Banner advertising on the board?

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Posted By: leon

Hey Folks,
I have been contemplating allowing paid banner advertising on the board for quite sometime so figure I will get more input on it in a thread. I have spoken to the previous moderators and many other prolific board members about it, recently. I haven't heard of any show stoppers so far. The reason to do it is because:

1. I have been asked by several companies if we would allow it.
2. It would be a little income.
3. I could give back some to the board and have a nice trivia quiz giveaway each month. The other previous moderators would get a small monetary gain.
4. It would add a little color to the board, which it could use.
5. It would allow advertisers, which we all already know, to advertise on a board dedicated to our niche, and remind us of their company's.

The biggest potential issue I have encountered is a perceived conflict of interest with advertisers. In other words if XYZ Auctions advertises then some folks, or myself, might not say what we feel. The only thing I could say to that is the contract that would be made up would state that this is an open board and anyone or any company is fair game. To that end any company advertising could cancel at anytime as well as I could cancel them at anytime for any, or no, reason...with prorated refunds given. It would be open ended in that respect. The company's I have spoken with understand the situation very well. Also, if it's tried and doesn't work I could cancel the advertising at anytime. I really don't want the board demeanor changing. With that said I will continue to be hard on anonymous posting, on purpose. All comments are welcome and I hope folks don't think this is the end of the world. It's simply a banner at the top that you can choose to click on or not. Most of the advertisers, if not all, would be well known to us already. There will still be no fees for the board and no fees for the BST area's. Thanks for ya'lls understanding in the matter...

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Posted By: Patrick McHugh

Leon I like the idea. It will bring as well more people to the sight which should = more knowledge and input.

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Posted By: Bryan Long

I could care less - if it will put a little cash into the well-deserving folks who help run this board than I am all for it. Like you said, as long as the people know that this board is open for all comments, just about, good and bad. I don't think it will hurt anything as long as the board continues to be ran the way it is now.
Plus, a little color is always a good thing

.

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Posted By: Lee Behrens

I think it is a great idea, it will help cover the costs of the board plus give and the other former moderators a little kick back for your time and efforts. Another idea if there is money available to help in the cost of the Net 54 National gathering.

I do like the idea of a monthly contest of some kind.

Lee

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

I don't really have a problem with it. I'm pretty certain that every website I visit on a regular basis has banner advertising of some sort...doesn't bother me and I rarely notice it. If it helps you out Leon I say go for it.

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Posted By: andy becker

this may be a dumb question......but, will this be a banner or a pop up? i'm not sure there is a difference, but pop ups are a pain in the....

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Posted By: Cobby33

Go for it and keep the proceeds!

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Posted By: paulstratton

Do it. I assume most of these companies are already in the vintage links section anyway. Might as well generate some income for all of your work.

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Posted By: Steve M.

is

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Posted By: warshawlaw

As long as whatever is done doesn't interfere with use of the board from a technical standpoint and doesn't change content, it is OK with me.

Perhaps some of the money could be devoted to sponsoring the N54 National party (I'm particularly thinking of the, er, bar part of the party being open later and longer )

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Posted By: Jay

I have a big problem with the idea. I think it compromises what people will say and I also think that it effectively endorses companies based on their ability to pay rather than the quality of their services. I am not sure that I would be willing to participate in a board like that.

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Posted By: leon

NEVER !!!!!!!!!! I hate those things. I really don't want to change the demeanor of the board and it is truly the most important thing to me. That's why I have put in so many "outs" if I don't see the normal bashing continuing. Thanks for the replies so far.

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Posted By: Joe D.

and if it helps you out... all the better.

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Posted By: Wesley

I agree with Jay. Allowing certain companies to advertise here will have a chilling effect on criticism of companies that advertise here.

It looks like the decision has already been made, so hopefully this board can for the most part remain objective.

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Posted By: DR

Questions answered...thank you.

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Posted By: Kaz

I don't have a big problem with advertising but if they are going to pay you based on how many clicks the banner receives I would be disappointed. I refuse to click on an ad banner because 80% of the time or better it's gonna lead to some jacka$$ infecting my system with spyware/malware, etc. or lead to an influx of spam I don't care to dig through.

