Any One Collect Pins?

[sflayank]

every time a new player shows up that no one has the price shoots way up
thats the way it is
im sure that kaline would bring 200 or more now

[sflayank]

what we need to do here is start a new post just with the known checklist
with NO responses except adding to the checklist

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by Chris Counts

"Any team/player combo on the list that COULDN'T be from 1970"

Many of the players joined their teams after 1970, such as Dick Allen, who first played for the White Sox in 1972, and Rusty Staub, who joined the Mets the same year. Allen also has a button with the Cardinals. Frank Robinson didn't join the Angels until 1973.

I think my research on the Giants showed the Giants pins had to be 1972-73.

[Cliff Bowman]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

I think my research on the Giants showed the Giants pins had to be 1972-73.

Tom Bradley didn't become a Giant until 1973, so he has to be a 1973 issue. The photo for the Tom Bradley Giants pin was no doubt taken during 1973 spring training. I can't find it now (I wish I had taken a scan) but on my original search through WorthPoint looking for these black box pins I saw a pic of the Tom Bradley pin with the White Sox which in turn means that White Sox pin must be a 1972 issue. ETA, if the Giants pins were made in 1972 I would think there would be a Willie Mays. Even though he was traded in May of 1972, I can’t imagine that if they had a bunch of Mays Giants pins in production that they would then destroy all of them only because he was traded. Edited again: Uh oh, my own theory blew up in my face. Tom Bradley was traded FOR Ken Henderson in November 1972, so the Henderson Giants pin can only be a 1972 issue. Maybe the SAN FRANCISCO pins are 1972, and the SAN FRAN. pins are 1973 ?

[MK]

Originally Posted by Cliff Bowman

Tom Bradley didn't become a Giant until 1973, so he has to be a 1973 issue. The photo for the Tom Bradley Giants pin was no doubt taken during 1973 spring training. I can't find it now (I wish I had taken a scan) but on my original search through WorthPoint looking for these black box pins I saw a pic of the Tom Bradley pin with the White Sox which in turn means that White Sox pin must be a 1972 issue. ETA, if the Giants pins were made in 1972 I would think there would be a Willie Mays. Even though he was traded in May of 1972, I can’t imagine that if they had a bunch of Mays Giants pins in production that they would then destroy all of them only because he was traded. Edited again: Uh oh, my own theory blew up in my face. Tom Bradley was traded FOR Ken Henderson in November 1972, so the Henderson Giants pin can only be a 1972 issue.

The Ron Santo White Sox pin had to be made in 1974 as he was still with the Cubs in 1973. There has to be others that were made as late as 74 but unless they changed teams it impossible to tell

[MK]

Was this one on the list? BTW he wasn’t in the majors until 1975.

[Cliff Bowman]

Originally Posted by MK

Was this one on the list? BTW he wasn’t in the majors until 1975.

No he isn’t, and now that extends the time frame from 1970 to 1975. I will add him to the checklist. I ran across some circa 1975 pins of Fred Lynn and Jim Rice that were very similar to these but they didn’t have BOSTON or RED SOX printed in the black box so I didn’t include them. I did see a Rick Burleson pin with a different photo but the black box was partially covered by another pin so I couldn’t see if RED SOX was in the black box or not. ETA, after you mentioned the Hobson pin I looked up Hobson pins on WP and found this interesting lot that included two error pins, Burleson and Hobson each with switched photos. Apparently these were an early printing error that were quickly corrected.

[jimtigers65]

Added a nice 1969 Detroit Tiger team pin back button to my collection.

64D99152-E61A-41B3-995D-D303E7FA9BA2.jpg

[Cliff Bowman]

Ran across this interesting Denny McLain pin on WP, it appears to be a legitimate 1969 MLB pin, but it is 6" in diameter(!) and has a cardboard easel back.

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by Cliff Bowman

Ran across this interesting Denny McLain pin on WP, it appears to be a legitimate 1969 MLB pin, but it is 6" in diameter(!) and has a cardboard easel back.

