Steve Verkman and Clean Sweep Auctions

[Archive]

Posted By: botn

A friend of mine had decided to start collecting caramel cards. He is still learning and is not doing enough listening. He participated in the most recent Clean Sweep Auction, despite my warning him.

He is now going to sue Steve in Small Claims as Steve refuses to take the card back. I am posting this here for those that lurk so that they can avoid this unnecessary conflict in the future.

Notice the back that Steve refers to has a "scrape". Here is what he got for about $600 OTD...

[Archive]

Posted By: jay behrens

Just have him sent it to PSA and it should pull a 4, maybe even a 5.

Jay

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Posted By: Adam J. Baxter

Being an N712 collector, I'm used to back damage and this would definitly be considered paper loss and not merely a scrape. If one were even stricter about grading, one could even call it a case of partial skinning as almost 25% of the first layer of the back of this Wagner is just plain gone. I recently started collecting caramels myself and I just won my first auction from Clean Sweep, a ten dollar E90-1 in GOOD condition, so I really can't throw out any opinions either way on Clean Sweep auctions or Steve Verkman. I can only say that this damage is more severe then a scrape and that I honestly don't know if I would've paid quite as much for this card as the winning bidder did. Hope the situation gets worked out.

Regards,
Adam

[Archive]

Posted By: botn

Jay,

The bottom portion of the card would have to be cut off in order for PSA to grade it. There is just too much card there to holder.

Greg

[Archive]

Posted By: Aaron Michiel

"he participated in the most recent Clean Sweep Auction, despite my warning him."

I've never bought from Verkman or participated in a Clean Sweep auction. (Although I had a very recent near miss thanks to a poster on this board.)

Why stay away?

[Archive]

Posted By: runscott

However, there is an advantage to buying from people who don't know what they are doing - sometimes you get something BETTER than what was described.

Also, my brother buys from him all the time and doesn't mind at all the crap-shoot aspect of his auctions, so to each his own.

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Posted By: julie

but for sale after a couple of terribe ripoffs, (trimmed cards), i wanted a m101-2 jackson--had someone here to look at it , and declared it to be o.k.

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Posted By: warshawlaw

I bought one expensive card from Verkman and it was everything it was advertised to be. I yhen bought several "near mint" cards from him and received creased cards that would have rated ex=ex-mt at best without the creases.

My view: so much of a crapshoot that it isn't worth the effort to buy non-SGC graded materials from him.

[Archive]

Posted By: TBob

Being lied to about the whereabouts of a card you paid for certainly qualifies (one employee said it was in Hawaii, another said it was accidentally sent to Nebraska, a third said it was "lost") or how about "gee, we cashed your money order and confirmed your winning bid in our auction but it turns out you didn't win the card after all because your bid was never officially entered", or finally the fact they consider EXMT cards with back damage to be VGEX.
I do hear some comments that they have a liberal return policy to make up for their obvious misrepresntations and problems but the issue over the Wagner "scrape" seems to fly in the face of these comments I have heard.

[Archive]

Posted By: Jeff M.

[The bottom portion of the card would have to be cut off in order for PSA to grade it. There is just too much card there to holder.]


Hi Greg,
I was wondering if this card were cut to the proper size would any of the big 3 grade it? Or would they call it trimmed and if so how could they say it was trimmed when it measures correct. Just trying to understand this. Thanks, Jeff

[Archive]

Posted By: runscott

Lee kinda scared me when he said he measured his t206s to determine whether or not they were trimmed.

Grading companies realize, like all of us should, that while some pre-wwI issues vary very little in size (1915 CJ's for instance), most will be mostly the same size, but with plenty of "outliers". With that in mind, any grading company that just measures and loads, without inspecting the borders for evidence of x-acto knife visits, isn't any better than PRO. This is one of the reasons I have problems with a company cross-grading cards without de-holdering them.

[Archive]

Posted By: leon

I agree with you about some forms of tampering in that it would/could be hard to detect through plastic. On my card (they called me about) they could probably see the corners well enough to see it might not make an 84 (7). I would imagine they can see most cards well enough, grade wise, through plastic to know if they are going to ding it a grade or not (and I guess it could go up a grade,,..yeah right)...but that's just an educated guess.....and NO size is not everything on our gems.....later

[Archive]

Posted By: runscott

It's obvious that some trim-jobs are good enough to occasionally get by even the best grading companies, so for an "almost great" trim-job, perhaps the only way to discover it would be by checking the edges very closely. For instance, if someone sent that NM t206 Wagner to SGC for cross-over, I would expect SGC to check those borders pretty closely - better than you could do through a holder. But since that particular card was probably de-sized on all four borders, comparing the cuts relative to each other wouldn't tell you much;however, there are plenty of trims that only involve 1 or 2 borders - these should be easier to spot, but even easier to spot if not in plastic. I have tried to look at the edges of cards through that plastic, and you just can't see the entire edge.

