Candiman Auctions Explained

[Peter_Spaeth]

Somehow Daniel neglected to respond on the 55 Mantle?

[BoyWonder089]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Somehow Daniel neglected to respond on the 55 Mantle?

No video either . Appears they only wanted to highlight people giving them a chance.

[ZiggerZagger]

Based on the bidding, their auction is going to be reasonably successful. They'll easily earn 5-figures at the end of the day. Well done to the board for making all of the necessary points to them.

It just makes me a bit sad to see -- it's one thing for a seller like Kevin Savage to list truly expertly and honestly graded raw cards in an online auction.
It's another to have what looks like cynical and overly-optimistic grading on raw cards, and from sellers in the hobby that nobody really knows.

It's an irresistible temptation to people's worst nature, thinking they are going to get a steal on a raw card.
Even if they never try to grade it, it's the preying on people's hopes and darker greed that really gets me.
We all want great cards for less money, but it's pretty simple -- Graded cards protect buyers.

Whatever. I have every faith the board will hold them accountable if there is a need to.

And there's only one Candyman, Battles bros -- Get it right...
We've got our (one) good eye on you
18-sammy-davis-jr.w710.h473.2x.jpg

[CurtisFlood]

I've been a card dealer for 30 years, buying and selling. I have seen about every possible scam and scheme there is out there. My experience tells me that if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck it is most likely a duck. I don't deal with ducks.

One of my friends in the card business was a magnet for these scams, counterfeits, fake autographs, etc. He fell for it all. Internet scams didn't stop him from buying the standard counterfeit fare; 52 Mantles, 33 Goudey Ruth's, Gretzky, Jordan, he bought it all. He refunded many people who bought his bad buys. He had a good job in his real life, but couldn't maintain his side job as a card dealer. Just too big a drain. Eventually I bought his inventory because it was cheap enough and had some real cards of value and a ton of supplies. I burned the few remaining counterfeits and Ripken, Jeter, A-Rod bats.

Don't be like my friend, stay away from get something for cheap schemes.

I think this might be a mallard auction.

[bnorth]

I am hoping my bids on 37 cards hold up for another 9 1/2 hours.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by BoyWonder089

No video either . Appears they only wanted to highlight people giving them a chance.

He talks a lot, but only about what he wants to talk about, creating the illusion of responsiveness.

[Paul S]

.

[botn]

Originally Posted by CandimanAuctions

Hey guys,

This will be the last time I am able to post for a while. I will be very busy with the auction ending tomorrow, then packing and shipping, and preparing for our April auction.

I want to thank the many of you who listened to our story. I'm not going to go over everything that has been said. It can all be read from the beginning of the thread up to now. We have done our best to engage with as many people as possible on here and I believe have been respectful to everyone we have engaged with. Despite the harsh criticism, which Leon told me would happen when I spoke with him on the phone, I am glad we got on here and posted our story. We have nothing to hide. We created Candiman Auctions using our names knowing we would be in for an uphill battle. In the end I believe it will all be worth it. We love this hobby and want to be a part of it for years to come. For all of those who are skeptical and not fully comfortable bidding in our auctions yet, I understand. Time will tell the true story and that's something we simply can't attain overnight. We will be running several more auctions this year so please keep a watch out for them. I believe we will have some great items that many will be interested in.

Also, I want to personally thank Leon for speaking with me at length on the phone prior to posting this thread. Leon, I appreciate all of your advice. I hope to speak with you again soon. You are a great ambassador for this hobby and we have great respect for you.

Thanks,

Daniel & Justin

Nice! You opted to reply a dozen times last night but only to people who showed neutrality but decided not to even address the subject of the tiny scans you provide? I get that you do not want to touch the use of the word "appears" again.

Unlike several on the board I fully support your decision to not have the cards graded. I think it is a mistake for many reasons but that is your choice if you or your consignors want to leave money on the table as well as not offer the peace of mind to your buyers. If you are not going to take the time and money to get the cards graded then take a stand and issue a definitive grade on a card and put up a large clear scan.

[Jenx34]

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

I did laugh out loud at the post calling for someone to call the Alabama AG. I would love to give these guys the benefit of the doubt but they haven’t done anything to warrant it. The timing of this auction house is amazing. I mean they start doing business immediately after mom and pop get booted from eBay. I also find it hard to believe they have 25 other consignors besides mom and dad.