Wow! The stars in the background are bizarre.

[MK]

Originally Posted by Cliff Bowman

Ran across this interesting Denny McLain pin on WP, it appears to be a legitimate 1969 MLB pin, but it is 6" in diameter(!) and has a cardboard easel back.

Should we start a new checklist for 6” pins with stars? 😝

[Cliff Bowman]

Originally Posted by sflayank

what we need to do here is start a new post just with the known checklist
with NO responses except adding to the checklist

With apologies to andypcl, I'll give it a try. If I have any teams wrong someone let me know.

3.5"
Hank Aaron (Braves) B&W
Tommie Agee (Mets) B&W
Richie Allen (Phillies) B&W
Mike Andrews (Red Sox) B&W
Mike Andrews (Red Sox) Color
Luis Aparicio (White Sox) B&W
Ernie Banks (Cubs) B&W
Ernie Banks (Cubs) Color
Glenn Beckert (Cubs) B&W
Yogi Berra (Mets) B&W
Yogi Berra (Mets) Color
Curt Blefary (Yankees) B&W
Ken Boswell (Mets) B&W
Lou Brock (Cardinals) B&W
John Callison (Cubs) B&W
Rod Carew (Twins) B&W
Orlando Cepeda (Braves) B&W
Ed Charles (Mets) B&W
Horace Clarke (Yankees) B&W
Roberto Clemente (Pirates) B&W
Donn Clendenon (Mets) B&W
Billy Conigliaro (Red Sox) B&W
Tony Conigliaro (Red Sox) B&W
Tony Conigliaro (Red Sox) Color
Ray Culp (Red Sox) Color
Joe DiMaggio (Yankees) B&W
Don Drysdale (Dodgers) B&W
John Ellis (Yankees) B&W
Frank Fernandez (Yankees) Color
Curt Flood (Cardinals) B&W
Jim Fregosi (Angels) Color
Lou Gehrig (Yankees) B&W
Bob Gibson (Cardinals) B&W
Jerry Grote (Mets) B&W
Bud Harrelson (Mets) B&W
Bud Harrelson (Mets) Color
Ken Harrelson (Red Sox) B&W
Jim Hickman (Cubs) B&W
Ken Holtzman (Cubs) B&W
Willie Horton (Tigers) B&W
Frank Howard (Senators) B&W
Randy Hundley (Cubs) B&W
Reggie Jackson (A's) Color
Fergie Jenkins (Cubs) B&W
Cleon Jones (Mets) B&W
Cleon Jones (Mets) Color
Dalton Jones (Red Sox) B&W
Al Kaline (Tigers) B&W
Jerry Kenney (Yankees) B&W
Don Kessinger (Cubs) B&W
Harmon Killebrew one ear showing (Twins) B&W
Harmon Killebrew two ears showing (Twins) B&W
Jerry Koosman (Mets) Color
Sandy Koufax (Dodgers) B&W
Ed Kranepool (Mets) Color
Mickey Lolich (Tigers) B&W
Jim Lonborg (Red Sox) B&W
Jim Lonborg (Red Sox) Color
Mickey Mantle (Yankees) B&W
Juan Marichal (Giants) B&W
Carlos May (White Sox) B&W
Willie Mays (Giants) B&W
Willie McCovey (Giants) B&W
Denny McLain (Tigers) B&W
Bill Melton (White Sox) B&W
Gene Michael (Yankees) B&W
Gene Michael (Yankees) Color
Thurman Munson (Yankees) B&W
Bobby Murcer-photo actually Billy Cowan (Yankees) B&W
Bobby Murcer (Yankees) Color
Tony Oliva (Twins) B&W
Joe Pepitone (Yankees) B&W
Joe Pepitone (Cubs) B&W
Rico Petrocelli (Red Sox) B&W
Rico Petrocelli (Red Sox) Color
Rick Reichardt (Angels) Color
Brooks Robinson (Orioles) B&W
Frank Robinson (Orioles) B&W
Pete Rose (Reds) B&W
Babe Ruth (Yankees) B&W
Ron Santo (Cubs) B&W
Ron Santo (Cubs) Color
George Scott (Red Sox) B&W
George Scott (Red Sox) Color
Tom Seaver (Mets) B&W
Tom Seaver (Mets) Color
Art Shamsky (Mets) B&W
Reggie Smith (Red Sox) B&W
Reggie Smith (Red Sox) Color
Mel Stottlemyre (Yankees) B&W
Mel Stottlemyre (Yankees) Color
Ron Swoboda (Mets) B&W
Ron Swoboda (Mets) Color
Joe Torre (Cardinals) B&W
Tom Tresh (Yankees) Color
Pete Ward (White Sox) B&W
Roy White (Yankees) B&W
Billy Williams (Cubs) B&W
Carl Yastrzemski (Red Sox) B&W
Carl Yastrzemski (Red Sox) Color