[Archive]

Posted By: botn

Hi Greg,
I was wondering if this card were cut to the proper size would any of the big 3 grade it? Or would they call it trimmed and if so how could they say it was trimmed when it measures correct. Just trying to understand this. Thanks, Jeff

Jeff,

I was just joking with Jay. I was referring to a Mayo that PSA had just graded that was missing the entire bottom portion of the card. None of the grading companies are supposed to grade cards that do not possess the original cuts (as determined by size and by edge consistency for the issue. The exceptions are cards which were intended to be cut after being issued (Post, Briggs Meats, Johnston Cookies, etc).

Greg

[Archive]

Posted By: Jeff M.

Thanks for the info guys.

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Posted By: warshawlaw

I collect several types of T cards. The larger ones (T218, T220, etc.) tend to vary markedly. It is not unusual to find a T220 card a full 1/8" larger than normal, with a nicely worn line on it from sticking above the stack and weathering. The companies just cannot judge these things on size alone.

[Archive]

Posted By: TBob

Especially the M116 Sporting Lifes. I have bought PSA and SGC M116s which measured shorter than raw ones which were refused because they were too short. Because the M116s went out in envelopes instead of tobacco packs and candy boxes, you'll find them with nice sharp edges and I think the grading companies are so caught up with the trimming issues that they tend to feel that they will reject 10 good ones rather than grade one trimmed one.
Speaking of GAI, the T206 Wagner would probably never have made it by them as they are brutal on rejecting cards which they feel are "sheet cut." I am not exactly sure what this means as I assumed all cards were cut from sheets by the printers (duh) but GAI claims that they can differentiate cards recently cut from sheets from ones cut originally. (I guess you have to ask Messr. Baker) Maybe they can, but why in the world would anyone cut blue background M116s like my Bresnahan which appears NMT from a frigging sheet and not sell the sheet intact and make a fortune???? Just wondering...

[Archive]

Posted By: Lee Behrens

First of all I would like to say that I think it is cool that I scared Scott and I'm a thousand miles away from him.

On the Verkman note, I recently won 2 auctions from them (2 e107s). After making payment I had not heard from them for a month, so I called. I foound out that they had received my payment but had not shipped because they could not find one of the cards. Well they wer unable to find the card, I wonder how long it would have taken to get my card if I did not call. Well they offered to do the logical thing and give me back all the money for the lost card. They did not even offer me any kind of compensation for the inconvience, this has gotten me to think if I want to continue to bid in their auctions.
This was my first purchase from them and I would have to think that there would be something better than sorry we lost the card you won, but we will give you your money back.

I have not yet received the card but hope to do so soon.

Hey Scott, BOO

[Archive]

Posted By: brian

SV was pulling the same hi-jinks in the auctions 6-7 years ago, as around four of the ten lots I won had mysteriously been 'lost'. It took several phone calls over a period of a month and finally a demand to just send my money back before they finally sent out a check.

I swore them off until earlier this year, when they had some cards I wanted enough to actually consider bidding again. I bid, of course, with the realization that the cards would be overgraded. At least he didn't lose them. Boy, does he suck.

Brian

[Archive]

Posted By: Lee Behrens

I received the card today (E107 Criger). As it turns out it is an E107 Criger but not the same card I bid on in the scan. I have phoned them, but will not be able to talk to anyone in the know until Tuesday. I will keep you updated.

Lee

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Posted By: BcD

then years later he told me after looking at his computer index,what a great deal I got three years prior when I called him about something he had for sale! I choose not to deal with him any longer regardless of what he offers.

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Posted By: botn

He fits the typical dealer profile perfectly and would rank high amongst those to avoid.

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Posted By: murcerfan

I would say the typical dealer shoots a bit straighter.

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Posted By: TBob

is that his employees lie also, but none of them can seem to get their stories straight, so instead of consistent lying, you get different stories all the time. I can not believe that one person can actually "lose" so many cards over the years. He was doing it in the early 90's and it looks like those frigging cards are still hiding from him in his shop!

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Posted By: BcD

He uses a voice over instrument you attach to the phone. Who the hell would work for this greedy bastard. He is a Michael Milken of card dealers!
Beware my brother's beware!

