While I don't always agree with their practices concerning creases or especially what happened with the Keeler cabinet, I would certainly think the allegations you stated above (or re-stated from some source) would be WAY more of a problem than spooning a crease out.

I realize you don't want to post further and that's convenient when you drop a bombshell as you did, but if you have links to some type of detailed article alledging that type of knowlege can you post it. You don't have to respond, just post the link. The article outlined in this thread alledges no such thing. If I've missed that verbiage in another linked article, sorry.

And I don't really know how they make an article where they have one questionable lot bought by Bill Daniels (a very knowledgable autograph dealer in Indiana) and morph that into this whole Ohio/Noe scandal--which seems to be a legitimate problem--mostly for Noe and Ohio so far.......

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Posted By: E, Daniel

Scott, I'm a zero tolerance fan of altering cards in any way.

So, what more can I ask than at least have those participating be willing to admit it? I get to choose then to buy or not buy cards from those parties. Mastro admitting such activity was not a terrible action, it was actually quite ethical to the hobby. If an ebay seller lists his actions similarly and openly I certainly won't lambaste him - though be disappointed at the loss of hobby stock in untainted condition....I think most on this board would similary be happy to know openly about such alterations. Then with the issue in the open and not merely breathy whispers, hobbyists actually get the opportunity to change such practice - and I actually believe that can happen if the general consensus was to do so.
That's one big bogy man down.

And your second point relates to an O'Keefe story and single disenchanted voice.....
Lousy evidence for me if you compare posts by collectors on this thread, who state very clearly their inability to do that very thing being alleged, shill up their own consignment.

If you look at the idea itself, it's so damn problematic to sometimes shill, sometimes not. I mean, how do you decide? When so many items close for one or two bids over opening, why don't they shill those? If it's big ticket items that so often go ballistic right at the death, how do they know whether early shilling or late shilling makes any sense? Do you shill to make yourself an extra 50K revenue in a 12 million dollar auction over just a few items and hope no-one notices, risking all for relative pittance, or shill systematically on everything so you can fleece your nest with gold? Then, do they shill with or without the knowledge of the seller? You would have to presume with, it would be hard to explain the non-sale of items otherwise, and if so with all the big time collectors on this board - is it really possible NONE would have turned them in for this activity? Not one guy or gal who'd had the idea suggested to them by Mastro would have ever mentioned anything.......??

Anything is possible I guess, and many of my cherished dreams have been dashed by unscrupulous examples of human frailty, but boy, this would make a stupid mess of itself for a hobby giant and money making machine, and yet another unlikely chapter in gross soul-lessness.

Wouldn't you be more comfortable believing the worst on the word of some genuine hobbyists you knew and trusted?


Daniel


Edited for spelling.

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Posted By: Tom Boblitt

After Jeff's post and allegations, are you completely comfortable that that was fried OKRA you were eating?

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Posted By: Joe D.

"How old are these old ladies we're talking about?"


that may be the funniest comeback in a tense exchange that I have ever seen posted.

LOL - that was great.




as an aside...
I vote to lock this thread up. JMHO.

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Posted By: Tom Boblitt

Give it till 9pm EST or some time and then put the smackdown on it......

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Posted By: leon

After several several hundred posts I do agree that this can be locked. I will lock it this evening so if anyone has anything more to say lets please do it .....Since I am CST lets let it go to about 7pm CST....or if there is a revolt I will leave it open....I love everyone..... (big hug)....

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Posted By: JimCrandell

Reprehensible!? Try to bring back truth and honesty into the hobby and look what happens.

What did I do that was reprehensible Leon. Taking creases out of cards--he said he takes light creases out of the cards as he prepares them for grading?

I think a lot of people think your defense of him is pretty reprehensible. Unlike Jeff, I can't chalk it up to you having a bad day. You think its okay to alter cards I guess in the manner that he does--a lot of us don't and believe that Mastro Auctions conduct is symptomatic of what is wrong with the hobby today.

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Posted By: JimCrandell

I would add that I oppose locking the thread.

This is all tied up with what is the biggest issue in the hobby today and people still apparently fired up enough about this that they still have a lot to say!

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Posted By: peter chao

So what is the biggest issue in the hobby?

Peter

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Posted By: leon

For the record. I don't give a rat's ass about what you think.

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Posted By: JimCrandell

Peter,

Your legal views.

Leon,

I didn't think you had an answer for my question...and you seem to care a lot as you love to comment on them in a negative way.

I would be interested in the number of hits of Net 54 the last 2 days.

Its been interesting times.

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Posted By: jay behrens

Peter, your reaction to the Mastro admissions and current situation are the double standard that myself, Scott and others have mentioned. Other sellers have been completed blasted off the face of the earth by this board for less. This is the hypocrisy that we are talking about and you are part of it.

Jay

I love pinatas. You get to beat the crap of something and get rewarded with candy.

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Posted By: jay behrens

I would agree, locking thread would not be a good idea. It just gives people more reason to believe that Leon is protecting Mastro and unable to run this board impartially. Then again, it is no longer a public board for the disemination of knowledge. Leon has made it clear for a long time that it is HIS board and he will do as he pleases.

