50 yrs ago I played Hooky & saw a Perfect Game

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

The one and only time I played hooky from going to school was the day Don Larsen
pitched his PERFECT GAME......Oct 8th 1956.

I told my Mom I did not feel good....I was faking it....as I wanted to stay home and
watch a World Series game. At noon I turned on our 16" Admiral TV and never left it.
I still recall the 9th inning when Furillo, Campy, and Mitchell came to bat just like it
was yesterday. And, I also recall some of the exciting plays in this game that could
have broken up the no-hitter.

Several years ago I met Don Larsen in Cooperstown on HOF w/e....and I told him all
this. We had a great conversation. He was modest enough to say "the Dodgers that
day made it easy for me, as I only had to throw 97 pitches".

As we were parting, he said (with a smile on his face)...."I don't believe you, son".
Surprised at his comment, I replied "Don, I can recall all the important moments of
the game; and, believe me.....I was saying my prayers for you in that 9th inning".
Don said...."Oh, I believe your story, I just don't believe that it was the only time
you ever played hooky".
We both cracked up laughing as I thanked him for reminiscing with me.


In the new issue of OLD CARDBOARD, Lyman has included a nice tribute to the 50th
anniversary of Don Larsen's Perfect Game.

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Posted By: barrysloate

The way the Yankees are playing today, Bonderman was flirting with a perfect game. I was four years old when Larsen threw his, so if I told you I remembered it, you know I am lying.

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Posted By: Patrick McHugh

Ted that is a great story. I to have met Don. He is great to be around and has alot of baseball to talk about. Don also has a great sense of humor as your story shows.

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Posted By: jay behrens

One of the few autographed balls I have is of Don Larsen with a great inscription about the perfect game. All the rest of my signed balls are also personalized except for the very first foul ball I caught at a game. It was hit by Butch Wynager and I got him to sign it after the game. You just don't see players signing after the game anymore.

Jay

I love pinatas. You get to beat the crap of something and get rewarded with candy.

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Posted By: Gilbert Maines

He sounds like a nice guy. I was never much impressed with his pitching, well, other than this game, that is. But he sure was not an easy out with a bat in his hands.

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

GIL

I chatted with Don, again, this summer up in Cooperstown. There were long lines to
get his autograph and talk with him. Many fans realizing this was the 50th anniv. of
his tremendous achievement. He was as friendly as I always, he still looks pretty
good, although he doesn't stand as tall as his 6:3 stature.

He was a really good hitter and Casey Stengel often used him as a pinch-hitter.
He and Tommy Byrne (southpaw pitcher for Yankees in the '50s) are two pitchers
who are listed in both the Pitcher and the Player sections of the BB encyclopedia.
They both were pretty good hitters. Tommy Byrne once won his own game by driving
in 7 runs with several hits, including a Grand Slam.

Did you read the nice tribute to Larsen in the OLD CARDBOARD that Lyman did ?

Best regards, TED Z

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Posted By: Gilbert Maines

Yes Ted, I didn't miss that. I particularly noted the dimensions of Ebbets Field and the Yankee Stadium. Additionally, the Dodgers lineup was so strong that they batted Campanella next to last (right before the pitcher). So Larsen's feat is all the more noteworthy.

And Zimmer as a player.

I just took it out again. It seems to me that Larsen's crummy W/L record is probably due to the teams other than the Yanks, which he played on. He was a winner with the Yanks - heck, everyone was.

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Posted By: Joe D.

Was in a box in my attic, and this thread reminded me that I had it...

Ted Watts limited edition lithograph (500 pieces) signed by Ted Watts and Don Larsen

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Posted By: barry arnold

thanks for the memory TRex.
i just barely remember seeing Larsen's game, as a wee little boy, but do
remember vividly coveting his baseball cards just 3 years later.
Baseball is THE game, isn't it.

all the best,

barry

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

Very soon we will be watching the 102nd BB World Series......and, in all these years, only once
has there been "perfection" in the art of pitching in this event. Is this achievement so unique ?
Or, can it happen again ?

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Posted By: jay behrens

Eventually, as long as they keep playing baseball. I put money on another perfect game being pitched before another major earthquake interrupts a WS

Jay

I love pinatas. You get to beat the crap of something and get rewarded with candy.

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

I don't know what earthquakes have to do with it......but, I think it will be a long,
long time before we experience another Don Larsen-type performance again.

I'll bet if you SABR dudes really got together and analyzed BB statistics and did some
number crunching you might just find out that the probability of a WS Perfect Game
comes but once in every Century.

Look at what history tells us.....it took 53 WS before the 1st Perfect Game.
Since then, 50 years have transpired. And, I say it will probably be another 50 years
before it occurs again. It's like we BB fans are treated to such a great performance,
but once in every Century......it's just the nature of the game.

