Helmar cards

[rjackson44]

What is your opinion on them?

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by rjackson44

What is your opinion on them?

I don't collect them but they're neat cards and the designs are fantastic. You can tell the guy behind them cares a lot about the history of baseball.

[jingram058]

I've got a pretty high opinion of them. But be advised. They're made in very limited numbers, and they can be very pricey. But I guess that's what makes them collectable. They're really good looking and well made. I have more Banty Red than Helmar, but I like them both. I have a small binder of the ones I have.

[drumback]

I collect the Helmar cabinet cards. They are really beautiful cards, much more impressive in hand than they appear online. They are VERY thick - you will be surprised, and the images are actually glued on to the backboard, just like the cabinets from the nineteenth century. The size is 4 x 6. Also, they are a limited edition of twenty for each card. Here are a few of mine:

I recommend you check out their website. A great assortment of things to see. They have an auction every Tuesday night.

BTW, the color and design on the McGraw is correct. The Giants really did wear those in 1916.

[MJRaider]

nm

[rjackson44]

Originally Posted by drumback

I collect the Helmar cabinet cards. They are really beautiful cards, much more impressive in hand than they appear online. They are VERY thick - you will be surprised, and the images are actually glued on to the backboard, just like the cabinets from the nineteenth century. The size is 4 x 6. Also, they are a limited edition of twenty for each card. Here are a few of mine:

I recommend you check out their website. A great assortment of things to see. They have an auction every Tuesday night.

BTW, the color and design on the McGraw is correct. The Giants really did wear those in 1916.

Wow thank you mark those are stunning,I’ll buy some cabinets now for display.very pretty.

[GregMitch34]

Indeed, Charles, the owner and designer, is fantastic guy and ethical and vitally interested in history (even my own books). Dozens of designs now, from t206 size to large and thick and pre-distressed cabinets. I am selling a few of different variety if anyone is interested.

[Fred]

I've never purchased one of these modern Helmar cards. Initially, I thought they were horrible because people that don't know vintage cards may not read the entire item descriptions and not understand what it is they're going to receive.

With the above said, I think the person that is creating them is doing a nice job because these fantasy cards are what people would probably collect if they were in fact, vintage.

Nice looking, but not so much for me.

[Lucas00]

The print quality and colors are both extremely high quality. The name spelling needs a bit of work though 😂.

The detail in the Rolled lace glove is a phenomenal touch imo.
Definitely recommend them.

[Rich Klein]

at least when they started, and I will presume this is still true, they use really good sports artists to do the work. I think they are very attractive for the most part and a good addition to a vintage collection with a modern twist And in many cases, if you can't afford the vintage cards, this makes a nice sub with the older style paintings.

Rich

[nwobhm]

Do they take requests? There are many a player that never had a card, those I would buy.

[bbcard1]

I think they are attractive, but not really cards because of age and licensing. If I bought one (and would if the right subject appeared) it would require a different mental head space than my "cards" purchases.

[GregMitch34]

Another cabinet-sized sample

https://www.net54baseball.com/attach...1&d=1702308218

[D. Bergin]

I don't have any of them, but I do like them a lot.

[jingram058]

Another card maker, Banty Red, produces high-quality cards as well. They don't seem to sell as high as Helmar, but have quite a following. The Banty Reds I have came from Etsy, before inflation due to Covid. They seem to be exclusive to eBay these days. They aren't for everyone, and unlike Helmar, they use photography and colorized photography rather than paintings. I like the ones I have; they fill a niche in my collection. But I am leery of the way they both are auctioned on eBay. Maybe I'm wrong, but something just doesn't appear to be on the up and up with these auctions.

[JustinD]

Not going to beat a dead horse as there is plenty, especially in the early days of me exposing the fraud of specifically one company. I see no real actual value in any of them, but if someone likes it for fun and no investment than please go ahead.

I just really have serious reservations about the producers of these that age product and purposely leave off production dates (especially when using the name of an actual vintage card producer to throw off google searches). I have seen these misrepresented on the secondary market far more times than I can count. If they are "art", they should be originals, if we are going for prints as semantics then the artist should be signing or credited and they should be dated.