Good to know you are adamant about NO POP-UPS!!!

Bill

My personal collection - http://s47.photobucket.com/albums/f176/fkm_bky/

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Posted By: Josh K.

I have no problem with advertising - and, contrary to some other views expressed above, I do not believe that a banner at the top of the page will in any way temper my comments or those of other board members - particularly since the vast majority of us have no financial stake in the advertisement. Frankly, if PSA (for example) chooses to advertise with us, and doesnt like something I say, thats too bad.

The only thing that would change my opinion on this is if I started seeing some of my comments being edited by the moderators - however, I have no reason to believe that will happen.

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Posted By: davidcycleback

Considering it isn't free to Leon, but costs him money to run the site (Yes, I count time as money), it's not unreasonable for him to want to generate some money. For me to babysit board fights and give new members time outs when they are naughty, the board would either have to be on my personal web site or I would have to be paid $$. The feeling of power would not be enough.

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Posted By: leon

No kind of pricing has been set but it would NOT be based on clicks it would be a monthly fee. Also, it would be static so the download wouldn't be any slower than current page refresh's. It's not a done deal as I wanted to get feedback and see if there was anything I hadn't thought of. I understand the potential for not speaking as freely and hope that wouldn't happen. Again, if you read my last post that is why I have left an out for myself if it doesn't work. To reiterate, as I stated something contradictory, this has not been totally decided yet. I am leaning that way though. Thanks again to all who have an open mind and trust I will do the right thing....

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Posted By: davidcycleback

As an independant businessman, I'm already paid monthly to chill my criticisms ... On an unrelated note, Mastro has some fine items this month that will make the lucky winners the envy of their friends and will impress the pretty girls.

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Posted By: barry arnold

Sound fine to me.
I have no problem trusting that you will do the right thing (my paraphrase
of your excellent use of the language of ethics!)

all the best,

barry

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Posted By: jackgoodman

My 2cents. How many banners are we talking about? will it be one at the top of the page or several placed between threads? I'm also concerned about load times. Will you publish the general requirements for companies that wish to buy a banner? Can individuals buy banners as well? Will banners be limited to site specific items only? Those are my questions. I don't foresee any problems with people on this board censoring their comments because of advertising so that is not a concern at all. I would be interested in the answers to the questions I've posed tho.

Thanks Leon.

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Posted By: Hal Lewis

NO POP UPS!!

NO VIRUSES!!

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Posted By: Griffin's

I vote to add it. The last time there was a call for board contributions was years ago, and I believe Leon has been paying it himself since then. Time is a huge contribution, pay yourself back from the ads and move forward.
And thanks for all the work you do, Leon. I doubt anyone has any idea how much work something like this is until they have done it themself, and your efforts are truly monumental.

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Posted By: Jason L

and I apologize up front if I missed it mentioned earlier, but did the inquiring companies mention at what point they became interested in advertising on the board?...meaning, once the site cleared a certain number of daily hits, etc? just wondering what their criteria were, if they shared?....

PS - If the site doesn't become materially different in any way, I'm all for you getting paid!...I know I am relatively new here, but I have been very impressed with everything about the site and the job you've done...

PPS - I also like the idea of a monthly contest or sending some of that money back out in ways that would help the board's community (sponsoring dinners, contest prizes for best pick-up of the month, best thread of the month, maybe web design software to help members build websites, etc)...

Jason L

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Posted By: leon

First of all I manage the board because I enjoy it. Whether there are banners or not I will still do it. Now to answer Jacks questions which were:

"My 2cents. How many banners are we talking about? will it be one at the top of the page or several placed between threads? I'm also concerned about load times. Will you publish the general requirements for companies that wish to buy a banner? Can individuals buy banners as well? Will banners be limited to site specific items only? Those are my questions. I don't foresee any problems with people on this board censoring their comments because of advertising so that is not a concern at all. I would be interested in the answers to the questions I've posed tho."


1. One banner only at the top of the main forum and potentially the other pages...but my thought is only 1 at the top....

