Kevin Saucier: You may still be in luck.

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Posted By: MikeU

http://forums.collectors.com/messageview.cfm?catid=11&threadid=595763

Also, I saw somebody ask you this question before, but I did not see the answer. Are you the same Kevin Saucier that pitched for the Tigers?

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Posted By: David Vargha

He is not.

DavidVargha@hotmail.com

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Posted By: Kevin

"You may still be in luck"
"Are you the same Kevin Saucier that pitched for the Tigers?"


the answer to both - no I am not.

I really did offer my specialty w/o talking salary...yet. He said bringing me in as part of their senior team wouldn't be fair to the other graders who have been there for so long. No shock there.

What more could Joe want? I offerred to test his senior graders...LOL.

Feel free to blitz ol' Joe with posts and emails about the doctored cards blowing past them at an alarming rate. Maybe he will get the message when some of the hobbies top collecotrs tell him he has a costly problem that needs to be addressed. He might actually consider putting someone in place that could potentially do some good.

Yeah right....that wouldn't be fair.

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Posted By: Peter Spaeth

As long as the revenue numbers are good, and I can only presume they are, I don't think Joe will perceive that he has a problem.

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Posted By: JimCrandell

Peter,

I agree--submissions are running at record levels, grading continues to increase in popularity and they are adding to their grading staff.

No issues as far as they are concerned and as per one dealer/poster here they have two long time graders that they believe are the best in the hobby.

Jim

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Posted By: Wesley

If PSA is unwilling to hire Kevin, maybe Kevin can start his own premium grading service.

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Posted By: JimCrandell

Kevin,

Since you are open to a career change, interested in cards and have a real expertise, I think you ought to take a serious look at this. Send me an e-mail if you want my detailed thoughts but I think there may be room in the marketplace for a high-end grading company. Focus on cards with a market value over $1,000, offer a detailed description of the card along with the grade, tamper-proof technology and really specialize in studying the card. For that you could charge maybe $50 per card.

The major grading companies can't offer this as they would compete with themselves.

Find a partner with a stellar reputation--say Derek Grady--and off you go.

Jim

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Posted By: Wesley

Would Kevin's service be for inspection and authentication only? Or would he slab the cards with his own label with a grade?

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Posted By: JK

Jim, are you offering to bankroll this new endeavor as well as the research and development of a new tamper proof slab?

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Posted By: D.C. Markel

It's a given that Kevin's services will be backed up by an iron-clad buyback policy - correct?

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Posted By: JimCrandell

JK,

Bankroll--no/promise him some business--yes.

Jim

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Posted By: Kevin Saucier

In truth, the concept is not a bad idea. Not to grade but to validate.

IMO any card valued at over $1,000 deserves a 10-15 min pixel by pixel exam...using inspection tools and not just an eagle eye.

Since we all know altered cards are getting past w/o a problem, would I be wrong to think the value would increase if a slabbed card was verified unaltered? Kinda' like a USDA or UL approved label (LOL).


Kevin Sacuier

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Posted By: JimCrandell

Kevin,

Thats a fascinating idea. Do you think you could provide that sort of a high value service without removing the cards from there holders.

Homestly, if a dealer I don't know well was selling a psa 8 pre-war card that I needed, I probably would not bid. But with the Kevin Saucier seal of approval--no question!

Jim

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Posted By: Kevin Saucier

My best guess is that 80% of slabbed cards can be inspected without much difficulty. Granted it is much easier and better to examine raw but it can and has been done several times. That's part of the reason it takes so long to inspect.

Problems would be tight gaskets or holders. Plus, since they have already been slabbed, these will not be hack jobs. It would still be just an opinion based on objective findings.

A small inexpensive security hologram validating the unaltered card (slab or flip) could be placed in an unassuming area.

Just thinking out loud here.


Kevin

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Posted By: JimCrandell

Seriously Kevin, I think its a great idea. Over time you could see premiums develop for cards that have the Kevin Saucier seal so collectors could use you for economic reasons and security reasons.

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Posted By: JK

No offense to Kevin, but just how many people outside of this board know who Kevin Saucier is? Not to throw darts at your plan Jim, but it seems to me that the majority of collectors may not place the same value on that seal of approval as you do.

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Posted By: JimCrandell

Kevin is on LTS which starts you off with a couple of hundred. This board has several hundred. He could post on Scott and Jay's board.

I would talk him up wherever I could.

I do know serious collectors who have posted here that swear by him and have flown cross-country to have him look at their cards..

Thats a good start.

Jim

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Posted By: JK

Its a great start if the hobby is limited to a couple hundred collectors. I was under the impression it was much larger.

