New T206 Collector Seeking Advice!

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Posted By: Ray

Before I ask my questions, I feel I should introduce myself to the members here. I'm a 27 year old who loves hockey and baseball. I used to collect cards from all the major sports until about 92-93 when there just became an influx of junk on the market. Went to Cooperstown this August, and the visit made me passionate about collecting again. But I decided to focus on tobacco cards, particularly the T206 set. I have purchased 8 common cards on ebay all without any problems. Being 27 and a teacher, my income doesn't allow me to get too crazy in my spending habits just yet. So I set a few guidelines for myself: 1. Don't buy graded commons. 2. Try to collect as many different backs as possible along the way. The collect is for me and my wife to enjoy, I would never sell it, only pass it down to my children someday. I don't see there being a problem financially to obtain any cards in the future but the Wagner, Magie, Doyle NL, and Plank. My questions are as follows:

1. How important is it to own a card with a "rare" back if attempting to construct a set?
2. Is ebay the best way to obtain cards? I live in NJ/NY area.
3. How many T206 cards are actually out there? How many people have tried to make a set and have failed due to supply and demand?
4. What is considered to be a full set? Every source gives a different number!!!

Any advice you can offer me is greatly appreciated!

Regards,
Ray Piskadlo

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Posted By: ty_cobb

1) I don't think it's important at all to construct
a set with rare backs. Most people would do it as a
'subset' like on my website
http://members.shaw.ca/bluemanitou/page1.htm

I collected a portion of the set in the early 80s without
regard to back ads quite happily though, but I see it
as a seperate endeavour.

2) eBay can be good after major lots in Mastro or
other auction houses are broken up. Other than that
I like to buy from people I know, and it's always
good to make trading acquaintances.

3) there is still good supply of T206 cards, maybe
in excess of 2 million cards (I'm guesstimating here...)

4) I would go by SCD ( the Standard Catalog) as a guideline of a full set, but to each their own...

5) other notes: I wouldn't disregard other sets just
because the T206 Plank or Wagner are too expensive.
Now is the time to look at an E95 Wagner or Plank
...these are a relatively good value.

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Posted By: Morrie

Ray,

I just decided to get "serious" about collecting t206's, though I'm going the low-grade route (I'm an educator, too). My perspective on the answers to your questions may thus be different from others', but I don't think there are any definite rights and wrongs on this.

1. If all you care about is one card of each player/pose, then the backs are irrelevant. I view them as icing on the cake. A Cobb would fill the same hole in my set if it had an Uzit back as if it had a SC 350. If, on the other hand, you want to have at least one of each back represented in your set, that's cool. How important the backs are is up to you. There are hundreds of ways to collect the t206 set, and unless you're going for every possible combination of fronts/backs, I wouldn't worry too much about the ads.

2. eBay is a pretty good way to buy cards, although it's unpredictable. You hear horror stories about people buying trimmed cards off eBay, but I've bought 20+ t206's off eBay and never had one that looked trimmed, while the second one I ever bought at a card show was. My personal favorite is the old reliable - huge flea markets. Maybe I just got lucky, but I went to one this summer and met a dealer who was trying to unload a stack (50-60) of t205's in painful low-grade. I bought them all (no stars), and then when he decided to sell all his t206's, I was the first person he called. I bought over a hundred of them, skipping his Walter Johnson because of the erased pencil writing on the front and the 4 spots of paper loss on the back, where it had been removed from the album. He wanted more for that one card than I paid for the whole rest of the pile. I don't know how often that happens, but this once is enough for me to keep going back and looking at the flea markets.

3 & 4. I think Ty answered this one. There seem to be plenty, and the SCD catalog is comprehensive.

Good luck!

Morrie

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Posted By: Bob D

Ray,

Great post!

1) I think it would be great to have as many different backs as possible. It adds to the fun as sometimes you can get a fairly rare back for a decent price although I think that's changing as people are now paying closer attention to the backs.

2) I collect VERY low grade cards. I've got about 60% of my cards from ebay, usually as part of lots. I've gotten about 30% as part by trading my dups with other collectors. It's tough to find them at local card shows although sometimes it's possible to pick a bargain up from someone who specializes in 50-60's cards and just has a few they want to get rid of. Too often someone will have 1 T206 on a table in F-P and priced at high book.

