The walls are groaning, I hear the shrill rasp of the knife my wife is honing......

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Posted By: Enright, Daniel

...............and the bank keeps on loaning, and loaning, and loaning.
I sat in my bedroom two nights ago, with my cards in their plastic shields like valiants of old, and my stomache clenched tight as panic fear and mild nausea wafted round me. Not the first time I had allowed myself this thought. But, what, IF, these peices of paper, all of a sudden, had no value. Nothing. That this whole world I had become immersed in, and filled my empty space full with, and escaped that which was hard, and unpleasant, and drained me of that happy version of me I remember pre responsibility, and fatherhood, and husbandry, was suddenly gone. I had merely been part of some dark pinter-esqe slice of life - where men whose life experiences left them largely unimpressed with the system, and it's orchestrators, had created a new world and given it meaning, and language, and justification, and value, just to find joy in something plainly good, and unjaundiced.
And what if, all those men no longer turned up, at shows, on-line, their phone messages changed to cutting feminine tones informing all former friends who wanted to bilk her family of their opportunities for a happy life, to just piss off.
I mean, its paper. And yes, those who aren't the described-in-recent threads as No.1 ers, seeking the cache, the self agrandisement of owning what others couldn't, but those of us who really love sport, the movement, the extraordinary instinct to leave gravity and twist and throw and time each motion just so, to combine and recombine in time with others all flowing to move balls to other places in time, do really love and perhaps understand more than others who just can't, what is special about sports, and the images captured on card. That the very best essences of humanity can be expressed over and over again, and the worst that must be overcome and beaten down to give context to the life experiences of our species can be so beautifully played out.
But it is paper. And if you, or 35-50 wingnuts, or one hundred or three or eight, all decide it was just crazy, then I'm absolutely buggered.
What do I do? How do I explain to my wife the opportunity cost to her life, and our kids, of my collecting.
So when I read of Hal and his Wagners, and the anxiety and treachery of those who would take shot at such high flying ownership, I understand. Because all of us are angst'ed, whether we allow ourselves to think often on it or not. To own two extraordinarily rare, and meaningful, and shockingly expensive cards, is also to be holding so much possible hurt and grief in one's hands should the carousel stop.
Should the carni' leave town waving sadly and all his animals moved to new homes in authenticly generated habitats with lab created superior-vita-mined foods, then what does Hal do the next morning? And all those who would secretly be pleased with the idea are merely those not brave enough to risk such a latte less day, and think they are somehow safer because they 'only' have 60k in cards and would never have risked so much any way in one basket. Ah yes, the stock market learned collector has soooooo much less to worry about!

Of course, there is an answer.............a kryptonite to this big f decaled costume that shrouds our love of the game.
It's called fair play. Why on this gorgeous blue jewel of a planet do collectables sold pay up to 28% capital gains tax, very near the highest tax thuggery for all investments possible regardless how long we cherish them?
For this community to ensure its economic and emotional existence, it must grow so large that it sits immune to the vagaries of taste and change - and do so in a way that Americans most admire. Make it pay.
So lawyers amongst us (and I am not one), whose o'pining is fun to doggedly decipher, I believe, should take the challenge. Fair play I say!
Make us safe.
Make us happy.
Make us sleep all snuggly with our vintage and significant others at night.

Daniel

Ps. Thanks so very much Keith O'leary for your generous and kind welcome to the community post-my-first-post, and to Ben Fisher who I absolutely remember from Ebay as a first class human being and collector

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Posted By: Angst'ed Wingnut

Took the words right out of my mouth.

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Posted By: Wesley

"....I hear the shrill rasp of the knife my wife is honing......"


I found this line particularly disturbing.

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Posted By: Judge Dred (Fred)

Hopefully those that collect these little pieces of card board are not building a "house of cards" from it. Buy what you can and buy what you enjoy. Buying for investment leaves you open to hearing the shrill rasp of a knife being honed by someone whos retirement plan you are spending...

This stuff could lose a great deal of value in a very short period of time. This stuff isn't necessary to exist (for most people, at least) and you'll be hard pressed to find someone to pay top dollar for it if the market for these cards crashes.

IT'S ONLY CARD BOARD!!! (ok, that was a bit sacriligious).