Again, I think Kevin posts some really useful information when he chooses - I just dont think that his following is as big as you presume.

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Posted By: JimCrandell

JK,

Thought I got to close to 1,000.

Regardless, if he is to succeed his business will grow like any other--word of mouth--demonstrable evidence that his seal of approval helps the resale value of cards and peace of mind for collectors that the expensive cards in his opinion are legit.

Just think its a great concept that has a good chance of succeeding.

Jim

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Posted By: Kevin Saucier

"No offense to Kevin, but just how many people outside of this board know who Kevin Saucier is?"

None taken...but you are so very correct. I'm thinking a part time gig at home during my spare time and see if it evolves. If not, the upside is I still get to look at some really cool cards.

Another question would be..even inside net54 and other boards, who really cares who Kevin Saucier is? Word of mouth would be the only source for now.

btw...just looked at security holograms. They are relatively inexpensive. Insurance would cost.

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Posted By: scott fandango

This sounds like a great idea, however you forgot one important scenario.....

....Hypothetically, ConmanOne buys a T206 SGC 88 Portait Johnson with Kevin's holographic sticker on the slab....it went for big bucks in the auction because Kevin's label gave the card greater credibility....

the Conman then, using his amazing crack and reseal/buffing skills (see Kevin's detailed scans), takes the original out, slips in a lower grade or Great fake, seals it up perfect with his buffing skills, and then resells the card...a few months/years later he resubmits the original card...

now you have a resealed slabbed card with Kevin's holographic sticker on it....

theoretically this is possible so i dont see how the sticker idea would work.... can Kevin SEAL THE SEAL?

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Scott, you just blew my mind with that one.

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Posted By: Al C.risafulli

Scott, I think you should seriously look into starting a premium service that authenticates Kevin's hologram stickers.

-Al

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Posted By: JK

My amp goes to eleven.

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Posted By: Al C.risafulli

Because eleven is louder than ten.

-Al

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Posted By: Anonymous

"theoretically this is possible so i dont see how the sticker idea would work.... can Kevin SEAL THE SEAL?"


OMG that was funny!

Way ahead of you - There is a "dog bone" security hologram that can both label as the card as unaltered while at the same time wrap around the sealed slab. This will seal the seal and seal the deal.

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Posted By: Anonymous

Scott,

Wow--I will let Kevin handle that one.

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Posted By: Peck

Kevin

That was a great post as usual. IMO you have the knowledge and integrity that belongs in the grading room at every top grading company. But also IMO it's your knowledge and integrity that will keep you out of those grading rooms. You would be there to see the boxes of cards coming back from the auctions to be reslabbed. You would quickly learn how many and maybe where the doctored cards were coming from. Who gets the 8's, 9's, and 10's. There's quite a bit more but I think you may already know this.

Guys, instead of working on Kevin maybe you should email your favorite grading company to see if they would let Kevin work their back grading room. Good luck!


edited spelling - sorry it's early

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Posted By: P Spaeth

I wonder how many people really want to know the truth about the cards in their collection. It is one thing to want to avoid buying an altered card. It's another to learn the cards you own and love are altered. I frankly am not sure I would want to know. Because then what do you do, sell them to someone else and hide behind the PSA/SGC/GAI grade?

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Posted By: Kevin Saucier

Peck - thanks for the vote of confidence. Becoming a grader would not be a problem but I don't want to sit in a blacked out bunker and relinquish half my current salary (or more). My proposal to Joe was to join PSA’s senior team and stop the high-end altered cards (both in terms of card value alterations they are unfamiliar with) from getting slabbed.

Peter - Correct many would not want to know because ignorance can be bliss. Then again, some do. What they do if the card does not pass would be totally up to them. It would mean either the card more than likely or definitely doctored or there was just the slightest bit of doubt. Either would not pass in IMO. Keeping in mind some cards would be too tight to render an opinion or my individual interpretation would be different than that of the original grader. The news may not always be horrible...although often it would.

A slightly different scenario would be an auction house or dealer running an auction wants to be reassured that what is being sold in slabs is not tainted. A second "unbiased" opinion on selected cards might add to the auctions integrity and increase the value of each item. It's one thing to say you run a straight auction with in-house checks and balances and suspected graded cards being returned but IMHO it would speak volumes it that in-house opinion was outsourced.

Another scenario, two collectors want to make a high value transaction but the deal would be on stand-by until the card was given a second opinion. The deal can be finalized based on the subjective (or objective) factors.

Again just thinking out loud.


Kevin Saucier