2.25"
Ernie Banks (Cubs) B&W
Glenn Beckert (Cubs) B&W
Jim Bunning (Phillies) B&W
Rod Carew (Twins) B&W
Randy Hundley (Cubs) B&W
Deron Johnson (Phillies) B&W
Harmon Killebrew (Twins) B&W
Willie Mays (Giants) B&W
Willie McCovey (Giants) B&W
Tony Oliva (Twins) B&W
Ron Santo (Cubs) B&W
Tony Taylor (Phillies) B&W

6"
Denny McLain (Tigers) Color

Possibly exist but not confirmed
3.5" Jerry Koosman (Mets) B&W
2.25" Juan Marichal (Giants) B&W

[aelefson]

Hi-

I don't think this Rice pin is on the checklist. It does say Boston Red Sox in the black box.

Alan

[MK]

Don’t see this one listed

[Cliff Bowman]

Originally Posted by aelefson

Hi-

I don't think this Rice pin is on the checklist. It does say Boston Red Sox in the black box.

Alan

Thanks! If there is a Jim Rice and a Butch Hobson then there's undoubtedly a Fred Lynn out there with the team name.

[Cliff Bowman]

Originally Posted by MK

Don’t see this one listed

Dagnabbit! I knew I would forget somebody. I also missed Dalton Jones and one more I haven’t figured out yet . ETA It was Bob Gibson. Checklist is good to go now with 100 confirmed 3.5" pins.

[Cliff Bowman]

Checklist updated.

A's- Sal Bando, Bert Campaneris, Ray Fosse, Rollie Fingers, Dick Green, Ken Holtzman, Jim Hunter, Reggie Jackson, Angel Mangual, Bill North, Joe Rudi, Gene Tenace, Dick Williams

Angels- Frank Robinson, Nolan Ryan, Bobby Winkles

Braves- Hank Aaron, Paul Casanova

Brewers- Pedro Garcia, Darrell Porter, Robin Yount

Cardinals- Dick Allen

Cubs- Ernie Banks, Ray Burris, Jose Cardenal (CHICAGO completely visible on uniform), Jose Cardenal (closeup, arms not showing), Carmen Fanzone, Vic Harris, Gene Hiser, Burt Hooton (misspelled Houton), Burt Hooton (spelled correctly), Randy Hundley, Fergie Jenkins, Don Kessinger (batting, misspelled Kissinger), Don Kessinger (fielding, spelled correctly), Bill Madlock, George Mitterwald, Rick Monday (bat at top of pin), Rick Monday (closeup, cap at top of pin), Jerry Morales, Rick Reuschel, Ron Santo, Steve Stone, Billy Williams

Giants- Bobby Bonds, Tom Bradley, Ron Bryant, Tito Fuentes, Ed Goodson, Ken Henderson, Dave Kingman, Garry Maddox, Juan Marichal, Willie McCovey, Dave Rader, Chris Speier

