Anybody else watching this Roberto Clemente RC on eBay?

[Vegas Cards]

Looks to be a gorgeous card. Closes soon. Not much to say, just fascinated by the bidding. I know not everyone loves PWCC, but these bidders don't seem to care.

Wonder if it'll get to $40,000?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1955-Topps-...53.m1438.l2649

[robw1959]

Sure looks like it will . . . over $38K with over an hour left in the auction. Usually vintage baseball card prices are a bit down this time of year, but not this year! It makes me wonder where the prices will be this summer.

[swarmee]

Sure is overgraded.
1) Print defect from end of signature into TE of PIRATES, making them blurry.
2) Cyan registration on front is high.
3) Stain or print defect over the O in ROBERTO at top of back.
4) Magenta and Green misaligned on back.
5) Either a missed MK or ugly black fiber next to "THROWS: RIGHT".

Sure it has nice centering and corners/edges, but the other components are not worthy of the grade.

[Vegas Cards]

Good points. The print defects on the front especially.

Guess there just aren't enough good examples to go around in this market. People are willing to overlook the flaws.

[swarmee]

No, I think they're only looking at the flip.

[111gecko]

Originally Posted by Vegas Cards

Looks to be a gorgeous card. Closes soon. Not much to say, just fascinated by the bidding. I know not everyone loves PWCC, but these bidders don't seem to care.

Wonder if it'll get to $40,000?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1955-Topps-...53.m1438.l2649

Is it yours by chance????

[Vegas Cards]

Originally Posted by 111gecko

Is it yours by chance????

LOL, no, I'm not that devious. And if I owned it, I'd hope I wouldn't be a seller. I'm looking for one at a much much lower price point and this caught my eye.

[irv]

Originally Posted by swarmee

Sure is over graded.
1) Print defect from end of signature into TE of PIRATES, making them blurry.
2) Cyan registration on front is high.
3) Stain or print defect over the O in ROBERTO at top of back.
4) Magenta and Green misaligned on back.
5) Either a missed MK or ugly black fiber next to "THROWS: RIGHT".

Sure it has nice centering and corners/edges, but the other components are not worthy of the grade.

The card certainly shows how much tougher grading has become over the last couple years.
I would assume that card would be a 7, maybe a 6, by today's standards?

[cardsagain74]

Originally Posted by swarmee

Sure is overgraded.
1) Print defect from end of signature into TE of PIRATES, making them blurry.
2) Cyan registration on front is high.
3) Stain or print defect over the O in ROBERTO at top of back.
4) Magenta and Green misaligned on back.
5) Either a missed MK or ugly black fiber next to "THROWS: RIGHT".

Sure it has nice centering and corners/edges, but the other components are not worthy of the grade.

For number 5, I've noticed that the '55 backs can easily have those black factory marks about that size, and they look so much like a pen.

But that print defect on the front is pretty bad. I can't believe it got an 8

[swarmee]

Yeah, maybe a 6 today by a grader looking for flaws.
Looks like it was graded 10 years ago.

[Vegas Cards]

Well not quite $40k, but still amazing. Especially with some of the flaws pointed out by others.

I'll keep searching for this card, just at the other end of the pool.

[cardsagain74]

How bout over $50 k for a '63 T Mantle in a 9

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1963-Topps-...-/143891618061

[Vegas Cards]

Originally Posted by cardsagain74

How bout over $50 k for a '63 T Mantle in a 9

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1963-Topps-...-/143891618061

Wow! That seems like a bunch for a 1963 mid-career card. But then again I still can't believe people pay $85,000 for new pickup trucks (thinking Ford Shelby).

Lucky for me I have this card in a grade I'm happy with. Otherwise the competition for these looks fierce.

[ASF123]

Originally Posted by swarmee

Sure is overgraded.
1) Print defect from end of signature into TE of PIRATES, making them blurry.
2) Cyan registration on front is high.
3) Stain or print defect over the O in ROBERTO at top of back.
4) Magenta and Green misaligned on back.
5) Either a missed MK or ugly black fiber next to "THROWS: RIGHT".