I laughed too. Then I thought.... Haven't they pretty much admitted their parents committed fraud? Perhaps not, but that seems like it would be valuable should the AG want to build a case.

[frankbmd]

For those of us who value our sleep, at least we will not have stay up for what could be yet another thrilling all-nighter auction. There’s a silver lining in every thread, as for most of us the battle is assuredly already over.

[oldjudge]

Why would anyone with ANY doubt bid in this auction. It's not like we are running out of auction houses. Every day seems to generate new ones.

[Butch7999]

Originally Posted by frankbmd

For those of us who value our sleep, at least we will not have stay up for what could be yet another thrilling all-nighter auction. There’s a silver lining in every thread, as for most of us the battle is assuredly already over.

Saw what you did there...

[irv]

Originally Posted by frankbmd

For those of us who value our sleep, at least we will not have stay up for what could be yet another thrilling all-nighter auction. There’s a silver lining in every thread, as for most of us the battle is assuredly already over.

If only they were playing on a level playing field.

[BengoughingForAwhile]

wrong thread

[ALR-bishop]

Now that would have been a great name for this effort

[Stonepony]

I can't help thinking how it would go down if Candiman became a Net54 advertiser

[wolf441]

Originally Posted by Stonepony

I can't help thinking how it would go down if Candiman became a Net54 advertiser

Don't be a dick.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Stonepony

I can't help thinking how it would go down if Candiman became a Net54 advertiser

Originally Posted by wolf441

Don't be a dick.

^^+1^^ Are you trying to get me kicked off here by answering that silly question?

[buymycards]

Originally Posted by Sophiedog

In the 1990's right before and in the beginning of PSA card grading, quite a few big card dealers were opposed to the idea of card grading. Very few collectors had computers and there was no Ebay. SCD was a source for many including myself to buy cards. Some dealers would put their cards in holders and put a tamperproof sticker across the opening so if you wanted to inspect the cards there was no returning the cards because the seal was broken. Many trimmed and cards that had creases were sold that way. TC Card Co was the most honest dealer of all my dealings through SCD. When he said a card was NM/MT it was. Do any of you guys remember those days?
As a side note I was at the 1989? show in Atlantic City. In the elevator one guy was telling another "We're going to have a good show, I'm going to make the T cards Mint" The card graders are not prefect, but you are much better off with them than without them in my opinion. Trimming was rampant before them.
To the brothers starting the new auction company: You have to have all the cards graded nowadays; all signed pieces too. Everything has to be graded; that's just how it's done. Good Luck.

Before we all had scanners and eBay and TPG's, you couldn't trust anyone. About 20 years ago I bought my first two prewar cards from Teletrade. The first was an EX T206 Clark Griffith card that came back from PSA as trimmed. The second was a M116 Blue Background that wasn't really a Blue Background.

That ended my purchasing from Teletrade.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by buymycards

Before we all had scanners and eBay and TPG's, you couldn't trust anyone. About 20 years ago I bought my first two prewar cards from Teletrade. The first was an EX T206 Clark Griffith card that came back from PSA as trimmed. The second was a M116 Blue Background that wasn't really a Blue Background.

That ended my purchasing from Teletrade.

Teletrade was insane. That robotic voice on the phone, the frantic phone calls trying to get through close to 10 PM. I did pretty well buying ungraded stuff there, luck of the draw I guess.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

http://www.candimanauctions.com/Ted_...x__-LOT17.aspx

VG...

With creases, surface scratches, rounded corners and writing on the back... but at least there's a back scan

[T206Collector]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

the illusion of responsiveness.

Yes, exactly!

[cardsnstuff]

I hope if anyone bids, they give us the results after they send them in. I for one am very curious. But the more I look at some cards, the more I think like some one said "ther could be gold in them ther hills"............................

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by cardsnstuff

I hope if anyone bids, they give us the results after they send them in. I for one am very curious. But the more I look at some cards, the more I think like some one said "ther could be gold in them ther hills"............................

in your dreams!

[cardsnstuff]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

in your dreams!

