Question about creases and how they affect value

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Posted By: Dustan Hedlin

This might depend on many other variables depending on the card, but how much do you factor in creases when buying a card? I just don't know how big of a deal creases are with T206's since they're so old. I want to buy cards because I like them, but I want them to hold value as well. Maybe I'm making too much out of it....I don't know enough about these cards to make an educated decision yet. Also, I am assuming that there would be a price difference between, say, an SGC 30 with a crease and an SGC 30 without a crease. Is this correct? Thanks in advance for helping the noob.

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Posted By: T206Collector

But seriously, not all creases are alike. There are spider wrinkles, creases visible only from the back, card-breaking creases through the face, corner creases... all of them impact the value of a card differently. However, two SGC 30's will usually sell for about the same, as long as the imperfection is comparable in terms of detracting from the image and/or quality of a card.

The rule is basically that a card can't grade above an SGC 50 if it has a crease. And, if a card has a crease, it will usually grade SGC 40 or less. SGC 50's sometimes have a single minor corner crease or a mild crease that is only visible from the back.

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Posted By: Judge Dred (Fred)

Dustan,

You are correct about different variables to take into consideration when you factor in a crease when buying a card. Is it a surface crease? Is the crease visible on both sides of the card? How much does the crease detract from the overall appeal of the card? These are just some questions that people look at when determining if a crease will impact their aesthetic decision to buy a card with a crease. Other considerations are how tough is it to find the card? Will another copy be available soon at a price as relatively reasonable as the one with the crease? The ultimate question is will I (can I) be happy with owning a card with a crease? If you're not going to be happy with it then why even bother purchasing it.


"I want to buy cards because I like them" - that is the right rerason to buy cards - you're already on it!

"but I want them to hold value as well." - In some cases it is economics that drive the purchase. I can afford this T206 Cobb with the crease much more than the T206 Cobb without the crease. Who knows what this stuff is going to be worth a year from now or even 10 years from now. If you bought stuff 5 years ago you're probably doing alright as far as valuations go, but remember, this stuff is only card board (sacralige, sorry) and buying for investment doesn't always work out the way we want it to. Again, buy because you like it.


"I am assuming that there would be a price difference between, say, an SGC 30 with a crease and an SGC 30 without a crease." - If the grading company did their job there should be a difference in a card graded 30 with a crease and a card graded 30 w/o a crease. I would guess that the overall appearance of the card with the crease will be better than that of the card w/o the crease. But anyone that has seen enough graded material will tell you that sometimes you're lucky with grading and many times you're not. Do not buy a card sight unseen based on a grade. Always request a scan of both front and back of the card. A good dealer/seller will disclose problems but some may not.

I would highly recommend that you check through the completed listings on ebay to get a good idea of price differentials. There may be some abberations but over all at least you get to gain some experience by looking at the scans, photos, grading and pricing. Good luck and happy collecting!

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Posted By: barry arnold

dustan,

you can see from t206 collector and Fred that it is difficult but imperative to define CREASE.
Surface,spider,front through to back,almost torn,etc. can be nuanced in numerous ways.
Also don't forget that the graders are not just using the naked eye.
I have on numerous occasions been ecstatic when first opening a package from a seller to me and
seeing no 'creases'. Once i pull out my magnifying glasses and loupes, I realize that the designation 'creaseless' vanishes, usually moving my hope
of sgc 50 to hope for 30. Again, defining crease is a must, since a 'crease'
visible only by a high magnification might well keep the card in the 50 range(all other variables being ok)--happily, this was just the case this week with sgc. Admittedly, this tends to be rare, since i have had numerous hopeful 50's or 40's become 30's.
I tend to remind myself that if i can see the crease(including all nuancings of the definition) readily with the naked eye then i shouldn't be surprised if i receive a 30.

best,
barry

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Posted By: Brett

The thing i don't understand, are cards with multiple creases and paper loss on the back cards, and they get grades of PSA 2. i also see cards with no creases, grade 2 with no creases, chipping or paper loss. i've seen so many over graded cards, its rediculous.

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Posted By: Joann

I agree with comments about different degrees of creasing being significant. Sometimes I look at cards tilted to the light so you just look across the surface, and I don't see a single thing. You can see that the gloss across the whole card is uniform and perfect without a single discontinuity. Put it under a loupe and POW! there it is. But not noticeable without careful exam.

At the other end of the continuum is a crease that is so heavy that it shows front and back, breaks the paper on the front (so you can see white breaking up the color scheme), and significantly interferes with the image - across the face, etc.

In addition to that, I also have a factor that I call a "loose tooth" crease. Some creases can look extremely bad, but the card feels sound and doesn't seem like it bends at the crease. Others may look less horrible, but the parts on either side flop around fairly loosely - like the card is broken. They flap back and forth like the loose tooth you had as a kid that just wouldn't come out. Those I really don't like, even if they look halfway decent in a toploader.

So for the latter types - break paper, intrusive, across the face, loose tooth, etc, the value/rarity/desireability come into play. As an example, usually for me a crease across the face that is noticeable, and especially one that breaks the paper, is a show-stopper. Yet when the E103 card below became available I grabbed it for about $100 and could not be more happy to have it. I love the card, and couldn't care less about the crease. Why? Because E103's just don't turn up that often. I don't know if I had ever seen one of a Detroit player for sale before this one, and haven't seen a DTW player E103 since. And no way never for $100. I'll live with that crease all day long. But on a T206 O'Leary portrait that I can pick up easily? No sale.



Bottom line: crease effect is dependent on the total circumstances for most collectors - severity, location, type combined with the rarity and cost of the card.

Best of luck to you.

Joann

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Posted By: Judge Dred (Fred)

Here's a scan of a card with a very bad crease that you would think cut the card in two pieces. It's still in one piece. The crease is a big distraction but the overall image clarity of the card made me purchase it at a very reasonable price. I think I can live with the crease...

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Posted By: Dustan Hedlin

Thanks for the replies, guys. I do agree that extent of the crease is very important. I think my question was more about the smaller, thinner creases, but I think I have answered my own question in a way. I appreciate the replies, and now that I have agreed to a deal for this card, I believe I can show the card in question. I paid a fair price for it.



While there is a small crease in the card, it has good color and centering, and I like the way it looks. That's really all that matters to me.

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Posted By: David Vargha

To me, unless the card is very scarce (like my severely creased SGC 10 Holland Creameries Goslin) then the location of the crease plays an important part in the equation, all other factors of the crease being the same. I prefer to avoid creases across the face of the player if at all possible.

DavidVargha@hotmail.com

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Posted By: Gilbert Maines

Regarding a card holding value:

There is no rule which states that a higher grade, or rarer card will appreciate faster than a lesser example. Although high priced cards often demonstrate significant appreciation, they sometimes exhibit noteworthy loss.

Whether 10 vg cards @ $100. will outperform a single higher grade card @ $1000. would be an interesting study. I suspect the data will be found to often be in conflict.

The above is simply my opinion.