Yes..same card as in the other thread but...color variation?

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Posted By: Dave

I've gotten a couple emails from people thinking this was a color variation? I looked at the card on a couple websites and really wasn't able to tell much difference...wondered if maybe somebody with better eyes might know....also if anyone else has this O'Leary card and can post it...would be nice to compare...

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Posted By: joe

Dave, here is mine. Looks different to me. Mine is darker red color background.

Joe


Ty Cobb, Spikes flying!

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Posted By: Dave

So yours is more like the Chance Red portrait in color? Mine is kind of a burnt orange is probably best way to describe...interesting if that is the case..would love to see another this color. Again, the amazement I have for some seller that dont fully disclose what items they have...or are they just unaware...

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Posted By: Kevin

As shown in another thread...in addition to ghost images, color variations can also be created. True color differences are definitely verifiable but I just wanted to share that you should always keep a watchful eye.

Here is a 1952 with half the background changed to show the possibilities. Unfortunately it's much easier to do on pre-war cards with an emphasis on 206's.





Kevin

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Posted By: Dave

Having read your posts in the past I do feel your pretty knowledgeable when it comes to altering cards....with all due respect on this one however, I kind of get the feeling if someone had the knowledge and a reason to change the color on the O'Leary, wouldn't that person also have enough know-how to soak the card and get the paper glued on the back to come off? Not sure otherwise what the benefit would be from doing the color alterations..when in effect by simply soaking the card in addition they could have easily had a PSA 5 or even PSA 6...just a thought to ponder.

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Posted By: Kevin

Hi Dave,

My post was not about the O'Leary card. That is more than likely a true variation, as many are.

My comment was more generalized in that we should not always take color variations at face value. Each should be looked at closely just to make sure no alterations have been made. Many times it may be difficult at best to determine, even by the most advanced collector.

I've learned that before making a statement that can be somewhat unbelievable...I should show some kind of example .

While we are on the subject, card doctors don't always make a card as perfect as possible. Sometimes they are made to look imperfect...just as long as the variation or alteration raises the value in some way. This double deception, creates a believability factor. It would be three steps forward and one step back. The end result would still be two steps ahead.

As an example...the O'Leary card, although real, could have easily had the scrap paper added. The collector would pay extra thinking, "I could remove that scrap."

Kevin

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Posted By: Steve f

Interesting reading.

>As an example...the O'Leary card, although real, could have easily had the scrap paper added. The collector would pay extra thinking, "I could remove that scrap."<

Twisted logic, but I reckon anything's possible in highend stuff. Kevin, you make my brain hurt.

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Posted By: leon

Whether folks like you or not, or believe you or not, I appreciate you coming onto the board and sharing some of your knowledge. When trying to catch a criminal it's best to try to think like one. Most of us don't really think that way but it certainly helps to open it up a little.....(to catch a gopher.....be the gopher)....

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Posted By: John

Actually , I think Orange is the normal background….

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Posted By: Anonymous

Ahhhh....another orange...and probably 15,000 more just like it....nothing too wonderful....lol

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Posted By: John

Well you can't win them all...LOL

The red above seems to be the less common if you do an ebay search all the O’Leary’s are orange....

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Posted By: Kevin

<Whether folks like you or not, or believe you or not, I appreciate you coming onto the board and sharing some of your knowledge. When trying to catch a criminal it's best to try to think like one. Most of us don't really think that way but it certainly helps to open it up a little>
So far the feedback has been very positive. No one is claiming to dislike or disbelieve...unless you know something I don't (LOL). Granted I needed to prove it first, which makes perfect sense.

It's not just being able to alter cards, I think anybody can do that. It's getting a variety past the professional graders and doing so each time. Once this is accomplished, knowledge can then be passed on because now it's proven credible.

"For now" I'm just bringing attention to some alterations that few knew could be done and might consider spending a fortune on. IMO at least a few collectors will now give some thought before buying that blank card or odd variation.

Who knows, maybe these posts are how graders learn as well.

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Posted By: leon

I know the SGC graders and GAI read this board.....I am not sure the PSA guys do.....(insert PSA bashing remark here).....