Non Baseball Memorabilia

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Posted By: Alan Elefson

Hi-
I was curious to learn what this board thinks about the relative availability and desirability of other sports' memorabilia versus baseball memorabilia. Specifically, I very rarely see early basketball memorabilia proffered in the major auctions (e.g early basketballs, game worn, early college uniforms, etc.). My guess is that this is due to the relative lack of name recognition concerning PreWWII basketball stars vis a vis Baseball (obviously) and even Football and Hockey. Are there just not that many collectors of Pre WWII (or better yet, Pre WWI) basketball items?
Full discosure, I am a avid flea market patron who generally flips items by wholesaling to dealers. Also, I have a pair of early basketball shorts that I got for a song that I am trying to resell (off board, this is not a BST post), but I am having difficulty finding the right collector(s). I mention both of these points so folks undersatand where I am coming from.
Please post your thoughts on this topic and please feel free to broaden the debate to include other sports as well (I saw a really nice old volleyball at an antique shop for sale but had to pass because I am unsure how old it is and its rsale value if any). I hope this post is not too confusing to follow (it took me several tries to articulate my desired questions).
Alan Elefson

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Posted By: Alan

Hi (another) Alan -

Glad to know I'm not the only person on earth that collects vintage basketball memorabilia. I've been asking the same question for a hell of a long time (even my question was raised in a story quoting me about it in SCD in the late-1990's) - something like "Why is there not a lot of vintage basketball memorabilia collectors and material available ?"

The answer is still unknown.

Alan

P.S.

If (vintage collector) Hank Reizes doesn't want those shorts, you are SOL

edited for spelling

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

There are a lot of reasons behind the scarcity of vintage basketball memorabilia...first being that not nearly as many people played basketball compared to baseball in prewar times...less uniforms per team means less surviving to today, only one basketball was needed for an entire season...basketballs were relatively expensive and less likely to be owned by kids and if they did when the bladder tore or wore out the ball was probably just thrown away. Baseballs, bats and gloves are more durable and thus more likely to be kept.

I do have an old basketball uniform if you're interested...I think it's more 1950s though than prewar...send me an email if you want them.

[IMG][/IMG]

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Posted By: Jimmy Piccuito

Alan,

as you know I buy and sell all types of sports items and collect when I see something I really like. There was a lot of interest at the beginning of the year and now I have seen more interest in cards again. I think some folks will come around again for items they do not see all the time especially pre-war football and boxing items.

Jimmy

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

I'm not going to out any ebay auctions, but anyone interested in vintage basketball equipment needs to do a really good ebay search right now.

edited to add: No they are not my auctions....nor do I know the seller.

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Posted By: Aaron M.

Quality vintage (pre-1970) basketball memorabilia is virtually non-existent. Not that the items are particularly expensive, but there just wasn't really anything produced that was particularly attractive or unique. (I hate bobble-heads. )

Basketball programs and tickets are about the only things commonly available and virtually all of them are hopelessly generic looking (one of the reasons why I paid through the nose to get a pair of 1960's Cincinnati Royals cuff-links).

I honestly feel as though I own just about every piece of desirable NBA-related memorabilia from the late 1940's through 1969 (notwithstanding team issued championship rings and such) and all that amounts to is two all-star game programs, one all-star game ticket, a St. Louis Hawks ash-tray, a set of Syracuse Nationals glasses, an Aurora model kit of Jerry West, and a very small number of pinbacks (maybe 3 or 4 in all).

I have actually had to resort to supplementing my basketball memorabilia display with card-related items (a 1948 Bowman wrapper, a Gail Goodrich Carnation cut-out, a 1948 Bowman George Mikan grey-variation, and I just bought an unopened 1969 Topps wax pack).

About the only real great item out there that is particularly valuable I would love to own would be an unused NBA game ball from that period. I've only seen them publicly offered once (in a Hunt auction about 5 years ago).

In terms of game-worn material, vintage jerseys and shooting shirts and jackets are pretty rare, but on the plus side are usually very attractive and unless they belonged to a super-star, are not particularly expensive at all.

A good reference for all of this would be the current Grey Flannel auction. It is completely basketball related (it's a live auction to occur at the basketball HOF) and you can get a good picture of what the current market looks like.