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Posted By: warshawlaw

it is a hell of a lot more satisfying to look at a card than a stock brokerage report when both are worth only the paper they are printed on. If my cards plummeted in value tomorrow I would...buy more of them. A lot more. Send your rarities to me. I like them regardless of value. I collected them when people gave away boxes of old cards; it isn't about the money for me. The money is nice but if you cannot afford to have the cards turn to zero (lose your investment), by all means get out now and collect reprints so you won't have to sweat it. But for what it's worth, I have been in cards as a dealer and collector since I was 12 (1977) and it has never taken a plummet in that 30-year span.

As far as capital gains go, yeah, it sucks, but there are ways around it. I would form an LLC or S corp, capitalize with the cards, hold the interest a year and a day, then sell the business with its inventory rather than the cards and take long term gains tax treatment on the sale. Should qualify for the lowest CG tax rate. BTW, this not legal or tax advice and if you are going to do it, check with your CPA and lawyer first because I could be wrong.

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Posted By: dd

I'm with adam, i collect regardless of value.

Sure, cards can lose their value, but so can our monetary system. Who knows what the future holds given our current political climate.

I enjoyed reading the post though.

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Posted By: John S

I'm with Adam. Please crash. I started collecting when much of my collection was worth just a bit more than the cardboard it was printed on. As the values of most vintage items continue to increase at a rate greater than my income grows, I am able to add fewer and fewer pieces to my collection each year. My collection is not a portfolio, it has been built from disposable income. That keeps collecting "fun" for me.

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Posted By: jay behrens

This as my mantra when I was heavily active in the 80s. I always told people to buy what they liked and interested them. That way, if and when the market crashes, you will have something that you still enjoy regardless of value.

Jay

WOW upsidedown is MOM. Mom upsidedown is what dad wants to see.

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Posted By: Judge Dred (Fred)

Adam,

Was that a disclaimer at the end of the post?

Card prices (unless you're talking about the shiney crap) haven't come down in 30 years but they also haven't risen as fast as they have in the past 3-4 years either.

I'm like a lot of collectors, let the stuff take a dump so that I can buy more of "what I like" because at today's prices it just isn't as enjoyable as it could be (with lower prices).

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Posted By: Enright, Daniel

Let me know where to send my 90'Leaf Sosa's and 85'Maguires.
The rest of the stuff I think I'll keep.
But I appreciate your considered response...........



excuse the Aussie spelling of McGwire........

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Posted By: Enright, Daniel

Not to belabor the story, but the picture I was trying to draw was not one of crashes, or cheap buys from collectors who couldn't handle their drink! Not $100 wagners, and $5 mathewsons. Not markets where you could buy up all the good stuff because you knew eventually it would be worth lots more one day.............
I mean seriously, this sports card stuff is good stuff because it has BOTH meaning AND value. It's not as if you are buying gorgeous lithography, if that's what you're after look to a myriad other advertising forms or artworks. Most card designs barely pass any kind of design muster and display extremely questionable color choices, let alone be seriously uplifting.
It was a nightmare scene, you see, where NO ONE wanted cards anymore. Not you, not anyone..............so my cards were in fact, just paper.
Maybe my writing just sucks these days.
Definitely.

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Posted By: David Vargha

I don't feel so good . . .

DavidVargha@hotmail.com

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Posted By: warshawlaw

No, my friend, the cards I buy are little works of art to me. I've sold off very valuable and rare cards because they don't "speak" to me as art pieces. I have cards I buy because I think they are good deals and ones I buy because I like the art and I use the former to get into the latter. I would far prefer having a T206 Johnson to most works of "legitimate" art.

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Posted By: RP60

Dan buddy I hope you dont have a pistol in the house..And silly me I almost suggested you get a hobby? Dont panic about your cards there will be an endless supply of both cash and collector nuts for a long time...

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Posted By: John Kal

I would love to collect El Grecos and Van Goughs but I collect Goudeys which in "pack fresh" condition positively glow. Munch's "The Scream" is painted on cardboard.

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Posted By: Joe Tocco

>"....I hear the shrill rasp of the knife my wife is honing......"


>I found this line particularly disturbing.

Apparently you have not shown your wife the check I just sent you Did you notice who signed that check, by the way?

Joe

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Posted By: Wesley

"Apparently you have not shown your wife the check I just sent you Did you notice who signed that check, by the way?" -Joe

I think you might have bought me another month Joe. Thank you!