3) I believe there are 1-2 million cards. Completing a set should be feasible other than the few true rarities. I have about 320 cards, those that were and am 41 yrs old. My plan is to have all the commons by the time I've put the kids through school, buying 10-15 a year. As I near retirement, assuming I'm in good shape financially, I'll shell out for the Cobbs and maybe upgrade some of my real beatup HOFs. So my collection will be a lifetime pursuit. Can't take the money with you!

4) You've reached a full set when YOU think you've reached a full set.

Happy Collecting!

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Posted By: Tiger3boy

Strange how many teachers collect this set.

A complete set would be nice, but for those of us without a big bank account I would suggest collecting a team set for the team you follow. Once you finish the set you can go back and add better quality examples, and different backs.

The Hall of Fame collection was pretty inspirational to me too. Now I just want some of those uniforms.

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Posted By: Brueso

Both of these issues (Obaks were tobacco, and for caramel cards, you have the E92, E90-1, etc. series) are also great looking and have great designs. The Obak series is full of designs like the T206 where you basically have a player out in a field (not a baseball field- an actual field) often with beautiful orange skies- definitely the "Field of Dreams" effect. They're pretty psychedelic, especially considering when they were made, and generally there's a little less competition. The Obak series depicts players from the Pacific Coast minor league system and E92s, etc. depict MLB players.

If you end up putting together a "back variations" subset, you also might want to look at picking up a card or two from the T213 series, which used some (all?) T206 player designs but had Coupon cigarette backings.

I never pursued a complete T206 collection- but I did put together the subset of horizonatal layout cards (6) and a lot of the ones with the orange skies.

If you check on the web, you can find sites that have images of all the cards in the T206 series. I think the excellant Library of Congress site of baseball cards might have that set?

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Posted By: Maxx

Ray,

First I would like to say welcome to the point of no return. The T206 set has a way of taking people hostage and not letting go. I have been collecting them for 17yrs now. Even though I can remember every card in the set from memory I never get tired of looking for them or looking at them. All of the posts here will be correct in giving you advice, or how is the best way to obtain a set. After 17yrs I finished my T206 set two years ago this November.

I can give you some advice and examples of how I went about obtaining the set. I hope this helps.

Ray Writes:

1. How important is it to own a card with a "rare" back if attempting to construct a set?


In my opinion and I’m sure some would disagree. Not very important at all. I never made it an issue when I first started. It was only when I got closer to finishing the set, that if I saw a back I didn’t own at the right price I try to get it.

Analogy: If your life goal is to own a certain model Ferrari no one would fault you if you didn’t own all six colors there were produced in.


It’s only important if you make part of your pursuit. If you want to own a type card of all T206’s as they were issued from 1909-1911 including all the tobacco manufactures they were issued with, then go for it. Otherwise all the cards with Piedmont backs are still a set.
(Don’t beat me up on the Demmit & O’Hara cards you serious collectors.)


2. Is ebay the best way to obtain cards? I live in NJ/NY area.


Yes and no I feel in many ways there are a lot less cards than most collectors think. I also think that these cards are more popular than ever and become harder each year to find. Demand is at an all time high and supply of even decent collector grade cards is at a low. Also because there are so many new collectors who really don’t understand the hobby and what they are collecting, due to lack of education. Ebay prices on cards sometimes go for twice what they are worth. Sometimes these cards go for investment prices for cards that are below investment quality. However with that said Ebay can be a wonderful place to watch for that hard to come by common or mis-listed lot that goes for a good and fair price.

Get a good working relationship with reputable dealers they exist. Think of them like brokers ask to see a portfolio of some type, feedback from other collectors and ask around. Find one you like and explain your situation believe it or not these guys sell a lot more collector grade cards than they do mint museum pieces. Tell them what your trying to do they make a living to trying to help guys like you and me. When it comes to buying cards for your set I followed these rules when I started buy commons and more commons. Star cards will always be available that Cobb bat off will be there when you need it, however that damn Weimer port. May not. This is not as fun but seems to work much better. Don’t nickel and dime it. What I mean is the one card at a time stuff is fun but will break you. Save your pennies until you have a sizable chunk of change your willing to part with. Then go and hunt lots at card shows and from your dealer friends you have made, or wait for that low-grade auction house lot. You get more when buying bulk than one at time. If the lot has dupes sell or trade the extras and recoup some of your investment.


3. How many T206 cards are actually out there? How many people have tried to make a set and have failed due to supply and demand?