Oh, and only one started off misrepresenting the product as some legit issue for a product premium, when it was easily found it was the other way around by creating tiny subcontracted product runs with no distribution contracts to legitimize the premise of this being some food issue.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by JustinD

Not going to beat a dead horse as there is plenty, especially in the early days of me exposing the fraud of specifically one company. I see no real actual value in any of them, but if someone likes it for fun and no investment than please go ahead.

I just really have serious reservations about the producers of these that age product and purposely leave off production dates (especially when using the name of an actual vintage card producer to throw off google searches). I have seen these misrepresented on the secondary market far more times than I can count. If they are "art", they should be originals, if we are going for prints as semantics then the artist should be signing or credited and they should be dated.

Oh, and only one started off misrepresenting the product as some legit issue for a product premium, when it was easily found it was the other way around by creating tiny subcontracted product runs with no distribution contracts to legitimize the premise of this being some food issue.

The part I made bold above is why I absolutely hate these cards.

When it comes to custom/homemade or whatever you want to call them cards I absolutely love them. There just has to be a way of telling they are new and not vintage/real. Making them look vintage with a real vintage name and not putting a modern date on them is the opposite of how I like my custom cards.

[Ray Van]

Originally Posted by JustinD

I just really have serious reservations about the producers of these that age product and purposely leave off production dates (especially when using the name of an actual vintage card producer to throw off google searches). I have seen these misrepresented on the secondary market far more times than I can count. If they are "art", they should be originals, if we are going for prints as semantics then the artist should be signing or credited and they should be dated.

Most, if not all, of the Helmar cards are identified with production dates on the backs to avoid confusion with vintage cards. I enjoy the cards and have collected a few over the years to add to certain player collections I have. The artwork is top notch and you can see the effort and love that Charles puts into the cards.

[Ray Van]

Originally Posted by nwobhm

Do they take requests? There are many a player that never had a card, those I would buy.

Not sure about requests, but they have produced cards of many players that never had a card before (including House of David and International Stars). You can do a search on their website of everything they've produced - and clicking on a player's name takes you to a nice gallery of all their Helmar cards.

https://helmarbrewing.com/players/

[milkit1]

Charles is a great guy and many years ago I helped write the back of some of the Goudey and T202 series cards. I personally really like the team postcards that used T206 images. They are made with wood and have a really cool 3d effect

[Gorditadogg]

Originally Posted by Lucas00

The print quality and colors are both extremely high quality. The name spelling needs a bit of work though 😂.

The detail in the Rolled lace glove is a phenomenal touch imo.
Definitely recommend them.

Key card for your Schoendist collection.

[Keith H. Thompson]

I would ever be interested in a modern artist's depiction of anyone, but have come to realize that talented artists can offer great art, even in copies. For collectors, nothing competes with original photographs or the artwork on Goudey for example, but I bought a Helmar cabinet of Charlie Gehringer because the artist has captured his likeness in a way that I think is perfect.

[Brian Van Horn]

Enjoyable.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by rjackson44

What is your opinion on them?

They are very nice for other collectors to collect.
.

[eliotdeutsch]

I hate to say it. Im struggling to see how they are any better than using AI to generate a famous baseball image and then making a high resolution print?

This can all be done at virtually no cost.

[John1941]

Originally Posted by eliotdeutsch

I hate to say it. Im struggling to see how they are any better than using AI to generate a famous baseball image and then making a high resolution print?

This can all be done at virtually no cost.

They're well-designed - very visually attractive. I really doubt AI would come up with anything close to Helmar cards. Also, (I don't own any Helmars myself) but it seems like physically they are nicer than mere hi-res prints.

[Lucas00]

Originally Posted by John1941

They're well-designed - very visually attractive. I really doubt AI would come up with anything close to Helmar cards. Also, (I don't own any Helmars myself) but it seems like physically they are nicer than mere hi-res prints.

Ai couldn't come close at this point in time. The attention to detail (E.g the rolled lace glove on my Red that I shared) and wide variety of players is definitely beyond its capability. We're talking tons of Negro league and obscure 19th century players that don't even have images when googled. You need a human hand to make this quality.

