One of the hobbies greatest mysteries...Who really runs the The National?

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Posted By: Patrick McMenemy

I have always been curious as to who really runs The National?

Does anyone here know anyone on the NSCC Board of Directors?

An annual sports collectors convention is a tremendous idea, however, I find that the current choice of cities on the rotating schedule leaves a lot to be desired. The closest National for me as a New England collector in the last 10 years was the Atlantic City National. I think that the National Sports Collectors Board of Directors are really missing the boat by not having a show in Boston or New York.

Anyone else feel this way?

Patrick

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Posted By: DJ

Boston's fine...but how about killing the Cleveland show and giving the show to Las Vegas, Nevada? Every other big convention takes place in sin city, why not this one?

DJ

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Posted By: jay behrens

You can't get rid of the Cleveland show unless it moves further east. If you moved it to Vegas, you have 2 West Coast venues, one Midwest and nothing close to the East Coast. I'd be willing to bet there a whole lot more collectors in the East and Midwest than there is on the West Coast.

Personally, I'd like to see the show go back to San Fran again. The 1987 National is the most memorable of all the Nationals I attended from 1986-1991.

Jay

Growing old is not optional, growing up is.

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Posted By: DJ

Cleveland is the closest to me, but it's simply not that strong.

It's always the weakest of the Nationals. I don't head all the way west, not attending this year.

It's just mind boggling that the same handful of cities get it every year and there isn't ever a motion to move it to a new venue.

Ok, how about Boston instead of Cleveland and Las Vegas, instead of Anaheim. Now if it was in Las Vegas instead of Anaheim, I would probably make the trip. I'm not really into the whole magical world of Disney, but I am up for some gambling and leggy waitresses and free libations! Nothing like playing an extra session of craps in hope of increasing the slabbed grade of something you see at the show that your "mulling over".

DJ

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Posted By: Judge Dred (Fred)

The east coast collectors have some of the best shows to go to. In the west the nice shows with really nice material are fairly sparse. All Nationals should be in the west or midwest... ok, I'm just kidding. I do however think the venue could change cities a little more often. For example, a "west" show in San Diego would be great because the ball park is right across the street from the convention center. In San Francisco their is a choice of the A's or Giants games within public transport. You can make a case for Seattle and Las Vegas also. Phoenix could offer the Diamondbacks and cheap rooms for the summer (hot, hot, hot!!!).

Does Anyone want to work up some choices for the midwest and east and why they'd be great locations?

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Posted By: John Barnes

How about St. Louis? That way, it's in a nice central location for everyone. Who wants to go to Cleveland??

St. Louis, you've got the Arch, the Cardinals, the river, etc.

JOhn

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Posted By: Cobby33

I'll second Jay's nomination for SF.

Why not have one West Coast in the Winter and one East in the Summer and rotate in a Midwest one?

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Posted By: cn

I think it is unfair that the National is mainly based in the Midwest and the West. How about NYC,Boston,Philadelphia or Washington. Atlantic City and Parsippiany don't cut it once every 10 years. CN

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Posted By: Josh K.

Speaking for us southeasterners, I would definitly like to see a Nat'l in DC in the future.

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Posted By: warshawlaw

Look at the map. Cleveland is an hour or so from NYC, five hours from LA. If you want to really go geographical center, you are looking at Nebraska or Kansas. Hardly hotspots for conventions.

We have one of these threads every year about this time. The reasoning and the results never change. The real reason why places like Cleveland shows up repeatedly are:

1. The venue is dirt cheap, available and hotels are cheap too. Anaheim has the same attraction. Ditto Rosemont (Chicago). NYC's convention center is in Manhattan and therefore has major costs involved, all of which turn off the "frugal" folks on the national board, who assume that if we are paying big city rates for facilities, room and board, dealers won't set up and we won't spend it at the tables.

2. The other factor is attractiveness of distractions. The last thing the convention powers want is to put the convention somewhere with lots of attractive alternatives for your time and money. Las Vegas would be great (our bar association has an annual convention there) and there are lots of cheap rooms, but step out the door and you have gambling, world class shopping, dining, . Cleveland? 'Nuff said. Rosemont? A road or train trip away from Chicago, hence not likely to furnish distractions to the average convention goer who flew in and is staying nearby. Anaheim? Way cool if you are seven years old, otherwise, no merits as an adult destination. Like cows in the killing chute, the conventions are set up to make sure we are herded onto the floor.