Therefore Jay, I was tempted to take you up on your bet, but I don't expect to be
around to collect it from you 50 years from now.

T-Rex TED

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Posted By: jay behrens

The point of the earthquake was that only one game has ever been stopped due to an earthquake, just as there has only been one perfect game. There is a possibility of a perfect game in each game. Unless the game is being played in an active quake zone like CA, there is not a chance of an earthquake every game, thus it will be much more unlikely to see another earthquake stop a game than see another perfect game.

Jay

I love pinatas. You get to beat the crap of something and get rewarded with candy.

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

I was watching the WS in 1989 when the SF earthquake occurred. Look, McGraw and Brush
prevented an entire WS in 1904....the lack of a real BB Commissioner prevented an entire WS
in 1994....and "lightning" might just strike this WS. An earthquake again stopping a WS ?

Well, earthquakes occur all over the world, almost on a daily basis, a Perfect World Series game
has occurred only once in 100 years. And, the way the game is played lately, I will bet you an
earthquake, of sufficient magnitude, is more likely to affect a WS game before another perfect
game is thrown in the WS.

T-Rex TED

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Posted By: Jason L

nothing better than great memories like that...except of course for getting to share them with the actual people of the game, and having them interested in re-living it with you like that....truly great stuff

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Posted By: jay behrens

If there is a St Louis v Detroit WS, this a far greater likelyhood that we will see a perfect game than we will see any game stopped because of a major earthquake.

Jay

I love pinatas. You get to beat the crap of something and get rewarded with candy.

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

JASON L

I'm glad you appreciated my chat with Don. I go up to Cooperstown every HOF weekend.
I am sure I will see him again next summer, the Good Lord willing.

And, we will reminsce about his game some more......it seems like Don never get's bored
talking about the game. He's a really friendly guy.

I've chatted with Ted Williams a couple of times; and, David Wells is a very friendly guy.
Don Larsen and David Wells graduated from the same HS in San Diego (there was a lot
of fanfare about that coincidence when Wells pitched his perfect game in NY in 1998).
And of course Ted was from San Diego. Really nice people from that part of Southern
California.
They are down to earth and love to talk Baseball with you.

TED Z

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Posted By: Jason L

for a niche collection of some sort, (maybe Gil would agree):
collect cards of those players who enjoy talking baseball with the fans...

I would have to add Bob Feller and Johnny Bench to the list, as I had conversations with them in Cooperstown on HOF w/e also...

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Posted By: Dave Rey

Frequency of perfect games in baseball history (roughly) = 1 per 31,873 regular season games.

That was figured by dividing the approximate number of games played by both leagues since 1901 (using a rough figuring) -- 478,092 games -- by the number of perfect games since 1901 -- 15.

Number of WS games played thus far in MLB history is 592.

If you assume that the historically-established likelihood of a pitcher achieving a perfect game are the same during a World Series game as they are during the regular season game, then we should see a perfect game in the WS again sometime about 5,284 years from now -- by the math...

Of course, next year five guys could, theoretically, throw perfect games, changing the math completely... In fact, just one person throwing a perfect game next year would have large impact on the math.

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

I like your idea.....why don't you start a Thread here....asking Forum members
to post conversations they have enjoyed with professional BB players.

TED Z

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

David Rey and Members

With all due respect to your mathematical analysis, I do not believe there is any means
that anyone can use numbers out of BB encyclopedia and try to predict the probability
of a Perfect Game in a World Series....not even Einstein could, if he was still alive.

I was fortunate to watch this event as a kid; and, I have reinforced my memory of it by
watching a video tape of this game. A confluence of several factors that may have pos-
sibly set the stage for this perfect game are noted here......
The Dodgers won the first 2 games at Ebbetts Field. Sal Maglie easily won the 1st game
and the only threat by the Yankees were HR's by Martin and Mantle.

Don Larsen was blasted in the 2nd game after the Yankees gave him a 6-0 lead. Stengel
had gained confidence in Larsen, who pitched very strong in the September drive. And,
despite this bad showing, Stengel went with Larsen again in the 5th game which was at
the more spacious confines of Yankee Stadium.

Now, let's stop here to appreciate how tremendous a feat this was.....The prior Perfect
Game in the Majors was pitched in April 1922.....And, how formidable the Dodger lineup
was, as Roy Campanella was batting in the 8th spot. Indeed, 4 of the Dodgers in this
lineup are in the HOF and a 5th, Gil Hodges, should be.

Unlike the 2nd game, Larsen was being "paced" by Maglie, who was also pitching great.
By the 5th inning the score was just 1-0....again Mantle had hit a HR off Maglie.
The Dodger batters were not patient that day, as Reese was the only batter to wait out
the count to 3-1. It came down to 2 defensive plays that saved the No-Hitter for Larsen.
Jackie Robinson hit a ball that deflected off Andy Carey's shoe, and a "heads-up" play by
Gil McDougald (ss), who threw out Jackie by half a step at 1st base.

