What are the chances when you set an autobid that an auction company...

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Posted By: Rand

What are the chances that if you set an autobid and the auction gets to the extended period, that your bid will be pushed up by a shill for the auction house if there is a bit of room? I have heard specifically about 2 houses on the west coast that work with each other on that...any opinions?.........

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Posted By: Cobby33

My opinion is that it happens often- especially when the "shill" auction house offers a similar item in an upcoming auction.

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Posted By: peter chao

You mean to tell me there's shill auction houses. Unfortunately that makes a lot of sense for a business idea. If I had an auction scheduled to run 2 months from now, I certainly would be buying all items similiar to mine from Ebay and other auction houses prior to my auction.

Peter

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Posted By: Josh Adams

Huh?

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Posted By: peter chao

It's the shady side of business, I don't think you really want to know the details...but to protect a Net54 member...

Here it is in a nutshell. There is no law that forbids an auction house from bidding in other auctions. If they have an auction two months later, they can simply buy up similar stuff from Ebay and other auctions. It would be an artificial way of increasing the market price.

Then when their auction came up people would bid higher than they should.

Peter

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Posted By: Jeff Prizner

Huh?

Then the auction house is stuck w/ all the crap they won by simply trying to inflate the price.

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Posted By: peter chao

True it is a bit of a gamble, but suppose the item is a Boston Garter Christy Mathewson, there are worse things in life than being stuck with a closet full of Boston Garters.

Peter

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Posted By: Josh Adams

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Posted By: Jeff Prizner

nevermind.

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Posted By: peter chao

Your right, I'm no longer speaking about autobiding...but it follows the same principle.

Your twilight zone scan is cute.

Peter

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Posted By: peter chao

Jeff,

Your absolutely right there's lots of demand for Boston Garters, that's why the auction house would not mind having a closet full.

Peter

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Posted By: boxingcardman

Peter Chao writes:

"There is no law that forbids an auction house from bidding in other auctions. If they have an auction two months later, they can simply buy up similar stuff from Ebay and other auctions. It would be an artificial way of increasing the market price.

Then when their auction came up people would bid higher than they should."

That is not shilling, Peter, it is not establishing a fake or manipulated price, and it is not what the post was asking about. If an auction house honestly bids in an auction and honestly pays for an item it wins, that is a legitimate sale at "market". Your post doesn't even make any sense; I guarantee you that no reseller buys an item with the goal of losing money on the resale, so if an auctioneer is buying through an auction it can only be because he believes that the item is a good deal at that price.

What is being asked about in this post is an entirely different thing, namely, whether a bidder who leaves an autobid should be worried that one auctioneer has a deal to engage in shill bidding in concert with another auctioneer designed to drive up the prices to the limits where autobids are maxed out. That is indeed illegal under a variety of laws, including specific laws regulating auctioneers and good old fraud. I too have heard the rumors as to certain auction houses. I have no facts to prove their complicity. I can say that I have won lots for far less than my autobid limits in Mastro, Collectible Classics, Lipset, Clean Sweep and Lelands, so I have no reason to believe that any of those entities engage in shilling of any type. That said, any time you put in a maximum bid you MUST assume that you will have to pay it.

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Posted By: peter chao

Adam,

Your right, I went off in a tangent, it's Friday afternoon and I'm already thinking about the weekend.

Peter

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Posted By: mr. moses

it is a good thing you're skin appears quite thick...... You seem like a nice guy. I do have a bit of trouble follwing you much of the time but appreciate your willingness not to be confused by the facts..

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Posted By: peter chao

You're right. Barry, I used it right this time.

However, you cannot be limited by the facts. That's what baseball is all about. It's pretending that your Juan Marichale, and then realizing you can't kick that high.

It is going beyond the facts into the realm of your imagination.

Peter

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Posted By: barrysloate

You did Peter, well done.

I have an auction house and I purchase lots from others auctions. Likewise, other auction houses buy from me. That's not shilling, that's buying inventory. If you bid in good faith that's fine. If you bid just to run up a friend's auction, not so good.

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Posted By: rand

Peter, how did you miss my point? Let me clarify...I have an "autobid" about $500 or more above the ending price of an auction. now its in the extended period, for 2 hours the bid stays the same, then it starts to tick up but not exceed my top bid, just seems a bit fishy. What are the chances the auction house checks all the bids or the majority of them and has the item bid up on? thats the question.

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Posted By: Paul S

Peter, it's spelled Marichal.

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Posted By: peter chao

It does sound fishy. However, it could also be another collector that wants to go just 10 bucks above your bid. Another possibility is the auction house knows the maximum that you are willing to bid and they are egging you up. Do you normally win the lot or do you lose.

Peter

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Posted By: Larry

most auction houses shill right up to your maximum bid

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Posted By: barrysloate

Larry- why do you make a blanket statement like that? I run regular auctions and I don't shill any bidder up a single increment.

Please put me on public record that I vehemently disagree with your statement.

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Posted By: Jim Crandell

I also disagree.

Despite my complaints about Mastronet I don't believe they do this. I don't think REA does either.

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Posted By: Larry

And is likely one of the few honest auctioneers in the business.

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Posted By: barrysloate

Thank you.

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Posted By: boxingcardman

As noted above, I have won items from many auctioneers far below my max bids. The auction business may be guilty of many things but uniform shilling isn't one of them.