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Posted By: Lee Behrens

I now by the responses that many of you do not approve of Verkman and they are on my wary list. But I talked to Steve Verkman today and my situation was handled in a very professional manner with all the concerns and gaurantees you would expect. I just wanted to give him his fair shake in my situation.

Lee

[Archive]

Posted By: botn

Lee,

All due respect to you, but one transaction handled properly does not redeem Verkman. He has a long list of people who he has sent packing.

I am glad that your situation turned out to your liking but to me, and those who I speak to about him, he is and will always be pond scum. Despite turning up desirable cards now and again, the hobby does not need people like him who do business as he does--deceptively.

Greg

[Archive]

Posted By: Lee Behrens

I value the opinions of most everyone on this board. Verkman is still on my "wary" list. AAnd if I have a doubt I will probably shy away from the item. I just wanted to point out that I was done right for the most part and thought it was deserved to be mentioned along with the rest of the thread.

Lee

[Archive]

Posted By: Adam J. Baxter

You know what really bothers me? It bothers me when you win a lot from the October 2003 Clean Sweep Auction. You send a check for your lot. The check is cashed the first week of November. The fourth week of November rolls up and you still haven't received your lot. Then to top it all off, your receiving e-mails encouraging you to bid on the next Clean Sweep Auction and you haven't received your lot from TWO auctions previous. ?. If that doesn't make a bidder at least a little nervous, I don't know what does? I've contacted them and I'm hoping it all works out. Still not a great customer service strategy, though.

[Archive]

Posted By: Adam J. Baxter

I think that I got a bit caught up in the spirit of this thread and passed my judgement a little too quickly on CSA. I did receive my card and it was as described and packaged well. Steve also responded to my e-mail inquiry promptly. My experience thus far with CSA has been positive. I make it a priority to back up other members of this board when they are having problems with a particular dealer, seller, buyer or whatever, but in this instance, I definitely passed a premature judgement regarding my transaction with him. That does not mean that I would not support another forum member who was having problems with CSA, but in my case I don't have any complaints with Steve or CSA's customer service.

[Archive]

Posted By: runscott

I believe you were the one who posted the email from Dr. Koos recently (disguised as "Paul Adams"), just to let us all know what an honest guy he was.

I know you weren't born yesterday, but first Koos and now Verkman...it's starting to seem like maybe it was day before yesterday.

[Archive]

Posted By: Lee Behrens

All I offered was the response from this fellow, not being for or against him. It was an auction I waas not going to bid on since it was full of ?????'s.

Scott, I think Iam getting turned to the "Dark Side", they are using their Jedi mind tricks on me.

[Archive]

Posted By: MW

edited

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Posted By: Lee Behrens

Is that what PSA using for the buyers to pay such outragous prices? Jedi Mind Tricks

"You will submit to PSA, You will pay outragous prices for PSA graded cards". Damn that Obi-Wan Kenobi.

[Archive]

Posted By: runscott

Koos was very convincing, as he is a good writer.

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Posted By: Julie

I paid for my item (1874 Harper's Woodcut--with Spaulding--) the day after the auction, overnight express. 12 days later, I got a bill. So I called, left a message. He called back: "Your payment just arrived yesterday," he said. Who knows? It could be true, knowing the USPS.

[Archive]

Posted By: botn

It is very easy to determine of Verkman is once again full of it. Go to http://www.usps.com/?/ and enter your express mail article number on their tracking function and see when it was received.

Greg

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Posted By: Julie Vognar

I checked out my "express" payment. I mailed it on Thurs, Nov. 20, 3:00 P.M., which was--well, it got to Steve Monday, the 24th. They promised Saturday, Nov, 22, but it didn't get there (he may or may not have been in on Saturday--I assume he wrote me from his office today, which was a Saturday). To make up for it, P.O. attempted TWO deliveries on Sunday, when no sensible businessman is at work. Verkman signed for it Monday, Nov. 24.
I no longer remember when his bill came (Verkman's incensedness (WORD) came from the fact that I said "12 days" when it couldn't have been). I also don't remember, therefore, when I called him and left a message, or when he called me back and said my payment had just arrived the day before.

I don't even remember when the blinking auction closed!
I was amazed to get the complaining e-mail from him, even though I got the date wrong, because, of all the complaints about him in this column, mine was surely the mildest. When I have posted about him earlier, I always mention the trimmed 33 Goudey Berg, AND the excellent M101-2 Jackson, which makes it kind of a wash...