Late in the game, when the 64,000+ fans were getting excited, Gil Hodges connected with
a long 400+ ft. drive to Left Center field (Death Valley in Yankee Stadium). Mantle started
running from his spot in CF, and caught it in front of the HOF Monuments (440 ft deep).
Hodges' drive would have been a HR in any other ballpark in the Majors.

So there you have it....events leading up to....and events that stand out in this game, that
make for PERFECTION.

TED Z

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Posted By: Bill K

Great story Ted! Thanks for sharing.

Jay, through Missouri runs one of the larger fault lines in N. America. Nothing like the size in CA or off the coast of Washington/Oregon, but significant enough that it could theoretically cancel a WS game. I'm with Ted on this one.

What a strange tangent off the original post! I like it though!

Bill

My personal collection - http://s47.photobucket.com/albums/f176/fkm_bky/

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Posted By: Dave Rey

Well, Ted, you're wrong.

It isn't that hard mathematically to figure the current probability, given 100 years of historical outcome data.

Just because you don't like the beauty and mystery of baseball being wrung down into cold, static numbers doesn't mean it isn't possible to examine the game in that manner.

And just because the math says the likelihood of an event like a WS perfect game happening again in the next couple milleniums is slim (as long as the game isn't radically changed), doesn't mean it won't happen in game 1 of this year's WS. It just means it is incredibly unlikely.

I find it fascinating that many baseball fans will blithely go along and accept statistics as being a interwoven part of the fabric of baseball, but when you actually try to make sense of the statistics and look at them with intelligent analysis, it disconnects something in their brains.

Heck, you asked for a representation of how amazing the Larsen WS perfect game was and I gave it to you in the most basic possible terms.

I guess I should've just said, "It probably won't happen again in our lifetimes," and left it at that.

To put it even more forceful, it is probably the rarest occurance that baseball will ever know.

And, hey, I like the beauty and mystery of baseball as much or more as anybody here -- I just realize that the enjoyment of the game can be expanded by expanding my understanding of the cold, hard side of it, as well.

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Posted By: barrysloate

I think the unassisted triple play is even rarer than the perfect game, although it happened a couple of times rather recently. Randy Velarde pulled off one, and I forget the other.

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Posted By: Dave Rey

Yup, Barry, you're right -- only 12 unassisted triple plays in MLB history, with Wambsganss pulling the trick in the 1920 WS.

I'm not going to do the math, but it is obviously even more rare than perfect games.

Funny thing about unassisted triple plays: Half of the unassisted triple plays in MLB history happened between 1920-27.

Four of the other unassisted triple plays occurred from 1992-2003, which was, like the 20s, a period with a proliferation of offense.

My guess is the periods where offense is the dominating side of the game, like it was during the 20s and the 90s/2000s, the higher number of baserunners during these times, due to higher league batting averages and on-base percentages, provide more opportunities for the unassisted triple play.

By contrast, perfect game occurances seem to be fairly independent of overall ebbs and flows between offense and pitching eras -- though there were three during the 60s and a pair during the 00s dead ball period, when pitching was king.

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Posted By: barrysloate

Three were pitched between 1964-68, by Jim Bunning, Sandy Koufax, and Catfish Hunter, then not another one until Lem Barker in 1981. Talk about an obscure pitcher pitching one. The Yankees had the strangest run, with Wells in 1998, Cone in 1999, and Mussina missing by one strike in 2001.

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Posted By: Dave Rey

Len Barker was a decent pitcher for a couple years there, even made the All-Star game in '81. He even won 19 games for a mediocre 1980 Cleveland ball club. He had really good stuff, but could be wild now and then.

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

Dave, Dave......hold it a second, you don't really know me. I am a retired Electronics
Engineer, who fully appreciates mathematical probabilities and statistics. I used this
stuff in my profession for 30 yrs. And, I can hold my own talking BB stats with anyone.

However, after having been lucky to have a couple of conversations with Don on his
famous game, I am just trying to place a human face on this event. The 2nd game of
the 1956 WS, he was wild and the Dodgers blasted him for 6 runs in the 2nd inning.
He said that he went to bed early the nite before. So, then the nite before game #5
he ate late , had a few beers, and got to bed about midnite. But, more importantly,
he seriously took Casy Stengel's advice (given after his 2nd game failure).

Look Dave....nowadays in reg. season play, there is a higher probability of No-Hitter's,
just in the way the game is played. Consider the Yankees, it took almost 40 years till
another Yankee pitched a No-Hitter (or Perfect Game). In the 1990's Righetti, Abbott,
Gooden, Wells, and Cone achieved this feat.....of course that was "the Kiss of Death"
for these five pitchers, as Steinbrenner "rewarded" them by trading them away.