Sort of reminds me of Burning Man, It used to be this great gathering of people on a San Francisco beach that didn't cost anything, but greed took over and now you have something doesn't resemble what was originally intended.

Jay

I love pinatas. You get to beat the crap of something and get rewarded with candy.

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Posted By: peter chao

So you think Mastro is getting preferential treatment. I don't know, 300+ posts in this thread. Given what we know, I think we've done a pretty good job of condemning them.

Peter

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

Crandell, you invite negativity, and you deserve all that comes your way. Your last post is all the evidence needed to see that you are simply a troll that feeds off the negative attention you get. Why do you care how many hits this site is getting? Are you going to buy ad space or something?

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Posted By: Jason

No more BAD LANGUAGE on this thread or I will lock it down.
This is your final warning. Use asteriks if need be. I do not want to point people out but you know who you are.


Regards,
I love you all! (big kick in the ass)

Jason

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Posted By: jay behrens

Nice spin Peter. Yes there are people that are taking Mastro to task, but there are zealots defending Mastro. You would NEVER see this happen for an eBay seller or lower tier auction house/dealer. That's the whole point. People that would normally be vilifying a seller with what swirls around Mastro, are instead defending them. That's hypocrisy.

Jay

I love pinatas. You get to beat the crap of something and get rewarded with candy.

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Posted By: JimCrandell

Sorry Bretta Boy--Net 54 draws the most interest to collectors when it is discussing the critical issues of the day--why don't you start a u-tube thread or something?

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Posted By: Dave F

Crandell...just as you ignored my post the other day towards you, I'm sure you'll do the same here. Your actions speak for themselves, as does the constant rotating windmill of stupid remarks and your beliefs that you are the end all to card collecting.

Crandell...it is tiresome. I knew the "how many hits has the site been getting" question was coming from you at some point...it always has.

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Posted By: jay behrens

As much as you guys may dislike Jim, he is correct. It's topics like this that get the most action. These also happen to be the same topics that Jim is passionate about, so you find the two linked.

At least he is actually trying effect changes in the hobby, while most of you that bitch about him sit on your hands and do nothing to fix the problems.

Jay

I love pinatas. You get to beat the crap of something and get rewarded with candy.

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Posted By: Joseph

Ari Fleischer, Scott McClellan , Tony Snow....LEON!

Lock the thread?? Kinda like cutting the press conference short.

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

It's all about Crandell. He was asked to put up or shut up and he declined. He is now irrelevant and nothing more than a troll.

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Posted By: JimCrandell

Put up what. Asphaltman--other than bragging about what you know about boxing cards you are irrelevant to me what is Bretta.

Sorry if what I discuss is beyond your guys shallow minds--maybe you can talk with each other.

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Posted By: peter chao

You are one of the few people that laugh at my jokes...so my advice is be careful about what you say.

Peter

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

"fixing the problem" would start with 1) Stop paying outrageous sums of money for PSA graded cards and 2) step up to the plate and resubmit your T206 PSA cards to a more reputable grading company. As far as I can tell he's doing nothing to "Fix the problem".

I collect raw cards. I am doing more to fix the problem.

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Posted By: Dave F

Crandell...

Boxing Cards??? What the hell does that mean???

You can lead a dog to water put you can't get him to jump in...

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

Jim Crandell wrote: "Put up what. Asphaltman--other than bragging about what you know about boxing cards you are irrelevant to me what is Bretta.

Sorry if what I discuss is beyond your guys shallow minds--maybe you can talk with each other."

If I could decipher WTF you just wrote we could probably have a pretty good discussion. As it is I'll leave you to your drool cup. Soon enough you'll be inventing friends like a certain other backbone collector has resigned himself to.

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Posted By: barrysloate

Has anyone heard the rumor that Mastro is being investigated by the FBI?

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Posted By: JimCrandell

Go crawl into your holes--there is nothing to be gained by engaging you two. You just want the thread to be shut down so it can degenerate into name calling.

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Posted By: peter chao

Did you say that Seinfeld was being investigated by the CIA?

Peter

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Posted By: barrysloate

This thread degenerated into name calling a hundred posts ago. That's all that's left of it.

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Posted By: peter ullman

I thought it was..."you can lead a horse to water...but you can't make him drink!?"

pete in mn

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Posted By: Clint Hromek

Pete, I think it's: You can lead a horse to water but, it's better to ride him there.

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Posted By: peter chao

I still haven't figured out what happened in the last episode of Seinfeld. The gang was arrested overseas, but what law did they violate?

Peter

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Posted By: leon

If you can't see that Jim C is all about Jim C and only worried about his altered PSA cards than you are dumber than I thought, which is pretty da** dumb. The ONLY reason he does what he is doing is because of the effect on his pocketbook. I can't believe you stick up for someone espousing all of this change that needs to take place but is unwilling to lead the charge with his own cards. Give me a break.....