2. Load time will not be an issue...if it is then we won't do it. You can mark my word on this. I still have dial up at home....(ISDN)

3. I doubt I will publish requirements on the buying of a banner. Suffice it to say it will be monitored and I would only want banners pertaining to our niche. Trust me on this.....

4. Let me reassure everyone, once again, there will be the exact same censoring as there is today...which if you are anonymous then it will be tight...If you put your name by it you can say almost anything you want to per the forum rules...whether about a future/present advertiser or not... This reminds me of a grading company we all know and love. I happen to know the general manager and my view on this is the same as his on preferential grading. NEVER.....It would kill his business as it would kill this board...

Hope this answers the questions posed....regards

edited to answer Jason's question. I have had numerous inquiries within the last year about advertising....nothing specific as to "when" they started...

Let me add something else too....if a company does not do a banner ad they would still be able to do a post about their auction.....just as it is today. Again, it's a moderation thing....

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Posted By: Andy

Not sure if I'm considered a "Board Member", I lurk daily and post rarely, but banners wouldn't make me double think a comment about an advertiser. I can't see why it would make anyone censor themselves. If an advertiser doesn't like a comment made on the board, then they can pull their ads and stop putting their name in front of all the other collectors on the board.

I agree that Leon and others should be compensated for their time and if this can accomplish that then go for it.

As far as color goes, I'm content to enjoy all the color from the images that you all post in the threads. Simply wonderful! I never tire of seeing the cards you all have.

Thank you

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Posted By: jackgoodman

Go for it!

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Posted By: barrysloate

Hi Leon- while you and I have already talked about this, and I see nothing wrong with you making some money on a project that you have put many man hours into, I probably still have a few reservations about it. I might like to see just what the page will look like before I gave it my full endorsement. How many ads will be visible at one time? Will they in any way be a distraction? I also probably would find "we are accepting consignments" ads a bit off putting. One of the things that I like about the board is I feel we are all on equal footing. Whether one is a beginner or an advanced collector, everyone has the same freedom and rights. Now, all the biggest companies, the one's who will be able to afford these ads, will be staring us in the face every time someone wants to post. Again, there is nothing necessarily wrong with this, but maybe in the same way that a billboard every hundred yards on a highway doesn't add to the pleasure of a Sunday drive.

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Posted By: Chris Bland

Anyone who can pay the fee and stay on topic, or will it be relegated to the REA's and Mastro's of our collecting world?

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Posted By: Matt E.

No big deal Leon.
Banners can be easily ignored after a period of time.
No Pop Ups.

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Posted By: leon

Barry- I understand your concerns. I don't think this website would be too different than most you click on today....I wouldn't want the banner to be too distracting... One ad at a time ....

Chris- I have given some thought to who can advertise. If they stay on topic I don't see a problem with collectors or companies doing it....This is all new to me so certainly there could be things that pop up that I haven't thought of...hence this thread.....I am all about communication....

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Posted By: JimB

I am all for it. I think Leon should make a little $$ for all the time he puts in.

I don't think it will alter the content of what gets said here. I would think that most posters already assume that the majority of hobbyists with interests in pre-WWII cards already are reading what is said here, even if they are lurkers. Leon does not strike me as the type of guy who censors opinions he disagrees with.
JimB

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Posted By: cmoking

I almost always ignore them. In fact, I can't remember a banner on any other site that I actually did click on or take notice of. Go for it, it won't bother me, or effect me in any way - postive or negative. I imagine a lot of people are like me. Just as long as it is not disturbing, like strobing lights or pop-ups.

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Posted By: Brian Weisner

Hi Leon,
I agree with Jim B, I'm all for it.
Be well Brian

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Posted By: John

As far as anyone making money I’m all for it, however in this instance my vote would be no.

It’s a good idea in theory, but once the line has been crossed from in effect non-profit to profit, there’s a whole new set of rules and assumptions to be made. This can be a very blurry line, and may cause more problems than what’s it’s worth.



With that said your club, your rules go for it, just giving a friendly word of caution.