[supraman84]

I just made my 1st purchase from clean sweep for about 2 Grand. Each item I purchased stated it came with JSA LOA. Much to my disappointment every item I purchased came with an AUCTION JSA LOA. BIG DIFFERENCE! I Paid assuming it was as stated. I contacted Steve from clean sweep and he was not very sympatric to my response. I stated that every auction should state they are AUCTION letters and not JSA LOA's. He said since ALL of his auctions are with AUCTION letters I could have contacted them and they would have told me as such and since they do not do "Full LOA's" they do not specify. I said "Then tell your customer's that!" IF 100% are AUCTION letters tell them in both the write-up by description or show a picture of it there too AND put it in your Auction site rules and FAQs. People need informed. He said that people don't want to pay the extra for the FUll LOA's. I said again... TELL THEM THAT as I overpaid assuming it was a True LOA so I got screwed twice once on the overpayment and did not get what I paid for. He said basically there was nothing they could do. I'm not done pursuing it as I feel I overpaid about $350 - $400 under their deceptive practices. I told them to fix it in the future write-ups but I'm sure it fell on deaf ears. Why else would you not be truthful except that it would take away from profits of higher bidding! Shame on Clean Sweep Auctions for such deceptive practices. All other sites I buy from are truthful AND list on each and everyone what type of COA / LOA you are getting. I just want to say that I am not questioning whether their products are authentic as I believe they are and believe everyone I purchased is. The issue is upgrading each item to the JSA LOA's which they advertise as from the Auction letter is an amount between $50 and $150 depending on the item and number of signatures on it...not counting shipping and insurance to send it to JSA for the "real" JSA LOA.

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by supraman84

I just made my 1st purchase from clean sweep for about 2 Grand. Each item I purchased stated it came with JSA LOA. Much to my disappointment every item I purchased came with an AUCTION JSA LOA. BIG DIFFERENCE! I Paid assuming it was as stated. I contacted Steve from clean sweep and he was not very sympatric to my response. I stated that every auction should state they are AUCTION letters and not JSA LOA's. He said since ALL of his auctions are with AUCTION letters I could have contacted them and they would have told me as such and since they do not do "Full LOA's" they do not specify. I said "Then tell your customer's that!" IF 100% are AUCTION letters tell them in both the write-up by description or show a picture of it there too AND put it in your Auction site rules and FAQs. People need informed. He said that people don't want to pay the extra for the FUll LOA's. I said again... TELL THEM THAT as I overpaid assuming it was a True LOA so I got screwed twice once on the overpayment and did not get what I paid for. He said basically there was nothing they could do. I'm not done pursuing it as I feel I overpaid about $350 - $400 under their deceptive practices. I told them to fix it in the future write-ups but I'm sure it fell on deaf ears. Why else would you not be truthful except that it would take away from profits of higher bidding! Shame on Clean Sweep Auctions for such deceptive practices. All other sites I buy from are truthful AND list on each and everyone what type of COA / LOA you are getting. I just want to say that I am not questioning whether their products are authentic as I believe they are and believe everyone I purchased is. The issue is upgrading each item to the JSA LOA's which they advertise as from the Auction letter is an amount between $50 and $150 depending on the item and number of signatures on it...not counting shipping and insurance to send it to JSA for the "real" JSA LOA.

I am unsure what the beef is. I thought that was standard operating procedure. They are never a full blow letter, but they are saying they are real and if you want to spend the extra $$$, they will send you a letter confirming that they are real. Just a money making ploy, and no one puts much credence in them.

[ls7plus]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

I am unsure what the beef is. I thought that was standard operating procedure. They are never a full blow letter, but they are saying they are real and if you want to spend the extra $$$, they will send you a letter confirming that they are real. Just a money making ploy, and no one puts much credence in them.

+1. It is also my understanding that this is in fact standard operating procedure for an auction. I just won a 1946-47 Team Issue period-autographed photo of Ted Williams with the same letter, and have no problems with it. Whenever I have had questions concerning an item, Clean Sweep has never failed to respond in a complete and honest manner. I have been doing business with Steve and Clean Sweep for at least 15 years, and have had no problems whatsoever with them.

Best wishes,

Larry

[Clydewally]

I just had to return an item to a seller who gave me the JSA auction LOA along with the item with the understanding I could return it if JSA failed to give the full letter. JSA returned the item to me as secretarial when I sought to upgrade to the full letter. So I have lost lots of confidence in the auction LOA. I don't know that they pay much attention to these AH Lots.

ken

Ken

[Brian Van Horn]

I have dealt with Verkman in person and through his online auction. About my only concern is he seems a little high strung, but if I worried eccentricities, including my own, I wouldn't be in this hobby.