That's what I mean; some of them really seem to good to be true

[bensie]

Originally Posted by cardsnstuff

I hope if anyone bids, they give us the results after they send them in. I for one am very curious. But the more I look at some cards, the more I think like some one said "ther could be gold in them ther hills"............................

I was just now outbid on the 56 nm+ mantle. I would have for sure let you guys know the result after I sent it to psa. I'm still considering jumping back in since it is a pretty card and it's for my PC

[Leon]

Originally Posted by wolf441

Don't be a dick.

As for them advertising here, not a snowball's chance in hell as of now.

[Batpig]

Originally Posted by bensie

I was just now outbid on the 56 nm+ mantle. I would have for sure let you guys know the result after I sent it to psa. I'm still considering jumping back in since it is a pretty card and it's for my PC

That was the card I was watching. I never bid, but I must have looked it over a dozen times. I just kept coming back to the fact that it's just the type of card that Battlefield would have cracked to sell raw. It also has the appearance of an 8, and no worse than 7. If it isnt altered and doesn't have some other hidden flaw, they left several thousand dollars on the table by not grading. That's what kept me from jumping.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Leon

As for them advertising here, not a snowball's chance in hell as of now.

I'd say a thread with 21,000+ views is sort of like advertising (good or bad).

[cardsnstuff]

anyone win anything? Will you be sending it in?

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by Batpig

That was the card I was watching. I never bid, but I must have looked it over a dozen times. I just kept coming back to the fact that it's just the type of card that Battlefield would have cracked to sell raw. It also has the appearance of an 8, and no worse than 7. If it isnt altered and doesn't have some other hidden flaw, they left several thousand dollars on the table by not grading. That's what kept me from jumping.

Exactly...that line of thought made me underbidder on NUMEROUS cards I could have been more aggressive on. The Brooks Robinson rookie....the same 1956 Mantle as everyone else. The Fran Tarkenton. Hell, I could go on and on. About the only one I felt good about, and didn't really mind losing was the 1954 Hank Aaron rookie graded PSA A (Altered). I least I KNEW that one was altered. The others almost looked too good to be true, and I'm thinking there are going to be some disappointed buyers after PSA returns the cards 6 months from now. I hope that is not the case, but I have my doubts.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by cardsnstuff

anyone win anything? Will you be sending it in?

Looked a few minutes ago and I won 37 cards for 2 sets I am working on. I collect lower end cards so there will be no grading involved.

[calvindog]

All the high grade-looking raw cards in the auction are altered. The question is whether they get past the graders. No auction house in business to make money would offer a near mint, registry-popular valuable card without getting it graded first. This is a fact.

[bensie]

Originally Posted by cardsnstuff

anyone win anything? Will you be sending it in?

Ended up winning a lower end Reggie Jackson rc and a couple of cheap Roger Clemens cards, one of which was already graded. I doubt I will submit anything to PSA.

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by bensie

Ended up winning a lower end Reggie Jackson rc and a couple of cheap Roger Clemens cards, one of which was already graded. I doubt I will submit anything to PSA.

“The road to hell is paved with good intentions.”

[joshuanip]

When I submitted my collection to SCP last year, not only did they grade everything, but they also reholdered my older cards to make sure they were not tampered.

Two reasons, one to get maximum dollars for the consignment and two to make sure the buyer knows what he’s buying as opined by a third party. And this was for smaller dollar items as well.

The rationale why an auction house doesn’t want to achieve these objectives and rather sell the cards raw was the main reason why I didn’t participate in this auction.

Separately I showed my wife the auction and this thread, she has no experience with auctions or with cards for that matter but he first question she had was how do you know the previous owners of battlefield is not bidding up their own items? I couldn’t answer that conflict of interest...

[ZiggerZagger]

Really interesting looking over the final prices from the Auction last night.

No doubt prices could have been higher, but the Battles Bros still monetized about 50K+ of their inventory, assuming that the handful of "outside consignors" weren't making up for a lot of the items.
Plus that sweet, sweet 20% buyer's premium as the cherry on top. It's a pretty efficient business model by any account.

I hope folks are happy once they receive the cards, and that we have robust feedback on the board from everyone that bid and won.


And after the reaction on here, how could folks fail to be intrigued, after all: 'There's no such thing as bad publicity' -- PT Barnum, Oscar Wilde, DJT, or whomever you want to attribute that original sentiment to...