Sure it has nice centering and corners/edges, but the other components are not worthy of the grade.

Remind me never to try to sell you a card.

[Republicaninmass]

Originally Posted by ASF123

Remind me never to try to sell you a card.

+1

[ASF123]

Originally Posted by robw1959

Sure looks like it will . . . over $38K with over an hour left in the auction. Usually vintage baseball card prices are a bit down this time of year, but not this year! It makes me wonder where the prices will be this summer.

There are a ton of PWCC graded cards going for huge prices relative to previous sales tonight. Something in the air with Clemente though...earlier tonight a 65T Clemente with writing on both the front and back went for like $38. Very strange.

Wow. Makes me glad I picked up as many early hall of fame player cards as I could in the seventies and early eighties. I’m also glad I collect raw cards. 🙂

[swarmee]

Originally Posted by ASF123

Remind me never to try to sell you a card.

Yeah, I don't buy much anymore, unless it's to flip. And since PSA banned me from submitting, I got rid of most of my graded collection.

What would you grade the card?

[cardsagain74]

Not just the pwcc auctions. Something weird in the water tonight.

I'm baffled by this one. And yeah it's football, but no one reads that forum. This set goes for $150 if it's typical raw '80s sharp. A place with bad feedback and one very fuzzy pic of the Jerry Rice (card could be any condition)....no clue what happened here

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1986-Topps-...-/124493844052

[ASF123]

Originally Posted by swarmee

And since PSA banned me from submitting, I got rid of most of my graded collection.

There must be a good story there, I assume? Do tell...

As for what I would grade it, hell if I know. I'm just back into the hobby after a "break" since the junk wax days, so I'm trying to catch up to modern grading practices. From what I've seen, the TPGs are so inconsistent and the differences between one grade and the next one up or down are so small/subjective/arbitrary that the whole thing seems like, er, a house of cards. I'd probably grade it as "really nice looking, would have been NM in 1989." Everyone was so much happier with the condition of their cards back then! Different times, different times.

[ASF123]

Originally Posted by cardsagain74

Not just the pwcc auctions. Something weird in the water tonight.

Yep. Greg Morris was also getting some huge bids on the raw '66s, even by Greg Morris standards.

[Vegas Cards]

Originally Posted by ASF123

Yep. Greg Morris was also getting some huge bids on the raw '66s, even by Greg Morris standards.

Just a thought, stimulus checks on the way?

[ASF123]

Originally Posted by Vegas Cards

Just a thought, stimulus checks on the way?

Maybe? Or the spike in traffic (presumably) from the big PWCC graded auction brought extra eyeballs and bids to the raw cards as well? Do any of the people who buy high-end graded cards ever also buy raw?

[irv]

Originally Posted by ASF123

There must be a good story there, I assume? Do tell...

As for what I would grade it, hell if I know. I'm just back into the hobby after a "break" since the junk wax days, so I'm trying to catch up to modern grading practices. From what I've seen, the TPGs are so inconsistent and the differences between one grade and the next one up or down are so small/subjective/arbitrary that the whole thing seems like, er, a house of cards. I'd probably grade it as "really nice looking, would have been NM in 1989." Everyone was so much happier with the condition of their cards back then! Different times, different times.

I just posted this in the Modern section. Check out the Ebay listing then my card. Makes you go Hmm, doesn't it? Also, if you weren't aware, check out some of the Doctoring/Trimming posts at Blowout cards to get a real eye opener!
https://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=294055

One of many. This is a short one compared to the much larger thread.
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1298306

[ASF123]

Yeah, I spent some time reading a very long Blowout thread on the trimming scandal to educate myself. I have to say, as someone who hasn't been in the hobby for years to get acculturated to PSA and the other TPGs as they were taking over, it's astounding to me that they have any credibility at all, let alone the power to determine the market that collectors allow them to have.

I get the desire for "standardized objective" grading to facilitate transactions, but man, their execution is poor and their business model seems to be just one bad incentive after another.

That Griffey trimming is absurd - as is the fact that someone will pay almost $200 for a 1991 Ken Griffey Jr. just because some (clearly incompetent or corrupt) guy at PSA put a 10 on the slab instead of an 8 or a 9.