Mets- Tommie Agee, Jim Fregosi, Wayne Garrett, Jerry Grote, Bud Harrelson, Cleon Jones, Jerry Koosman, Willie Mays, Tug McGraw, Felix Millan, John Milner, Tom Seaver, Rusty Staub

Orioles- Don Baylor, Paul Blair, Pat Dobson, Bobby Grich, Jim Palmer, Merv Rettenmund, Brooks Robinson

Pirates- Roberto Clemente (arms crossed, black box below hands), Roberto Clemente (arms crossed, black box on hands), Roberto Clemente (closeup face), Roberto Clemente ( closeup face, no clear plastic cover), Gene Clines, Dave Giusti, Richie Hebner (mouth open), Richie Hebner (closeup smiling), Al Oliver, Bob Robertson, Manny Sanguillen (batting), Manny Sanguillen (standing with #35 visible), Willie Stargell, Rennie Stennett

Rangers- David Clyde, Fergie Jenkins

Red Sox- Luis Aparicio (batting), Luis Aparicio (closeup face), Rick Burleson (error, photo Butch Hobson), Rick Burleson (correct photo), Bernie Carbo, Orlando Cepeda, Tony Conigliaro, Ray Culp (BOSTON RED SOX), Ray Culp (RED SOX only), Dwight Evans, Carlton Fisk, Doug Griffin, Tommy Harper, Butch Hobson (error, photo Rick Burleson), Butch Hobson (correct photo), Rico Petrocelli, Jim Rice, Sonny Siebert, Reggie Smith, Luis Tiant (RED SOX only, serious expression), Luis Tiant (BOSTON RED SOX, smiling), Carl Yastrzemski (batting), Carl Yastrzemski (two tone cap), Carl Yastrzemski (RED SOX only)

Reds- Johnny Bench, Jack Billingham, Dave Concepcion, Don Gullett, Joe Morgan, Tony Perez, Pete Rose

Tigers- Ed Brinkman, Norm Cash, Al Kaline, Mickey Lolich

Twins- Harmon Killebrew, Tony Oliva

White Sox- Dick Allen, Mike Andrews, Stan Bahnsen, Tom Bradley, Ed Hermann, Carlos May, Bill Melton, Ron Santo, Wilbur Wood

Yankees- Felipe Alou, Matty Alou, Ron Blomberg, Sparky Lyle, Bobby Murcer, Graig Nettles, Fritz Peterson, Mel Stottlemyre, Roy White

[ksfarmboy]

Here’s the Dobson and Rettenmund so they can get the * removed.

[Cliff Bowman]

Originally Posted by ksfarmboy

Here’s the Dobson and Rettenmund so they can get the * removed.

Thanks!

[Cliff Bowman]

Butch Hobson only played in two games with four at bats in 1975, so I believe it’s safe to say that the black box pins were made through 1976 for the Red Sox. It looks like every other team was made no later than early 1974, including the five new 1974 Cubs players with Spring Training photos, Ron Santo with the White Sox, Fergie Jenkins with the Rangers, and an early rookie pin of Robin Yount.

[dwr11]

Here are a couple of signed Yount pins.

[Mark70Z]

Posted for Clint (ksfarmboy)

Oriole Pins.jpg

[midmo]

Here's my case of (mostly) Brooklyn pins and trinkets.

[Scott Garner]

Originally Posted by midmo

Here's my case of (mostly) Brooklyn pins and trinkets.

Impressive collection! Thanks for sharing this

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by midmo

Here's my case of (mostly) Brooklyn pins and trinkets.

Awesome collection and presentation!

[ooo-ribay]

I just went back to the first few pages of this thread. Turns out, we are discussing the 1969 MLBPA and “black box” pins for (at least) the second time. This time, though, we are going into more depth.

