Ebay and Shill Bidding

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

Ok, two times over the past few days I've noticed shill bidding on ebay auctions and have reported it to ebay. I'll provide the two examples and tell me what you think ebay did in response:

1) The shill in this auction has two feedback total for very cheap music-related items. All of a sudden, out of the blue after not bidding on anything for over a month, he bids on just three expensive, high gradeed 1950s baseball cards - all ending tonight and all being sold by just this one seller. A review of the seller and the shill finds that they are both located in the same state.

2) The shill bidder and seller are also from the same, very underpopulated state. The shill's feedback indicates that he has won two vintage baseball cards in very high grade of which there are only 3 and 4 examples at that grade in existence. It just so happens that the SELLER has those very two cards in HIS Registry Set (at that rare, high grade) which is reviewable on the PSA site. Oh, and the shill is only bidding on two items, both being sold by the seller. Also, the two cards he's bidding on are from different baseball eras.

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Posted By: Josh K.

Im guessing ebay couldnt or wouldnt put two and two together and let the auctions proceed.

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Posted By: Jason

"PSA Registry what?...."

I doubt they cared to learn what that means....am I right?

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Posted By: John S

I have complained about shill bidding a number of times. My question regarding ebay is why do they still allow sellers to keep bidders' identities private? In those cases potential buyers can only assume that shill bidding might be occuring.

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

On the first situation Ebay claimed no evidence of shilling. As for the second one, despite promising to get back to me in a proscribed period of time, ebay ignored me and the auction ends tonight. Here's a question: when I get the card that I was shilled for (for $200 bucks) do I leave a negative feedback? (I've already received positive from the seller)

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Posted By: Joe D.

You won the auction?

I don't quite understand the gripe you could have as the winner. You control how much you are willing to bid... and since you won, you were willing to pay that $ amount for that particular item.

I am not saying shill bidding is okay. Not at all.

I am only saying that if you have an objection to the bids or the level of pricing, don't bid on the item.

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

I won the auction with a snipe bid. The underbidder (shill) put in a bid that was designed to set up an artificial reserve. When I bid, the price for the auction was $200 less than what I ended up paying for the card. I was unaware at the time the auction was going on that the underbidder was a shill (I don't normally check the bona fides of each bidder on an auction); however, after the auction was over I was surprised at the final price and grew suspicious. Obviously I put in too high of a snipe (arguably) but that shouldn't cause me to be stuck with a final sales price influenced solely by a single shill bidder.

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Posted By: steve f

Ebay frequently ignores these reports, rarely do they actually boot the auction any more -there's just too much riffraff for the security division to investigate. It is up to us buyers to set the standards. I certainly wouldn't leave a positive. The seller knows the rule, he took a risk and broke it. And without correction he's likely to do it again in the next auction (Heck, it's profitable). He stupidly left a positive and left himself open. This is a rare opportunity without fear of retribution.

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Posted By: cmoking

I'd be pissed too. Some people seem to think that if a buyer wins it for his bid or less, that he should be happy with it. But that's forgetting the fact that the buyer may have won the auction for even less if not for the shill bidder.

I don't know if ebay really cares much or if they just pretend to care. I found a blatant form of shill bidding, and emailed ebay. They NARU'd both buyer and seller...for a week or two...after that the seller was right back on the market with the same userid. Ebay slapped them on the wrist or was willing to take their word they weren't shill bidding. They don't care...shill bidding makes ebay more money. But they want to make the public think they do take steps to eliminate it. In any case, smart shill bidders won't get caught. It's not difficult to shill bid and be undetectable.