Coming back to the hobby and seeing this is like, I dunno, moving back to your hometown after being gone for 25 years and finding that they've elected a ferret as the mayor or something. And the ferret is in its fifth term, with an 80% approval rating.

[Wanaselja]

Originally Posted by ASF123

Yeah, I spent some time reading a very long Blowout thread on the trimming scandal to educate myself. I have to say, as someone who hasn't been in the hobby for years to get acculturated to PSA and the other TPGs as they were taking over, it's astounding to me that they have any credibility at all, let alone the power to determine the market that collectors allow them to have.

I get the desire for "standardized objective" grading to facilitate transactions, but man, their execution is poor and their business model seems to be just one bad incentive after another.

That Griffey trimming is absurd - as is the fact that someone will pay almost $200 for a 1991 Ken Griffey Jr. just because some (clearly incompetent or corrupt) guy at PSA put a 10 on the slab instead of an 8 or a 9.

Coming back to the hobby and seeing this is like, I dunno, moving back to your hometown after being gone for 25 years and finding that they've elected a ferret as the mayor or something. And the ferret is in its fifth term, with an 80% approval rating.

This really made me laugh. Great post.

[swarmee]

Originally Posted by ASF123

There must be a good story there, I assume? Do tell...

I was using their system to contact their users who had trimmed cards in their possession so that they could return them to either PSA or the company they bought them from. PSA doesn't like when people cost them money.

[jchcollins]

Clearly a high end card, but that print damage on the front with the black smear is a bit close to the line for me to be an 8. I wonder (if everything was on the level, of course...) if the card was otherwise considered a 9 and that brought it down to an 8. It's not horrible, but it is noticeable.

I've seen plenty of vintage 8's before with a touch of print damage, but it's usually more subtle than that.

[carlsonjok]

Originally Posted by ASF123

Yep. Greg Morris was also getting some huge bids on the raw '66s, even by Greg Morris standards.

Sorta off topic, but this did spur a thought. Does anyone have a feel for which Topps sets are more popular? I am working on both 1960 and 1965. I bid in a lot of Greg Morris auctions and have firm rules (25-30% of BV for VGEX, 30-40% for EX, and 40-50% for NM.) I will have been bidding on 30-40 cards on each set break from those two years. I will, invariably win 6-8 cards from 1960, but generally strike out in the 1965 breaks. In fact, I think I have won 3 total cards from '65 over the last half dozen breaks. It makes no sense to me.

And to bring it back on topic, I find the prices on the 1955 Clemente depressing. I am 21 cards from finishing 1955, but don't expect to ever finish unless prices come back down to earth. My wife is an equestrian and she just bought a nice French dressage saddle for $650. When I lamented that the cards I need to finish a couple sets (missing the Ryan rookie for 1968) could cost that much or more, she looked at me like I am crazy. And, she might just be right.

[Wanaselja]

Originally Posted by carlsonjok

Sorta off topic, but this did spur a thought. Does anyone have a feel for which Topps sets are more popular? I am working on both 1960 and 1965. I bid in a lot of Greg Morris auctions and have firm rules (25-30% of BV for VGEX, 30-40% for EX, and 40-50% for NM.) I will have been bidding on 30-40 cards on each set break from those two years. I will, invariably win 6-8 cards from 1960, but generally strike out in the 1965 breaks. In fact, I think I have won 3 total cards from '65 over the last half dozen breaks. It makes no sense to me.

And to bring it back on topic, I find the prices on the 1955 Clemente depressing. I am 21 cards from finishing 1955, but don't expect to ever finish unless prices come back down to earth. My wife is an equestrian and she just bought a nice French dressage saddle for $650. When I lamented that the cards I need to finish a couple sets (missing the Ryan rookie for 1968) could cost that much or more, she looked at me like I am crazy. And, she might just be right.

I don’t know how scientific this is but it might help with your question above - https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KivgVDffUtk

[SPMIDD]

I was going to try and buy it but I thought $100 for shipping was a little steep.