This is a real tough question I wouldn’t even begin to guess. There are a lot of factors here how many cards are floating in the open market for sale vs. how many cards are stuck in private collections. Not to mention if we keep counting the same cards over and over again. I do know that I follow the auction houses and webs and see a number of the same t206’s surfacing 2-3 in the same year. I do feel however obtaining a set in collector grade is possible it will take lots of time and patience though. Oh and a little luck as well.


4. What is considered to be a full set? Every source gives a different number!!!


I also follow the SCD. I however consider my set somewhat finished even though I do not own the Plank, Magie, Wagner and Doyle. I really won’t consider it fully done until Plank, Magie, Wagner are added. I’m still up in the air on the Doyle card personally if it was really issued like the others, same goes true for Cobb/Cobb back.


That’s my take on your questions I hope it helped. I would just like to wish you luck in your future endeavor and all the best of luck.




Maxx

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Posted By: Maxx

Ray,

Here is also a lot you may want to watch.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2758191341&category=31719&rd=1

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Posted By: ockday

Hi Ray..As one who has completed the T206 set (minus the big 4) I will pass along some of my experiences.
I started about 3 years ago buying single cards but when the opportunity to buy big lots came along , I did just that. I bought a couple of ungraded lots from some of the online auctions like Lew Lipset and Mastro. My preference was to have them graded by PSA, so when I got them back I was somewhat disappointed in that the grades I got were usually less than what they were advertised as.I filled in the balance of the set mainly with Ebay purchases . I found that all the cards are out there and all you need are patience, diligence and of course the money .
When buying ungraded cards , I learned that some dealers overgrade and some are accurate and I took that into account when buying. Also be very careful when buying ungraded as there are many trimmed or altered cards out there.My personal favorite dealer for ungraded tobacco cards is Vivian Barning. Her Ebay id is vbarning@aol.com .
Personally I didn't go after the rare backs but maybe will someday. I am also in the NY area and the shows and stores here are pretty dismal in this area.
Good luck and have fun in this quest...Regards..Alan

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Posted By: B Kaz

Ray,

I started getting into the t206 set about a year ago. I knew I loved the colors, the pictures, the idea of nearly 100 year old tobacco cards, and the great era of baseball that it was. I had only one problem...where the heck do I start. Like you I bought a few low end, inexpensive cards to see what they were like. I loved them. I then happened along this forum, and it has given me so much valuable information about collecting. Especially how to spot fakes, and auctions to avoid. I started with the hopes of getting a full set, but it being so large, and funding being less than I would like, I decided to focus on Hall of Famer portraits (irregardless of back). From there I will likely branch out into other areas but for the time being it allowed me to collect from the 10ft view rather than the 30,000ft view.

I would invest in some of the books available as well like T-206 Monster and others. They helped me understand the history of the t206 set. Good luck to you, and thank you to all the great experts this forum offers us!

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Posted By: Lee Behrens

Maxx has some great points, but I think there is some confusion in referancing "investment grade". That to me is as subjectable as grading. I feel the whole set no matter what grade is an "investment". As most people on this board now I do not normally go out and buy EX or better cards, just cards I feel are presentable. I like alot of people on this board have limited resources (sometimes that damn credit card), so I am not big into buying high end cards, I prefer quantity over quality.

As far as the investment part, I wish I would have waited a year to sell off my "low end" dupes, they have at least doubled in price since then. I have had alot of success in reselling low grade cards for a profit, I believe that that makes them an investment. I have had my worst resell when it comes to reselling big players such as Cobb.

At this time from watching ebay I would purchase the HOFers they have not seemend to reflect the recent increase that the commons have shown in the last couple of months.

As far as the backs if you have limited resources, don't worry for now, they can become spendy.

Most of all, BUY WHAT YOU LIKE, not what you think might make you money in the future.

Good Luck in your venture and be patient.

Lee

bowlingshoegiverouterguy

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Posted By: TBob

If you start collecting the T206 set, stay far, far away from any T207s. That is the most addictive set I have ever encountered and will drive you absolutely crazy trying to complete it. The set is not for everybody, some hate it for the low % of HOFers and high % of scarce cards, but others (including yours truly) love the set for its moody almost surrealistic appearance. On the other hand, the T205 set is perhaps the most gorgeous of all tobacco card sets and is readily available, as are the T206 cards.
Good luck on your collecting! Be patient and get the cards in the 206 set you want. There are enough of them out there that you can wait and find one in exactly the condition you need.