[Vintagecatcher]

Recently saw this pinback back design which was described as 1890 on a position pin with advertising. Is this actually a period pinback design or is it a reproduction design?

Thanks in advance!

Patrick

[MK]

Originally Posted by Vintagecatcher

Recently saw this pinback back design which was described as 1890 on a position pin with advertising. Is this actually a period pinback design or is it a reproduction design?

Thanks in advance!

Patrick

This same type of Pinback is on my 1906 Cubs pin. As far as I know, these were only used on very early pins.

[Vintagecatcher]

Thanks Mike!

I found several other examples as well online.

Patrick

[ooo-ribay]

This thread needed a bump. I'd been looking for the 2002 Muni pin for.....18 years! Duh. I believe there are only these three years.

[Cliff Bowman]

I ran across this one on Google, a 1972 Bill Melton White Sox nickname pin that goes along with the five known 1972 Cubs nickname pins. There are more than likely other White Sox in the set, I just wonder what nicknames they used for Wilbur Wood, Carlos May, or Dick Allen?

[Fballguy]

Originally Posted by midmo

Here's my case of (mostly) Brooklyn pins and trinkets.

Regarding the white pin with walking bum to the left of the large blue one in the middle. I think that might be a Continental Football League pin. That guy was widely used by the football Dodgers of the mid 1960s.

Did the baseball Dodgers use this bum as well?

Brooklyn Dodgers Program.jpg

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by Fballguy

Regarding the white pin with walking bum to the left of the large blue one in the middle. I think that might be a Continental Football League pin. That guy was widely used by the football Dodgers of the mid 1960s.

Did the baseball Dodgers use this bum as well?

Attachment 386734

The baseball Dodgers used him first. An apt nickname.

[Fballguy]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

The baseball Dodgers used him first. An apt nickname.

Yep...But did they use this particular rendering of him. The football Dodgers used him on programs, tickets and pennants. I'd think it would be odd for a football team to use a pre-existing mascot from an unrelated baseball team.

Misc Brooklyn Dodgers.jpg

[ooo-ribay]

I would think the FB team just added the ball, but what do I know?

[71buc]

This is probably only of interest to me but no one in my social circle would really give a damn. They are certain I'm a loon for loving this stuff so much. Nonetheless, bear with me. I picked up this pin a few years ago. I have never seen another example. There was no way I could be certain it was related to the 1971 team. I actually suspected it was a 1979 pin because the color scheme was so different than other pins attributed to the 1971 team. Today I was flipping through a 1970 Pittsburgh Post Gazette newspaper supplement celebrating the opening of Three Rivers and there was a picture of this pin. It's the little things in life that serve to make loons like me happy

[ooo-ribay]

^^^^ For sure, Mike! It’s all about unraveling the mysteries. Was that an ad for the bank or an offer for the pin?

Edit: but, crap, wouldn’t that make it a 1970 pin with a World Series just wishful thinking?

[71buc]

Hi Rob, it was an ad for a mall and a wish for a 1970 World Series.

[docpatlv]

Originally Posted by 71buc

This is probably only of interest to me but no one in my social circle would really give a damn. They are certain I'm a loon for loving this stuff so much. Nonetheless, bear with me. I picked up this pin a few years ago. I have never seen another example. There was no way I could be certain it was related to the 1971 team. I actually suspected it was a 1979 pin because the color scheme was so different than other pins attributed to the 1971 team. Today I was flipping through a 1970 Pittsburgh Post Gazette newspaper supplement celebrating the opening of Three Rivers and there was a picture of this pin. It's the little things in life that serve to make loons like me happy

Good for you Mike, glad it turned out to be from 1971. Have never seen it before.

[batsballsbases]

Great work Mike I have had that pin also for a long time and always wondered about it! Nice Job.. Here is mine

[icollectDCsports]

Originally Posted by 71buc

It's the little things in life that serve to make loons like me happy

Don't be so hard on yourself. It makes me happy and I don't even own one. Haha.