[eliotdeutsch]

I think you’re underestimating AI.

You can feed it an image. Which is no different than Helmar imagery, based on existing images.

But if you like them. Collect them I guess.

[Lucas00]

Originally Posted by eliotdeutsch

I think you’re underestimating AI.

You can feed it an image. Which is no different than Helmar imagery, based on existing images.

But if you like them. Collect them I guess.

There is always something inhuman about Ai art at this point in time. If it can't even do a standard human right, there's no way in hell it could get the intricate details and quality of a historical baseball image. Go feed any ai image generator a helmar card or a script of what you want it to create. Watch the monstrosities it creates that are not even on the same planet of quality.

But I have no doubt it may reach that point one day.

Here's the best I can currently do after spending a while.
Tried to do something helmar might actually make, babe Ruth and satchel paige. Let's just say.... It's not there yet.

[brianp-beme]

The Babe does look fairly decent, with a distinct Muhammad Ali vibe. And Satchell...perhaps a combination of Ernie Banks and Gary Coleman?

Brian

Originally Posted by Lucas00

Tried to do something helmar might actually make, babe Ruth and satchel paige. Let's just say.... It's not there yet.

[Republicaninmass]

created to intentionally deceive. hard pass

[Lucas00]

Originally Posted by brianp-beme

The Babe does look fairly decent, with a distinct Muhammad Ali vibe. And Satchell...perhaps a combination of Ernie Banks and Gary Coleman?

Brian

Yea, babes not bad. But I expected that because there are so many images of reference for Ai to use. The main issues are the logos seemingly turned into hieroglyphics and satchels glove seemingly designed for a webbed foot. As well as baseball bats floating in the sky behind them.

[JollyElm]

Not a fan of AI whatsoever. I mean, look at how perfectly centered their Babe Ruth creation is!!!

Helmarsbaberuth.jpg

[jingram058]

Originally Posted by JollyElm

Not a fan of AI whatsoever. I mean, look at how perfectly centered their Babe Ruth creation is!!!

Attachment 601387

Holy smokes! THAT, sir, is what I'm talking about!

[Brian Van Horn]

Originally Posted by JollyElm

Not a fan of AI whatsoever. I mean, look at how perfectly centered their Babe Ruth creation is!!!

Attachment 601387

The one time I looked at a "Babe Ruth" card and it reminded to check the air pressure in my tires.

[DeafSports]

I have requested them to come up with T3 of Dummy Taylor and they did. I won it on eBay for 70 dollars and it was worth it!

[ejharrington]

I love them and Banty Red too.

[RCFire82]

I feel like the t206 Helmars are decent. Not sure how, but they have an old smell to them as well. (Have these currently available on Facebook groups)

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass

created to intentionally deceive. hard pass

This statement is false.

[jingram058]

Originally Posted by G1911

This statement is false.

+1. That's totally false.

[rjackson44]

+2 totaly false

[rjackson44]

Thank you everyone that’s what makes net 54 fun..im gonna get some cabinets for my office.No big deal

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by G1911

This statement is false.

Originally Posted by jingram058

+1. That's totally false.

Originally Posted by rjackson44

+2 totaly false

The person who makes them is a member on here. He has made a lot of "Vintage" cards with no dates. He quit posting on here because so many members were calling him out for exactly that.

Has he changed that aspect? I have no idea as I just make my own custom cards. If he has awesome. I know I looked at the auction page from his website and it didn't take long to find a card he was selling that looked vintage without any type of modern date on it.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by bnorth

The person who makes them is a member on here. He has made a lot of "Vintage" cards with no dates. He quit posting on here because so many members were calling him out for exactly that.

Has he changed that aspect? I have no idea as I just make my own custom cards. If he has awesome. I know I looked at the auction page from his website and it didn't take long to find a card he was selling that looked vintage without any type of modern date on it.

I cannot imagine how absolutely stupid one has to be to believe these cards which are not reprints whatsoever and on modern stock and sold as modern cards with an art style different from period cards are real vintage items. At some point, morons are responsible for being stupid.

These cards are obviously not meant to intentionally deceive, and claiming they are is a dishonest lie.