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by ZiggerZagger

Really interesting looking over the final prices from the Auction last night.

No doubt prices could have been higher, but the Battles Bros still monetized about 50K+ of their inventory, assuming that the handful of "outside consignors" weren't making up for a lot of the items.
Plus that sweet, sweet 20% buyer's premium as the cherry on top. It's a pretty efficient business model by any account.

I hope folks are happy once they receive the cards, and that we have robust feedback on the board from everyone that bid and won.


And after the reaction on here, how could folks fail to be intrigued, after all: 'There's no such thing as bad publicity' -- PT Barnum, Oscar Wilde, DJT, or whomever you want to attribute that original sentiment to...

didn't pt barnum also say theres a sucker born every day!

[ullmandds]

I stand corrected...and even more accurately his quote said..."there's a sucker born every minute!"

[PiratesWS1979]

Originally Posted by ZiggerZagger

Plus that sweet, sweet 20% buyer's premium as the cherry on top. It's a pretty efficient business model by any account.

Don't forget the 13% eBay/PayPal charges they save.

[botn]

At this point they are willing to refund on cards not described as altered that come back as such after being submitted so the losses are limited to the cost of grading. The problem is that the overwhelming majority of their stuff is not altered but will most likely turn out to be severely overgraded which they hid with small scans. No recourse there so hopefully for the Battles they have lots of customers like Ben who do not care and will not be submitting. The Battles could be in business for a very very long time.

And as far as their having consignors other than their parents I do not believe it for a second. I think Daniel wrote they had 15 other consignors--all of whom had raw cards and none of whom wanted to get them graded. What are the odds?

[conor912]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

"There's a sucker born every minute!"

...and two to take him.

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by botn

At this point they are willing to refund on cards not described as altered that come back as such after being submitted so the losses are limited to the cost of grading. The problem is that the overwhelming majority of their stuff is not altered but will most likely turn out to be severely overgraded which they hid with small scans. No recourse there so hopefully for the Battles they have lots of customers like Ben who do not care and will not be submitting. The Battles could be in business for a very very long time.

And as far as their having consignors other than their parents I do not believe it for a second. I think Daniel wrote they had 15 other consignors--all of whom had raw cards and none of whom wanted to get them graded. What are the odds?

+1...also I'd assume there is a timeline for money back "warranty" and with PSA's timely service this could curtail returns.

[PiratesWS1979]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

+1...also I'd assume there is a timeline for money back "warranty" and with PSA's timely service this could curtail returns.

I'm 99% positive PSA is well aware of this auction and the cards involved. Maybe the submitters should write on the box "Candiman Auctions" and see what happens.

[pclpads]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

didn't pt barnum also say theres a sucker born every day!

No. That was Stormy Daniels.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by PiratesWS1979

I'm 99% positive PSA is well aware of this auction and the cards involved. Maybe the submitters should write on the box "Candiman Auctions" and see what happens.

Or maybe a card should be graded on its own merit without any preconceived notions?

And I highly doubt PSA gives a crap about the source of which a card was obtained for submission.

Any submitter ever been asked by a TPG, "Where did you obtain this card?"

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Or maybe a card should be graded on its own merit without any preconceived notions?

And I highly doubt PSA gives a crap about the source of which a card was obtained for submission.

Any submitter ever been asked by a TPG, "Where did you obtain this card?"

Yes actually but that was a long time ago, Mike Baker called me about some cards that it turned out were trimmed and wanted to know the source.

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

+1...also I'd assume there is a timeline for money back "warranty" and with PSA's timely service this could curtail returns.

Hopefully those winning items in this auction are paying with a credit card. At least they will have the option to dispute a charge if the card received is not as described.

[mantlefan]

Two thoughts:

1. Remember to put "OK to slab as trimmed" on you PSA subs. Otherwise you will get your cards back in the cardboard slab with an "N1 trimmed. Not graded" label.


2. Hope I'm wrong, but pray that Candiman is still in business when you try to return stuff. This could be an attempt to unload $50,000 of inventory and disappear (or declare bankruptcy).

[Cliff Bowman]

Originally Posted by pclpads

No. That was Stormy Daniels.

It must drive you insane that every morning when you wake up you realize that it wasn't a bad dream, it's reality.