[71buc]

Thanks Al. Your pin is only the second I have ever seen. Then again it might be an issue of location rather than rarity as i am in the Northwest.

[ooo-ribay]

In another thread, perezfan (Mark) asked for opinions on the "legitimacy" of a Jim Brown pin he had recently purchased. The pin basically had never been seen before, except when it was sold previously in another auction. The consensus was the pin was questionable. I personally think the pin is probably vintage but was home made.

It got me to thinking about how we decide if a pin is or is not "real." One strike against Mark's pin was that no one had seen another. OK...but I have been searching 25 years for a PM-10 I have seen exactly once. It is a Billy Pierce SF PM-10. Almost never seen, but everyone agrees it's "real." Another pin I've seen once yet is unquestionably real is a Hoyt Wilhelm HOF pin. There is another SF Giant PM-10 my buddy swears he saw on a lady's hat, even though no other Giants collector ever knew of it's existence. I believe Al has a few PM-10's (e.g. Wes Westrum), where his are the only ones known to exist yet are unquestionably real.

So, scarcity does not necessarily = fake. Even with the super-plentiful PM-10's (e.g. many variations of Willie Mays) we, in most cases, do not know who actually made the pin. Between the early 1900's paper back labels and the 1970's maker's name on the curl, most "real" pinbacks have no manufacturer's name. For all we know, they were made in somebody's basement. And, what if a guy working in a pin factory decided to quickly make 10 pins of his favorite player, while he was cranking out Mays pins. Are his 10 real or fake?

For the past 45 years, you could buy badge making machines from this company:

https://www.badgeaminit.com/

I would assume there were other pin making machines, prior to that. And even if you couldn't make pins at home, I would imagine a person could have a limited number of custom pins made in the 40s. 50's and 60's. Things like "Happy Retirement Bob!." Attached are a couple of Mays pins I have seen once and are not part of a particular "series". I think the color one is in andypcl's collection. Are these real or fake? If I had a chance to buy either, I probably would. My point is, licensing was different back in those days and I would doubt all, if any, of our known, "real" pins were licensed. So, if a guy decides to make 50 pins to sell outside a stadium in 1965 are those "real" or "fake"? Maybe some guy sold some Jim Browns outside of Cleveland Municipal Stadium? How do we, in the hobby, classify those pins? I'm not expressing myself all that well...I've been up since my dog threw up an hour ago....but hopefully you guys understand what I'm saying and will maybe chime in.

[andypcl]

Hi Rob,
That Mays isn't mine. But I can assure you the Pierce is very real. You never told me what player your friend saw on the lady's hat. I'm curious...
-A

[ooo-ribay]

Originally Posted by andypcl

Hi Rob,
That Mays isn't mine. But I can assure you the Pierce is very real. You never told me what player your friend saw on the lady's hat. I'm curious...
-A

And then you’ll be searching too?

Sorry; not telling.

[MK]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

In another thread, perezfan (Mark) asked for opinions on the "legitimacy" of a Jim Brown pin he had recently purchased. The pin basically had never been seen before, except when it was sold previously in another auction. The consensus was the pin was questionable. I personally think the pin is probably vintage but was home made.

It got me to thinking about how we decide if a pin is or is not "real." One strike against Mark's pin was that no one had seen another. OK...but I have been searching 25 years for a PM-10 I have seen exactly once. It is a Billy Pierce SF PM-10. Almost never seen, but everyone agrees it's "real." Another pin I've seen once yet is unquestionably real is a Hoyt Wilhelm HOF pin. There is another SF Giant PM-10 my buddy swears he saw on a lady's hat, even though no other Giants collector ever knew of it's existence. I believe Al has a few PM-10's (e.g. Wes Westrum), where his are the only ones known to exist yet are unquestionably real.

