Interesting email from REA

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Posted By: Cobby33

Point well taken. I think sentencing/punishment in State courts is a lot less organized and a lot less "equitable," given that disorganization.

Personally, I don't have an axe to grind with Skilling, et al., although I think what they did was below reproach.

At first blush, one wouldn't think that a "white collar" criminal should be doled-out the same (or worse) punishment than a violent criminal. Makes sense, to a certain extent, until you consider the number of victims and in many cases, the irreversible harm these people have done. In those cases, I don't see MUCH of a line (there still is) between violent offenders and "white collar" offenders.

I'm sure everyone is tired of listening to me, so I'll sign off on that thought...

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Posted By: davidcycleback

The problem for the Skillings and Ebbers is that some sentencing is based directly
on the amount of money stolen (stolen may or may not be the appropriate word). Ala, if you steal
$100 you get a fine, if you steal $2,000 you get a fine plus 10 days in jail, etc.
For these guys, the amount was in the billions of dollars. This is comparable to
a sentence being based on the weight of the item stolen, and they stole Mars ("Bailiff,
please hand me my scale.").

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Posted By: Frank Wakefield

This is my 13th year as a judge. I render judgments and sentences. I have the fortune of being a state court judge, not restrained by sentencing guidelines. (Although those federal guys do have a better deal than I when it comes to compensation, job security, and retirement.) I'm relieved that it is judges who do the sentencing, not some of you guys who've posted above. Figuring out a fine on a speeding charge isn't really very difficult. Adjudicating child abuse and making custody determinations can be quite difficult and troubling due to the uncertainties of the situations. Again, I'm relieved to know that you guys aren't doing that. And I probably would not excell as well as you folks in your professions.

Realistically, you'd be a bit better off if you paid attention to what you were buying. Don't blindly trust slab labels and then whine. If you're spending big bucks (to you) on a card, establish a return policy prior to the purchase. Try to think of an old card like you would a used car. If I sold a used car to someone, and they come back in a few weeks mad because the car had a replacement gas cap, would that void the deal?? Was I trying to defraud them???

I understand cards aren't cars. And I agree that someone who intentionally bleaches or "soaks, stretches, and trims" a card with the intentions of selling the card to someone as a card that is unaltered... that person would be committing fraud. But it is at worst a theft, a crime against property. Don't compare that to murder, manslaughter, rape, sexual abuse, or other offenses against a person. At least don't do that and expect to be taken seriously.

This thread was about REA's email... not about administering Star Chamber justice on anyone who does anything to a baseball card.

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Posted By: warshawlaw

I am personally far more at ease with a judge who has actually heard the evidence and can consider it controlling a sentence than with a judge being forced to look at a book and pick a sentence. We are having a lot of trouble here with sentencing mandates, both because at times the sentence doesn't fit the crime and because of the overall effect on our prison system of warehousing so many non-violent criminals for so long. While I am satisfied that Skilling is going to do a long stint given the current law, I do not think that our approach to crimes like his is sensible. Frankly, we don't need to waste $40,000 or more a year segregating Jeff Skilling from society; we need that money and the jail space to pay for incarcerating violent or crazy people. One of the reasons why violent offenders are paroled is that so many non-violent criminals are doing long stints, overcrowding the system with people who don't need to be there. I am of the view that prisons should be reserved for criminals whose acts pose an immediate life and safety threat for others, not for white collar offenders. Force them (under threat of prison if they don't cooperate) to cough up and pool all of their assets for their victims, let them spend years in state and Federal civil courts dealing with class actions and other suits brought by their victims, and make them spend the rest of their time on unpleasant community service work details. Break them financially and force them to live like the people they've victimized: impoverished in a brutally unsupportive society that is singular among the developed nations in lts lack of social safety net, public health care system, etc. A lifetime spent testifying against yourself, doing community service (freeway trash pick-up sounds good, or perhaps cleaning public toilets), living in slums and eating cat food sounds like better justice to me than putting the guy on a military base to garden.

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Posted By: jay behrens

They can end a lot of overcrowding by legalizing marijuana. I'll take a pot smoker over a drunk any day of the week. I've never met a violent stoner, but there are plenty of violent drunks. That's why I don't have any friends that are alcoholics.

Jay

I love pinatas. You get to beat the crap of something and get rewarded with candy.

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Posted By: Gilbert Maines

So then, the conclusion of our assessment is that the best way to address the problem of doctored cards in top end graded holders, is to legalize marijuana.

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Posted By: barrysloate

You've got my vote (whatever on earth it has to do with altered cards- maybe altered state of consciousness).

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Posted By: Judge Dred (Fred)

The scans of the Lajoie really aren't that helpful and it's difficult to compare scans of different sizes. I would be nice to see large hi resolution scans of this card (front and back) in the GAI3 holder.

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Posted By: cmoking

Is this PSA 2 in Memory Lane's auction the same card as the card previously in PSA 1MK and GAI 3 holders?

http://www.memorylaneinc.com/site/bid/bidplace.asp?itemid=4760&getauctionid=64




Edited to put the two scans of the PSA 2 and PSA 1MK next to each other.

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Posted By: jay behrens

Centering sure seems to be the same

Jay

I love pinatas. You get to beat the crap of something and get rewarded with candy.

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

No question that is the same card.

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Posted By: Tony Andrea

Absolutely, positively, the same card..............

Tony Andrea

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Posted By: Frank Evanov

Definitely the same card....but where did the writing on the back go?????

Frank

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Posted By: jay behrens

The crease wasn't perfectly removed. If you look at Lajoie's left shoulder (right side of the card) you can still see where the crease was in that area.

Jay

I love pinatas. You get to beat the crap of something and get rewarded with candy.

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Posted By: ScottIngold

Wow..... Scary and amazing at the same time.

Even the nick just to the left of the (L) on the top border is still there. All be it much lighter.

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Posted By: leon

It's definitely the same card.....and you can still see the much worked on crease in the middle, in the bottom pic.....This would make a good debate. I do believe the structural integrity was compromised with the crease as heavy as it was. I would sure hate to be the one buying it in the 2 holder if I didn't know about the before picture.....If I did know about the before picture then I could bid accordingly...it's still a nice card. This is one I would want full disclosure on and could be an issue. best regards

edited to add, after looking again, those could almost be heavy surface wrinkles....hard to tell without seeing the backs....and both are nice for their grade, I agree with cmoking on that...

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Posted By: cmoking

My opinion is that it is the best PSA 1MK I've ever seen. That's the lowest grade that PSA can give a card, and it doesn't look bad from an eye-appeal perspective.

If I had seen the PSA 2 without knowing it's history, I'd think it looks like a fantastic PSA 2 also.