OT: Ohtani

[Jim65]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

So Hideo Nomo's ROY, most strikeouts in first three seasons of a career, leading each league in K's, and two no-hitters didn't do that???

I think the general thoughts around baseball at the time, was that Japanese pitchers could be successful in MLB but Japanese hitters could never have the same success. Ichiro and Hideki Matsui changed that perception.

[packs]

I'm still not convinced on Nomo. He was obviously talented and had two great seasons to start his career but despite what everyone is saying I remember Nomo coming and going. When he came over it was huge news but the Yankees started their dynasty in 1996 and I don't remember a lot of Nomo talk after.

I would however say the situation was much different vis a vis Livan Hernandez. I think Cuban players owe a lot to Livan and their status in the game as prospective MLB stars was cemented when he came over and won the World Series and World Series MVP honors.

His brother was one of the most ruthless post season pitchers I've ever seen too. Orlando had ice in his veins.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by seanofjapan

Team name is “Fighters”.

“Nippon Ham” is the team’s corporate owner.

Spam needs to get a team too

[BobC]

Funny how with all this talk about who was first, not a soul has even mentioned Masanori Murakami. Always liked his 1965 Topps rookie card.

And before all you naysayers start jumping in and going on about how he didn't cause more Japanese players to suddenly start coming to the U.S. and playing in the majors, that isn't my point. It is simply that he was the first, and as such, he does deserve some recognition.

[BobC]

Sorry, system doing multiple posts again.

[BobC]

And a triple post no less. Ugh!

[itjclarke]

Originally Posted by packs

I'm still not convinced on Nomo. He was obviously talented and had two great seasons to start his career but despite what everyone is saying I remember Nomo coming and going. When he came over it was huge news but the Yankees started their dynasty in 1996 and I don't remember a lot of Nomo talk after.

I would however say the situation was much different vis a vis Livan Hernandez. I think Cuban players owe a lot to Livan and their status in the game as prospective MLB stars was cemented when he came over and won the World Series and World Series MVP honors.

His brother was one of the most ruthless post season pitchers I've ever seen too. Orlando had ice in his veins.

I think Nomo hype being compared to the Yankee dynasty, or the first Cuban players is totally beside the point. It's not like anyone's arguing he was the biggest thing in all baseball, but he was huge in the Asian/Asian American community. And Nomo as a single pitcher who proved that Japanese players could be hugely valuable on MLB rosters is the main point. If there had been a perception pre-Nomo that Japanese could be successful, I think it's totally stunted if he doesn't actually succeed. And I think that also sets the hitters back.

BTW- Murakami isn't forgotten on me. He was a trailblazer for sure, but he supposedly got homesick and went back after his single MLB season. In turn, we didn't seen another Japanese player for 30 years. I think that's telling when it comes to importance of "the first". Had Murakami stuck around, broke into the rotation and had a 10+ year MLB career, I suspect many others would have followed much sooner.

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by BobC

Funny how with all this talk about who was first, not a soul has even mentioned Masanori Murakami. Always liked his 1965 Topps rookie card.

And before all you naysayers start jumping in and going on about how he didn't cause more Japanese players to suddenly start coming to the U.S. and playing in the majors, that isn't my point. It is simply that he was the first, and as such, he does deserve some recognition.

I don't know anything about Murakami. Was he highly touted at the time? Was he a top pitcher in Japan? Enquiring minds want to know.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by itjclarke

I think Nomo hype being compared to the Yankee dynasty, or the first Cuban players is totally beside the point. It's not like anyone's arguing he was the biggest thing in all baseball, but he was huge in the Asian/Asian American community. And Nomo as a single pitcher who proved that Japanese players could be hugely valuable on MLB rosters is the main point. If there had been a perception pre-Nomo that Japanese could be successful, I think it's totally stunted if he doesn't actually succeed. And I think that also sets the hitters back.

BTW- Murakami isn't forgotten on me. He was a trailblazer for sure, but he supposedly got homesick and went back after his single MLB season. In turn, we didn't seen another Japanese player for 30 years. I think that's telling when it comes to importance of "the first". Had Murakami stuck around, broke into the rotation and had a 10+ year MLB career, I suspect many others would have followed much sooner.

Maybe that is part of the difference, and possibly another reason Murakami left so quickly. He actually played in two different season, 1964 and 1965, but only had one start. He was basically used as a reliever, and sort of a closer. He actually ended up with 5-1 MLB record, and was credited with 9 saves. He had a not unrespectable 3.43 ERA and WHIP of 0.985, and a very respectable 100 SOs in only 89.1 innings pitched. Certainly wasn't a bust, and obviously had talent. A shame he didn't stick around so we could have seen how his career would have played out. And had he done so, it is quite possible that more Japanese players would have started coming over to play MLB, and/or more MLB teams would have gone over there looking for them, instead of it taking another 30 years or so before more Japanese players started coming.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

I don't know anything about Murakami. Was he highly touted at the time? Was he a top pitcher in Japan? Enquiring minds want to know.

Not sure of how he was playing in Japan, but look at his MLB stats. He was clearly not anywhere near what I would consider a bust.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/p...urakma01.shtml

[seanofjapan]

Murakami had a succesful career in NPB after returning to Japan, pitching until 1982. Not HOF level, but good. He is still alive and has had a long broadcasting career here.

A big difference between him and Nomo is that his NPB team actually sent him to the US, expecting him to just get some experience in the minors and not thinking he would make the majors. Then he showed them and actually made it.

With Nomo on the other hand his team and NPB fought tooth and nail to prevent him from playing in the US.

They both have quite interesting stories, but very different ones.

[itjclarke]

Pretty cool seeing Ohtani strike out teammate Mike Trout to secure another WBC for Japan.

[seanofjapan]

Originally Posted by itjclarke

Pretty cool seeing Ohtani strike out teammate Mike Trout to secure another WBC for Japan.

For sure. If a novelist had written that ending, nobody would have believed something like that would happen in real life. Absolutely amazing.

[brianp-beme]

I saw the last few innings...the whole 9th inning buildup of Ohtani coming in to pitch the 9th was really just the stuff that legends are created from, and striking out Trout cementing it forever in baseball lore. I imagine the whole of Japan is just going nuts over it.

I believe this year's WBC has really jumped up several notches in importance in baseball fans minds, especially those from the United States, and has a shot at becoming somewhat of a World Cup-like event from here on out (of course still at a lower global level than the World Cup).

Brian