So, scarcity does not necessarily = fake. Even with the super-plentiful PM-10's (e.g. many variations of Willie Mays) we, in most cases, do not know who actually made the pin. Between the early 1900's paper back labels and the 1970's maker's name on the curl, most "real" pinbacks have no manufacturer's name. For all we know, they were made in somebody's basement. And, what if a guy working in a pin factory decided to quickly make 10 pins of his favorite player, while he was cranking out Mays pins. Are his 10 real or fake?

For the past 45 years, you could buy badge making machines from this company:

https://www.badgeaminit.com/

I would assume there were other pin making machines, prior to that. And even if you couldn't make pins at home, I would imagine a person could have a limited number of custom pins made in the 40s. 50's and 60's. Things like "Happy Retirement Bob!." Attached are a couple of Mays pins I have seen once and are not part of a particular "series". I think the color one is in andypcl's collection. Are these real or fake? If I had a chance to buy either, I probably would. My point is, licensing was different back in those days and I would doubt all, if any, of our known, "real" pins were licensed. So, if a guy decides to make 50 pins to sell outside a stadium in 1965 are those "real" or "fake"? Maybe some guy sold some Jim Browns outside of Cleveland Municipal Stadium? How do we, in the hobby, classify those pins? I'm not expressing myself all that well...I've been up since my dog threw up an hour ago....but hopefully you guys understand what I'm saying and will maybe chime in.

I would say the Brown pin is not fake, but is a fantasy. I doubt it was made and sold when Brown was active, but later. There is a Stan Musial pin that is often for sale as vintage, but actually was distributed years after his retirement. BTW Rob, hope your dog is better.

[batsballsbases]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

In another thread, perezfan (Mark) asked for opinions on the "legitimacy" of a Jim Brown pin he had recently purchased. The pin basically had never been seen before, except when it was sold previously in another auction. The consensus was the pin was questionable. I personally think the pin is probably vintage but was home made.

It got me to thinking about how we decide if a pin is or is not "real." One strike against Mark's pin was that no one had seen another. OK...but I have been searching 25 years for a PM-10 I have seen exactly once. It is a Billy Pierce SF PM-10. Almost never seen, but everyone agrees it's "real." Another pin I've seen once yet is unquestionably real is a Hoyt Wilhelm HOF pin. There is another SF Giant PM-10 my buddy swears he saw on a lady's hat, even though no other Giants collector ever knew of it's existence. I believe Al has a few PM-10's (e.g. Wes Westrum), where his are the only ones known to exist yet are unquestionably real.

So, scarcity does not necessarily = fake. Even with the super-plentiful PM-10's (e.g. many variations of Willie Mays) we, in most cases, do not know who actually made the pin. Between the early 1900's paper back labels and the 1970's maker's name on the curl, most "real" pinbacks have no manufacturer's name. For all we know, they were made in somebody's basement. And, what if a guy working in a pin factory decided to quickly make 10 pins of his favorite player, while he was cranking out Mays pins. Are his 10 real or fake?

For the past 45 years, you could buy badge making machines from this company:

https://www.badgeaminit.com/

I would assume there were other pin making machines, prior to that. And even if you couldn't make pins at home, I would imagine a person could have a limited number of custom pins made in the 40s. 50's and 60's. Things like "Happy Retirement Bob!." Attached are a couple of Mays pins I have seen once and are not part of a particular "series". I think the color one is in andypcl's collection. Are these real or fake? If I had a chance to buy either, I probably would. My point is, licensing was different back in those days and I would doubt all, if any, of our known, "real" pins were licensed. So, if a guy decides to make 50 pins to sell outside a stadium in 1965 are those "real" or "fake"? Maybe some guy sold some Jim Browns outside of Cleveland Municipal Stadium? How do we, in the hobby, classify those pins? I'm not expressing myself all that well...I've been up since my dog threw up an hour ago....but hopefully you guys understand what I'm saying and will maybe chime in.

