Peck & Snyder UPDATE !!

[Archive]

Posted By: Hal Lewis

As most of you know, the conversation last week was on whether the "original" Peck & Snyder store address in 1869 when the first "baseball cards" were issued was:

22 Ann Street (as indicated on the back of some cards); or

126 Nassau Street (as indicated on the back of other cards).

We found evidence that by the 1880's, the official address for Peck & Snyder's was "126, 128 & 130 Nassau Street" ... so there was no question that the Nassau Street address became a permanent address ...

but there was speculation that the Ann Street address was either another entrance to the SAME store ... or was maybe a previous location altogether.

WELL ... I just heard back from the librarian at the Library of Congress in Washington, D.C., who I had asked to please check and tell us the address that Peck & Snyder listed in their catalog from 1868 ... and here is the response:

************************************

Librarian 1:
Dear Mr. Lewis:

Thank you for visiting the Library of Congress web site.

The book contained the following address for Peck & Snyder Sporting Goods:

105 Nassau Street, New York

Best wishes,
The Digital Reference Team/am
Library of Congress

************************************

SO ... THERE IS STILL NO DEFINITIVE ANSWER ... BUT ...

If you check out a map of the area...

105 Nassau Street (ODD number address) IS on the SAME SIDE of the road as 22 Ann Street ... whereas 126 Nassau Street (EVEN Number address) is NOT.

Thus, there is NO WAY that 126 Nassau Street and 22 Ann Street were different entrances into the SAME store on the intersection of Ann & Nassau.

HOWEVER ... with the 1868 address of 105 Nassau Street ... which is clearly on the SAME side of the street as 22 Ann Street and is MUCH closer to the CORNER ... there is a VERY distinct possibility that THESE were different entrances into the SAME store (as they are only "30 paces" away from each other)!

Having found NOTHING in existence on the internet or anywhere to indicate that Peck & Snyders was ever at 22 Ann Street AFTER 1869 ... it really doesn't seem to support the assumption of Peck & Snyder possibly having TWO separates stores, one at EACH of the two addresses.

My conclusion: Either P&S started at 105 Nassau Street and moved to 22 Ann Street before finally ending up at 126 Nassau Street ... or 105 Nassau Street and 22 Ann Street were the SAME store.

[Archive]

Posted By: Hal Lewis

I have now discovered ANOTHER monkey wrench in the plans.

It turns out that "22 Ann Street" is NOT on the same side of the block as "105 Nassau Street" OR "126 Nassau Street."

105 Nassau Street is right near the corner of Nassau St. and Ann St. ... but it would be on the same corner as "21 Ann Street" (ODD-numbers for Ann Street) ... NOT the even numbers.

105 Nassau Street is a LOT closer to the 22 Ann Street address than the 126 Nassau Street address ... but NEITHER of them could be DIFFERENT entrances to the SAME store!!!

So as it now stands ...

my most logical explanation is that Peck & Snyder operated at 105 Nassau Street in 1867 and 1868, then moved to a larger store at 22 Ann Street sometime in 1868 or 1869, and then moved again to 126 Nassau Street in 1869 and stayed there for good.

But we may never know for sure.

[Archive]

Posted By: Julie Vognar

for sure?

[Archive]

Posted By: Anonymous

Here is some info I found that my be helpful. This individual's great grandmother worked for Peck & Snyder. He may have some info to fill in the blanks. His e-mail address is at the bottom. Good Luck. Go Gators!

David Harris' Peck & Snyder Antique Collectibles Page

I am working on my family genealogy and would like to find information or equipment that may have been manufactured by Peck and Snyder Sporting goods of New York City. Peck and Snyder was the largest sporting goods manufacturer in the 1870's and the 1880's. I believe Peck and Snyder began around 1859 by Andrew Peck and W. Irving Snyder.

My great grandmother Cornelia Snyder tied baseballs at their store which was a 6 story building on Nassau street just north of the stock exchange in New York. The address was listed as 126, 128 & 130 Nassau. I believe the current street numbers are off from what they were then. Peck and Snyder was bought by A. G. Spaulding around 1894 and it does not appear that Spaulding kept any of the brand name "Peck and Snyder" or "P & S."

In 1888, W. Irving Snyder accompanied A. G. Spaulding and two baseball teams for a trip around the world to promote baseball. Spaulding's Chicago team and an all-star team started their trip in the fall of 1888. They were accompanied by many news people, however I have not found very much written on their experiences. They traveled by train from Chicago to San Francisco, then on to Hawaii, Aulstralia, Egypt, France, and England. They returned to New York City two weeks late, after the baseball season had already started.

Peck and Snyder sold all types of sports equipment, games, uniforms, and fire fighting equipment. Much of the equipment appeared to have a "P & S" stamped on them. They sold such items as tennis rackets, baseballs, bats, fishing lures, and ice skates. I believe they even had patents on some products like their ice skates. At one time, they had an office in London, England. Some time after the store was sold, a brother Ward Snyder and Irving Snyder were both listed as having a fishing tackle store in New York in the early 1900's.

Catalogs were published each year of the products they sold. There is a reprint of Peck and Snyder catalog of 1886 that is out of print by Payne Press. It was printed in 1970 and is out of print. There were also smaller catalogs that are in the Library of Congress, one of which I have a copy from 1875. There are also originals on the antique market, 1870, 192 pages for $185, and an 1889, 275 pages for &1000.

Peck and Snyder sent a collection of 35 items of sporting goods to the Smithsonian in the 1880's for preservation. There are baseballs from Peck and Snyder in the Baseball Hall of Fame (Peck and Snyder "Dead Ball). There is a P&S spinning lure that is collected from the 1880's, but I am told that this is from the P&S Ball Bearing Company out of Whitehall, New York. I don't know if there is any connection.