Best Regards,

John

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Posted By: Brent Butcher

Advertising wouldn't bother me either. I don't think it will affect the way peolple interact and correspond to certain topics. The only individual that it could affect from a monetary standpoint would be Leon and I don't think the money coming in will change his integrity with the way he moderates this board.

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Posted By: Rhys

I really could care less one way or another, but it is a very slippery slope once you start throwing money into anything. Anytime you take money from anyone you align yourself with them. Once this site goes to paid advertising it will never go back, regardless of what types of outs there are.

Subjectively I dont care at all if Leon or other past moderators make some money off of any project they have put time into. I think Leon does a great job as have others in the past. So I will not care if it goes to advertising personally.

Objectively though, if Leon or others will run this site because they love it whether money is a factor or not, then why make it a factor by throwing money into the mix. It might be a completely innocent can of worms, but its a can of worms nonetheless.


Rhys

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Posted By: joe

Sounds good Leon. Just hope the ads are not the type that keep flashing.

Joe

Ty Cobb, Spikes flying!

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Posted By: leon

Your last comment is valid. My answer is that I do enjoy doing it but why not be compensated a little if it doesn't hurt anything? If you had a site and folks wanted to pay you to have a banner, and it wouldn't change the site, wouldn't you take the money? It is a slippery slope and I am very aware of it.....

btw, Rhys, I guess you just don't know me well enough when you say once it's there it will never go back.....if the demeanor changed/changes then it would indeed go back to pre-banner days...not much more I can say to that matter...

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Posted By: howard

If the cards we collect have ads on them then why not web site?

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Posted By: steve f

Im all for it. You should recieve something for babysitting us.

Perhaps, for those sitting on the fence, you could allow a trial banner in the BST?

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Posted By: Cat

Do it! I believe that if the advertisers are chosen carefully it could be a huge plus. The most frustrating thing to me, in this hobby, is finding the cards that I want/need. As an example, additional information on upcoming auctions, etc. is always welcome from my perspective.

I wish auction houses would come on the board more often and give us advance lists of what they will have in their upcoming auctions. More information is better.

It might be nice if after a year of so of this, if board members were given a chance to have further input. I believe you might have A LOT of interest in advertising on this board since it is a vey specific niche of collector and many auction houses (and other services) serving that niche. Board members might have opinions later as far as what type of advertiser proves a positive contribution and which detract from the value of the board. BUT IN THE END, it is your decision Leon.



________________

http://www.audiocomedy.net/soundboards/jacket.shtml

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Posted By: Dave Seaborn

This board is a very special place, there's really nothing else like it. Having been here since the pre-N54 days, I can say it's a great thing and it wouldn't be the same if there was no board. To me, ads don't matter too much so long as the 'feel' of this board doesn't change...that's important.

Fianlly, count me in with those who think it sure would be nice (if possible)to take a portion of the funds and use them to defray the costs of an annual N54 meeting. That would be great. Keep up the great work Leon.

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Posted By: jay behrens

No way an ad will temper my comments. If you deserve to get blasted, you will. I don't care who you are.

Jay

I love pinatas. You get to beat the crap of something and get rewarded with candy.

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Posted By: Bob

Leon I think you have answered most everyone's questions and concerns. You certainly answered mine. I am all for it.

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Posted By: Mark Evans

I think it makes sense to try it assuming pop-ups and viruses can be assuredly prevented. Also, I think ads should be as inobtrusive as feasible and certainly not flashing or moving or the like. I think the concern over stifling board content is probably a red herring given the independent and outspoken nature of most board members, but I would ensure that if I'm wrong, the board can terminate any agreements in relatively short order. Mark

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Posted By: edacra

The only time banner advertising seems to interfere is when the moderators/owner start to depend on that revenue in order to handle the overhead of the site. Really, the people helping to pay electricity bills on this forum really should deserve preference over some card collecting ruffian "speaking their mind".

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Posted By: Rick

I wouldnt mind an auction house ad ...it would actually be nice to be remained of up coming auctions , special items etc.

Maybe even a company like MJ roops or vintagecardpricer.com

However grading companies would just be too much, same with ebay handles etc.

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Posted By: Rick

actaully now that i think about it...

I would rather have a member paid message board than a sponsor paid board.