Rob,
I had to think long and hard about the question you are asking what is real and what is fake. Lets try and clear some points up all pins are REAL! Now the real question is are all pins ERA real! I have collected pins for over 45 years and have a collection very large so I have been able to see many styles,,, It takes years sometimes to gain the knowledge and sometimes even an expert gets burned . Your first point is the Brown pin real yes, is it Era Real ( in my opinion ) NO. To many red flags keep it from being good. Second " one of a kind pins" yes do exist and are era real. Lets take Pierce ( We all know your a Giants collector) As was just pointed out to you Andy (andypcl) Hi Andy now owns that Pierce pin I have he has one. So now there are 2. Is it real Absolutely! Era real Absolutely! (I post Pics) It is black backed and union stamped. ( hard to see) I will have to ask Andy if his is also. Now comes years of collecting knowledge Wes Westrum so far I think Im the only one who has one and that will and can change size 2 1/8 union stamp No. Is it era real Absolutely! Why, other known 2 1/8 pins made in the same style just like this one.. Another Don Muller 1 3/4 inch in size union stamp No. Era real Absolutely! Why, others made in a similar style and also the back of the pin in construction is very consistent with era pins. Now here is era correct and not era correct( Pics) Roger Maris Salute pin. Home run chase in 1961 Both pins are real But only one is era correct.. The pin known as the "Pink box" version is rare but is era correct. The #1 is in pink. The second one Is it real? Yes .. Is it era correct No. Made 20 + years later. There are differences no pink number in the box, Different photo of Maris on the front. all the rest is the same... Pin is 3 1/4 inch in both cases BUT other than the front its the back that is the give away.. Real looks like a bottom of a coffee can the other is usually bright and shiny ( unless its been aged by other means) If you ebay that pin the much later version can be found for upwards of 300+ dollars. Worth about 50... Now fakes real fakes! Here is a Mickey Mantle Theresa brewer pin. Made in the 50s.. I have never seen a real one without the union logo on the back. Size 1 3/4 inch. Is the pin real Absolutely, has the pin been faked absolutely . There are good fakes and bad fakes ( bad fakes all red letters on front) then there are good fakes.. BUT no union logo on back and the small piece of the bat doesnt go around the curl of the pin to the back! (Pics) . Styles also change as to pin back construction. Here are some phillies pins are they era correct Absolutely. Are the backs made differently Absolutely. Same fronts but different style pins used. 2 have straight pins or spring pins the other 2 have what is known as Bayonette style pins. Bottom line is you really have to have collected these pins for a long time to gain knowledge as to what is really out there. I could keep going but will stop here for now!

[ooo-ribay]

Thanks for your thoughts, Al. I now actually know of three people with the Pierce pin.

Back to the Brown....I think you’re dismissing it because of the 3” (on the money) size? I don’t disagree with you that it’s probably a fantasy piece but what if my “some guy made a few and sold them outside Cleveland Municipal in 1963” theory were true? I would assume it would then be “real.”

I also considered a counter argument to that - if someone was having success selling their home made pins, why would they stop?

P.S. if you need details to put me in your Will for the Pierce pin, PM me!

[edtiques]

I recently picked up this pin in a lot and was wondering if it was a reproduction or not. It's 1 3/4 inches with a black back and no union label. I haven't been able to find another one like it. I'd appreciate any input from those who are more knowledgeable about pins than I am. Thanks in advance!
EDIT: Thank you for your response!! Here's another picture of the back,hopefully better than the first.

[batsballsbases]

Originally Posted by edtiques

I recently picked up this pin in a lot and was wondering if it was a reproduction or not. It's 1 3/4 inches with a black back and no union label. I haven't been able to find another one like it. I'd appreciate any input from those who are more knowledgeable about pins than I am. Thanks in advance!

Pic is a little blurry could use a better pic of the back but from what I see looks good.. Size? 1 3/4 ? That was Baltimores first spring training in Yuma... Town really rolled out the red carpet for them so a pin like that would have really fit the time period...