3. As I understand the mechanics, the convention is awarded to a promoter each year and the promoter gets to keep the difference between the costs of the show and the money taken in by the show. In other words, there is a profit motive behind keeping the costs down (crappy venues).

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Posted By: FYS

I would like to see it go back to Detroit for a year. It has only been 20+ years or so.

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Posted By: Josh Adams

The National should be in Chicago every year. It's a transportation hub, and right in the middle of the country. Plus, great scenery, food, and just a grand ole' time. Plus I live there, so it's easier to get to. But that's besides the point!

Go Go White Sox
2005 World Series Champions!

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Posted By: Doug

Chicago is in the middle of the country? Not even CLOSE!

Doug

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Posted By: Judge Dred (Fred)

Speaking on the subject of the geographic center of the US... The west coast could arguably be the center of the US if you consider Alaska and Hawaii... Seattle looks kind of central in that respect... ok, tough sell besides I'd rather have it further south, like Southern California.

If you're going to make Chicago the geographic center then there would have to be consideration for St. Louis, Cincinnati or even KC but Chicago is a large hub for United and American (and lets not forget Southwest Airlines out of that other Chicago airport not called O'Hare).

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Posted By: Patrick McMenemy

I'm curious as to whether anyone here knows anyone on the NSCC Board of Directors?

I have also heard the excuse before that the reason they don't change cities is because they need " dirt cheap venues."
That argument doesn't hold water. There are certainly many places that would be less expensive than the current cities. If Boston is too expensive than Worcester, MA would be a great alternative for a Northest National location. It is less than an hour from Boston. It has it's own airport and convention center/sports arena. It's a central location for all of New England, and has a ton of hotels as well.

In addition, if you believe the statement that they don't want cities that have too many activities which might compete against them for the collector's dollars....then explain their choice of Atlantic City?

Patrick

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Posted By: Rhett Yeakley

I actually like the idea of having the National at the same venue every year.

Growing up my father was really into collecting Trains (Lionel, American Flyer, etc.) and the TCA (Train Collectors Association) have established that every year their national convention is at the same venue in York, Pennsylvania. Train collecting is big, but not nearly as popular as Sports Cards. However, during the week that the convention is happening--that city is dedicated to it, and there are tons of things to do there, and it almost feels more like a festival than merely a train show, which is the way I always feel about the national--it ends up being just a big card show-nothing really special.

Honestly I have always been a little surprised that as card collectors we aren't more organized like other hobbies are. They have national clubs, local chapters, etc, etc. As card collectors we are mainly rogue agents. I guess I just never really understood why that sort of thing has never really caught on with card collecting.

-Rhett

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Posted By: scott brockelman

The "National" is operated by a board of directors elected by the dealers. they then solicit bids from different venues. The Boston/New York area has been discussed before, the centers are very expensive and not workable, plus Boston is very expensive to fly to.

Cleveland is worn out. but they persist due to a bargain on the IX center. They also can not do the "smaller" markets such as ST Louis or Dallas, due to the small convention centers, years ago in the 1990's 600-700 dealers would make the numbers work, now they want 1000-1200.

It has reached a point of diminishing return.

BUT you must understand, the vintage cad people are the least of the their concern, it's geared towards new product and thousands of people attending, which if we had our own pre-war convention would be hundreds of people attending.

Unfortunately there is no right answer.

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Posted By: Anonymous

The main way the national is chosen is accesibility to the masses. Chicago and Cleveland are very easy to get to by both air and car, and the area hotels can be found cheap. There is also a nice atmosphere for families and other attractions are not too far away... Whereas Las Vegas and New York are not, just like Atlantic City, which was a big mistake!... Also another large factor is the size of venue that is needed. The square footage narrows the possible centers down to around 15 or so, many of which are not in good locations for a sports collectibles show... Remember, the show cannot rely on hardcore collectors alone and has to rely on casual collectors who live within two hours or less to want to travel to the show just for the sake of possible interest.