I have never bought a Helmar and will never.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by G1911

I cannot imagine how absolutely stupid one has to be to believe these cards which are not reprints whatsoever and on modern stock and sold as modern cards with an art style different from period cards are real vintage items. At some point, morons are responsible for being stupid.

These cards are obviously not meant to intentionally deceive, and claiming they are is a dishonest lie.

I have never bought a Helmar and will never.

I 100% agree on the bold part but come on they look more real than 99% of the cards pictured in the "Look out for ----- card" on eBay threads. Better yet the is this rookie Mantle real? threads.

EDIT: To add I do not in any way think the guy making the cards is trying to deceive anyone. It is others who buy his cards because some of them are not dated.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by bnorth

I 100% agree on the bold part but come on they look more real than 99% of the cards pictured in the "Look out for ----- card" on eBay threads. Better yet the is this rookie Mantle real? threads.

EDIT: To add I do not in any way think the guy making the cards is trying to deceive anyone. It is others who buy his cards because some of them are not dated.

I don't know why you're quoting post 39 and complaining about the seller if you agree with the statement made, as you say here in your edit.

Which Helmar card takes more than a second glance to tell is not from c. 1888-1952?

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by G1911

I don't know why you're quoting post 39 and complaining about the seller if you agree with the statement made, as you say here in your edit.

Which Helmar card takes more than a second glance to tell is not from c. 1888-1952?

Quoted because not all their cards are dated.

Sadly not everyone is the absolute expert on cards you are. I am sure the exact same people than need to know if the rookie Mantles are real. Same for those listings about eBay counterfeit cards on eBay. There are some people that obviously can't tell even horrible fakes from real let alone modern cards using a vintage name.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by bnorth

Quoted because not all their cards are dated.

Sadly not everyone is the absolute expert on cards you are. I am sure the exact same people than need to know if the rookie Mantles are real. Same for those listings about eBay counterfeit cards on eBay. There are some people that obviously can't tell even horrible fakes from real let alone modern cards using a vintage name.

One does not need to be an expert in order to tell the incredibly obvious. When has Helmar reprinted a real card? When has Helmar made a card that could reasonably be mistaken for a real card? They change the designs a bit, add features not on original cards, the art style is completely different from any real set of the period, they look nothing like a real one whatsoever.

I went on their site for a few minutes and poked around for the closest card I could find to a real one. Can you tell the difference between these two? Do I need to identify which is which? Do you think any person of sound mind could possibly not tell the difference? I pray people are not genuinely this stupid.

[Republicaninmass]

Originally Posted by G1911

I cannot imagine how absolutely stupid one has to be to believe these cards which are not reprints whatsoever and on modern stock and sold as modern cards with an art style different from period cards are real vintage items. At some point, morons are responsible for being stupid.

These cards are obviously not meant to intentionally deceive, and claiming they are is a dishonest lie.

I have never bought a Helmar and will never.

Why are they illegally using images of deceased players and making it look old timey with no dates.

They don't even brew beer, it's made up to sell Laser printed cards.they took the original helmer tobacco name to confuse people

People question if they are period.


How the actual F am I lying?

It's plain as the nose on your face. Maybe not to astute n54ers, but your average person could think they are buying a helmar tobacco card.

[G1911]

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass

Why are they illegally using images of deceased players and making it look old timey with no dates.

They don't even brew beer, it's made up to sell Laser printed cards.they took the original helmer tobacco name to confuse people

People question if they are period.


How the actual F am I lying?

It's plain as the nose on your face. Maybe not to astute n54ers, but your average person could think they are buying a helmar tobacco card.

You're lying because you are making a blatantly false claim that any reasonable person would know is false. The cards are absolutely not meant to deceive. Look at their site and listings for 5 seconds. There is no chicanery or dishonesty. Even a complete moron can separate these in 1 second from 'real' cards. They make no secret whatsoever they are modern creations, in fact they do the opposite of pretend they are period.

They don't even brew beer; it's a fake brand for a design. Clue #1,000 that's it is not from 1910? Duh.

This is not difficult to figure out. As always we have a couple people bullshitting with a clearly false narrative