On a side note, the first message in this thread is from October 2003. It shows two things:

1.) A history of concern.
2.) That this thread is about to hit puberty. A new thread may be in order.

[prewarsports]

Some auction houses issue full JSA letters but many that issue auction LOA's will state in the description "Auction LOA from JSA" so that you know what you are getting.

[travrosty]

it should be stated auction loa, if it is an auction loa, to just say jsa loa is not right if it is actually an auction loa.

[bigfish]

I have dealt with Steve for over 20 years without any issues. I don't have an issue buying low end autos with auction loas. I would expect a Ruth or Cobb auto to have a full loa. I think that's understood.

[travrosty]

Originally Posted by bigfish

I have dealt with Steve for over 20 years without any issues. I don't have an issue buying low end autos with auction loas. I would expect a Ruth or Cobb auto to have a full loa. I think that's understood.

If people dont mind buying an auction loa with certain items and understand a high end item like ruth or gehrig would have a full loa, that is fine, but it should be disclosed on every auction if it is an auction house loa or a full loa. that takes about 5 seconds of typing and leaves nothing to misconstrue.

[supraman84]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

I am unsure what the beef is. I thought that was standard operating procedure. They are never a full blow letter, but they are saying they are real and if you want to spend the extra $$$, they will send you a letter confirming that they are real. Just a money making ploy, and no one puts much credence in them.

If they say JSA LOA it should mean LOA's not Auction LOA. It is not standard operating procedures. If you buy "Sealed" HP toner from someone on EBay, should you assume it's a compatible toner or the real HP toner? I would assume the real if that states it that way and don't show enough information to tell you otherwise. I've bid from many sites and this is the only one that does not tell you it's Auction letters not real LOA's. The beef is to buy and believe you are getting the real deal only to have to pay between $50 and $150 per item to upgrade to what they are advertising it at.

[supraman84]

Originally Posted by Clydewally

I just had to return an item to a seller who gave me the JSA auction LOA along with the item with the understanding I could return it if JSA failed to give the full letter. JSA returned the item to me as secretarial when I sought to upgrade to the full letter. So I have lost lots of confidence in the auction LOA. I don't know that they pay much attention to these AH Lots.

ken

Ken

That's exactly WHY I am writing about their site saying JSA LOA's when in fact they are not and are Auction LOA's. I overpaid on my paid a purchase price based on this deception. Now I will have to pay more which ruins my investment value on my items purchased.

[Sophiedog]

Originally Posted by supraman84

I just made my 1st purchase from clean sweep for about 2 Grand. Each item I purchased stated it came with JSA LOA. Much to my disappointment every item I purchased came with an AUCTION JSA LOA. BIG DIFFERENCE! I Paid assuming it was as stated. I contacted Steve from clean sweep and he was not very sympatric to my response. I stated that every auction should state they are AUCTION letters and not JSA LOA's. He said since ALL of his auctions are with AUCTION letters I could have contacted them and they would have told me as such and since they do not do "Full LOA's" they do not specify. I said "Then tell your customer's that!" IF 100% are AUCTION letters tell them in both the write-up by description or show a picture of it there too AND put it in your Auction site rules and FAQs. People need informed. He said that people don't want to pay the extra for the FUll LOA's. I said again... TELL THEM THAT as I overpaid assuming it was a True LOA so I got screwed twice once on the overpayment and did not get what I paid for. He said basically there was nothing they could do. I'm not done pursuing it as I feel I overpaid about $350 - $400 under their deceptive practices. I told them to fix it in the future write-ups but I'm sure it fell on deaf ears. Why else would you not be truthful except that it would take away from profits of higher bidding! Shame on Clean Sweep Auctions for such deceptive practices. All other sites I buy from are truthful AND list on each and everyone what type of COA / LOA you are getting. I just want to say that I am not questioning whether their products are authentic as I believe they are and believe everyone I purchased is. The issue is upgrading each item to the JSA LOA's which they advertise as from the Auction letter is an amount between $50 and $150 depending on the item and number of signatures on it...not counting shipping and insurance to send it to JSA for the "real" JSA LOA.

I agree with you. If it says JSA LOA it should be the full Letter of Authenticity and NOT an auction house letter. I'd be pissed too because chances are I would have bid a little higher thinking I was getting the full LOA