This is about the extent of my knowledge of Peck and Snyder Sporting goods. I would like to find memorabilia or more information on the company. I would appreciate any information anyone might have about Peck and Snyder. Thank you.


David Harris d-harris@iserv.net

[Archive]

Posted By: Hal Lewis

Maybe he can ask his great-grandmother to answer our question the next time he uses his Ouija board??

[Archive]

Posted By: Hal Lewis

I am going to contact the New York Public Library and see what they might have in the library to research the "official" addresses for the Peck & Snyder store (or stores) in 1868 - 1870.

Maybe they have some "City Directories" or something like that?

I doubt that they have a New York City PHONE BOOK for 1869 ... since the telephone wasn't patented until 1871!

[Archive]

Posted By: Andy Baran

There is another possibility that we haven't discussed, which I am starting to think is as strong as any. We know that they operated a large retail outlet somewhere on Nassau street. Maybe they operated a separate corporate office or warehouse at the same time (possibly Ann St)? It might make sense that they would want all of their mail order operations to be in a seperate location.

[Archive]

Posted By: Hal Lewis

We know from the library of congress that they listed "105 Nassau Street" as their mailing address in their 1868 catalog...

but there is no doubt that they might very well have had an office at "22 Ann Street" during that time as well...

and maybe even a third at "126 Nassau Street."

I will see if the NYPL has any OLD newspapers on microfiche so that we can look through them for Peck & Snyder ads containing addresses.

Then again ... if you believe in the "dual offices" theory ... then finding an ad with either address will NOT rule out the other.

**Maybe I can find a "We're Moving!" sale advertisement that says:

"Come get baseballs for 5 cents ... we have to sell them all before we pack up and close down our Ann Street store and move to our new address at 126 Nassau Street!"

[Archive]

Posted By: Dave

Hal,
Baseballs were not 5 cents back then. In 1874 Peck & Snyder sold 2000 dozen of their professional "Dead Balls" at a price of $15.00 a dozen.

[Archive]

Posted By: barrysloate

Peck & Snyder also began publishing the Haney guide in 1869. In that year they included a 12 page catalog in the back with sporting goods that could be bought in their store; I'm sure that is the reason they purchased the guide. They also included a large handcolored poster folded into the front cover of the book that a merchant could hang in his store. I suppose their products could be found in other parts of the city. I actually bought an 1869 Haney guide that still had the poster affixed to the cover. No one had removed it for 130 years. I had it restored and it is one of the few pieces I still have kept from my original collection. It is quite striking, with caps, belts, and four men dressed in full baseball regalia. One of my all-time favorite finds.

[Archive]

Posted By: Hal Lewis

Do you have any way of showing the poster to us?

It sounds great!

Is it "drawings" or "photographs" of men in uniforms??

PS - Any street address listed anywhere on the Haney Guide or the poster for Peck & Snyder??

[Archive]

Posted By: barrysloate

I have a photograph of the poster and if my wife can figure out how to scan it and put it on the network, I can do it. My computer skills are as if I were still living in 1869. It's a miracle I can even negotiate the network54 board. The poster is handcolored in ink, and from what I understand, it was done assembly line- one person added the blue ink, next the red, next the yellow, etc. I no longer have the Haney guide, I sold it years ago. There is a picture of a similar but not quite as elaborate poster in John Kashmanian's book Baseball Treasures (page 78). His actually has the address and company name on it- 105 Nassau Street; mine does not say "Peck & Snyder" but the guide clearly was issued by them, and the 12 page catalog has a caption which read "see our full color poster in the front of this book" or something to that effect. His appears to be a bit later than mine (have we determined that from the address). Mine is unquestionably 1869,and more elaborate, since it came from that book. If you have Rob Lifson's July 15, 2000 auction catalog, and take a look at lot #871, the book on the extreme left of the picture is the one that had my poster glued into it. Over the next couple of days I'll try to put a picture on this thread, but I can't tonight. If unable, I'll make you a color photocopy and send it to you as soon as I can.

[Archive]

Posted By: Hal Lewis

PS - If his poster says "105 Nassau Street" ... then unfortunately it may be a year older than yours ... as that is Peck & Snyder's 1868 address according to the Library of Congress. This would fit in with yours being the slightly newer and therefore more elaborate poster.

Can't wait to see it!

[Archive]

Posted By: barrysloate

Maybe I'll just make you a color photocopy tomorrow morning and mail it. That might be easier. Interesting, that they put their name and address on the poster in 1868, but issued it in 1869 with no actual store identification. I've never come up with a satisfactory explanantion for that. Why would a business advertise a product yet not put their name on it? Once it is taken out of the book, it loses its context.

[Archive]

Posted By: Hal Lewis

Perhaps the answer has something to do with this thread, i.e., they knew that they would be moving from 105 Nassau Street to 22 Ann Street TEMPORARILY and knew that they would eventually be moving to a larger store ... but did not yet know the new address?

If nothing else, we know that they were clearly in a period of "transition" with three different store locations in a one year period.

[Archive]

Posted By: barrysloate

That's a really interesting theory- and might actually explain it. Because of the transition, they chose to leave it blank. Perhaps they weren't sure if they were staying or leaving, with all the complications involved. Well done Hal. I'm impressed.

[Archive]

Posted By: Hal Lewis

I just ordered the Kashmanian book on-line. Looking forward to reading it!

I don't know if HE is the "mystery gentleman" or not ... and don't expect you to tell us ... but I would certainly love to visit Kashmanian's collection in person some day!

[Archive]

Posted By: barrysloate

No he isn't, but he does have a really nice collection. But I've never had any rapport whatsoever with him. I spoke to the mystery man yesterday and he prefers his low profile.