I say it's easier, nowadays, because thes hitters are not patient, like the "old gang",
who would work the count and made the pitcher really work at it. Ted Williams, and
currently Derek Jeter are very good examples of patience at bat.

Don Larsen said it best....the Dodgers made it easier for me....I only threw 97 pitches.

That translates to 3.6 pitches per batter.....it doesn't get much better than that.

T-Rex TED

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Posted By: jay behrens

Bill, I am aware of that that fault. It is responsible for the largest earthquake in the continental US back in the 1850s. This fault line gives way about every 125 years, so it is due to go off again. Last time I believe it was around Memphis, who knows where it will break next time, but sizemologist say that when it goes, it will be the most devasting quake we've seen in the US since no buildings in that zone are built to be earthquake proof.

Jay

I love pinatas. You get to beat the crap of something and get rewarded with candy.

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Posted By: Mike

So then what are the chances of an unassisted triple play in a World Series game during an earthquake in the seventh inning of a perfect game?

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Posted By: Joe D.

that was funny!

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Posted By: Gilbert Maines

Dave, T-Rex and I share similar backgrounds, and I think opinions on mathematics.
Specifically, mathematics is a tool which can help you understand a subject.
I believe that you are with us on this.

Our divergence seems to be on the degree of emphasis which is placed on the model.
You see it every day. A practical guy has about had his fill of a theoretical
guy's correlation coefficients, random effects models and linear regression analyses.
Some of us who are mathematically trained have come to trust in our
dead reckoning above any attempt to reduce the subject to a mathematical computation.
So please temper your arguement which starts out as "Well, Ted, you're wrong",
taking into account the context and perspective which is applicable.

By no means are these statements to be construed as an indication that I feel
that mathematics is to be disregarded. Certainly this input is a valued piece of data
in any analysis, but it is not the analysis.

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

Look guys.....the only "math" that really matters here is watching Don deliver his "97th" pitch.

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

From 1901 to Oct 1956, there was approx. 70,000 Major League games played.
During this period, only four pitchers had achieved Perfect Games during regular
season play; and, they were all American League pitchers......

1901 CYoung (Boston)

1908 Addie Joss (Cleveland)

1917 Ernie Shore (Boston)

1922 Charlie Robertson (Chicago)

Now, you really cannot analyze this phenomena in a linear manner, in order to attempt
to predict a future perfect game occurence. As 3 of these perfect games were pitched
in the "dead ball" era.
Sure, I may seem as an un-objective Yankee fan, but the more I study this tremendous
feat, the more I appreciate what Don Larsen achieved that autumn day in 1956. After all
5 of the 9 batters that Larsen faced that day are real HOFers. And, Sal Maglie, who was
his opposing pitcher that day, was very effective.

The following regular season "Perfect Game" was pitched by Harvey Haddix (Pirates)
in 1959 where he threw 12 unbelievable perfect innings (only to lose it in the 13th).
Followed by Bunning (Phillies) in 1964 and Koufax (Dodgers) in 1965. Then Hunter (A's)
in 1968. And, another 5, or so, Perfect Games have been pitched since then.

If you dare try to average out these 12 Perfect Games (regular season play) over a
period of 100 years, the math will tell you they can occur once per 12,500 games.
I do not ascribe to this type of thinking, but for those that do......that's simply how
it boils down.

T-Rex TED

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Posted By: barrysloate

Baseball has changed the criteria for no-hitters and I don't believe Shore's even counts anymore because Babe Ruth started the game and walked the first batter.

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Posted By: jay behrens

Barry is right, Shore is no longer credited with a no hitter or a perfect game. Neither is Haddix. The big rule change was that a pitcher had to win the game in order to be credited with a no hitter, which seems totally stupid to me since a no hitter means giving up no hits. It shouldn't matter if the pitcher won the game or not.

Jay

I love pinatas. You get to beat the crap of something and get rewarded with candy.

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Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

JAY & BARRY

Thanks for info. regarding Shore and Haddix. Although, in Haddix's case that really seems like a
very weak technicality.

But, this news then makes my argument even stronger....that the probability of a Perfect Game
occuring is very rare in regular season play....and therefore, another World Series Perfect Game
might occur but once in this 21st Century.

And, most interesting is that there's no way of knowing when it could happen again. I hope it is
sometime soon, while I am alive to enjoy it. I will never forget the natural "high" I experienced
after Larsen pitched that game......it lasted for days. Also, this time I wont have to play hooky
in order to see the entire game.

T-Rex TED

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Posted By: barrysloate

The same thing that happened to Haddix once happened to Pedro Martinez. He did pitch a nine inning perfect game but the score was 0-0. I forget the outcome but he didn't complete it as a perfect game and has never been credited. What Haddix did was so extraordinary because he did it for 12 innings. Regardless of how he is credited today his feat is unique and will never be duplicated.