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Posted By: Vincent

I've got a brother who's assembled a collection of bowling autographs that I'd consider world-class. As good, if not better, than that held by the Bowling Hall of Fame in St. Louis. Go ahead and snicker. But talk about having a tough time finding those vintage autographs. We went to the National Show in Cleveland and as usual, there were no vintage Bowling autographs to be found. Afew post-1960, but nothing else. I just tell him to keep looking, and keep selling occassionally on eBay. The eBay listings have led two significant collections to him, by individuals looking to liquidate estates. They are few are far between. But they have appeared, from time to time.

Keep collecting, whatever it may be.

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Posted By: Alan

Aaron -

I agree with you on some of what you said.

I have to disagree with you that there are no desirable items. On an earlier thread, I should have mentioned that there is, in fact, quality material - it's just that no one collects it or cares.

There is an enormous amount of memorabilia, particularly in some of the non-cards auction houses like Grey Flannel, Lelands, SCP, Hunt, Heritage, etc,... I mentioned the Grey Flannel auction on the new network54 basketball thread. I saw many of the items on display at the National & was quite impressed. That auction has an amazing amount of quality vintage memorabilia. It's in conjunction with the HOF inductions in September in Springfield.

Bob Cousy consigned all of his memorabilia to SCP Auctions a few years ago. Recently, James Naismith's grandaughter found a box of letters, documents, etc,... in the basement & consigned it to one of the auction houses (maybe Heritage ?). Then Lelands was selling a remainder of it that had not sold.

ABA memorabilia, although not that old, is extremely desirable.

I'm glad that you have an appreciation for vintage basketball memorabilia.

Alan

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Posted By: Alan

Vincent -

That sounds like a very nice collection that he has with bowling autographs. I, for one, am very impressed. As a collector of memorabilia of Jewish athletes in all sports, I have acquired autographs & correspondence of Jewish bowlers like Mark Roth & Marshall Holman.

Alan

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Posted By: Clint

My brother is a professional bowler. I picked this old inkwell up because it reminded me of Cap Anson.

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

Clint, now I know why your last name always sounded so familiar to me. I used to work in a bowling center when I was in college. At the time my brother who also worked there was roommates with Jeremy Sonnenfeld who bowled the first sanctioned 900.

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Posted By: Clint

Dan, small world. It usually takes me 5 games to reach 900. We spent many hours as kids in the bowling alley. My brother would practice while I worked in the baseball card shop in the basement of the bowling alley. My brother actually threw out some of my cards when we were little. I had a perfect 53 Topps Berra that I worked several weeks to buy that ended up in this group that got thrown away. It still kills me to think about it.

Alan, Mark Roth was my bowling idol as a kid.

To get back to the topic, I collect just about any of the major sports as long as it's old and fairly unique. I think that all sports have their fanatic collectors. Old golf and tennis equipment can be extremely valuable. I once sold a tennis ball can for $300. I've also seen Indian Clubs sell in the thousands for presentation type pieces. Basketball probably has the least amount of memorabilia available. Football has the helmets, noseguards, leather stacked cleats, union suits and friction stripped jerseys. This thread has shown that even bowling has it's following. I know the wooden bowling balls sell for a few hundred on ebay every once in awhile.

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

Did your brother throw them out on purpose? My brother who was mad at me for some long forgotten reason tore my 1965 Topps Ernie Banks card in half and then scooted the torn pieces from underneath his bedroom door. That was a bad day for my little brother.

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Posted By: Clint

Yes, but it was probably my fault. I kept them in a big box which sometimes would end up in the middle of our room. He got tired of tripping over it and threw it away. I lost all of my Star Wars cards as well. I just bought all five sets a couple of weeks ago.

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Posted By: Keith

Since we got on the topic of bowling, I figured I would share my bowling stuff. I have a rather large collection of Fred A Kail football statues, and while building the collection and becoming and a big fan of his work, I added 4 Kail bowling statues. I like the comical nature of Kail's sculpture work. Does anyone know of other Kail items other than his Football, bowling, and very rare baseball stuff? My bowling stuff consists of 2 ashtrays, 1 bank, and 1 coffee mug.