Raynors' auction item not Honus

[bmarlowe1]

This pinback is currently up here (lot# 610):

http://www.hcaauctions.com/Rare-Honu...-LOT37469.aspx

The description says:
Very rare Honus Wagner pinback, c. 1898-9, 1” diameter, with great sepia-toned image of a very young Wagner at center.

I know I've seen this before but I don't remember where.

[bmarlowe1]

Below left is the image from the pinback, below right is Honus from the 1903 Breisch-Williams card. Da.veGr.ob has suggested use of a grid, and I think this is a good application for it. It makes the difference in ear size and shape very obvious (outlined in red). That’s enough, but it’s useful to point out a few more things.

The grid also makes it easy to compare hairlines (blue rectangles). It’s easy to see how far back the hair goes at the part. The hairline for the guy on the pinback is noticeably farther back. The grid also makes Honus’s wider jaw (on the lower left) very evident. We don’t need the grid to see that the pinback guy had a somewhat turned up nose while Wagner had an bulbous nose tip that was not at all turned up.

[icollectDCsports]

Well done. Hopefully it will save someone some $.

[ethicsprof]

great work, as always, Mark.
I must say that this comparison wasn't even close. Looks more like my neighbor than Honus.
I'm glad you are on the watch for us.

all the best,
barry

[perezfan]

Looks much more like Ryan Gosling than Wags

[Econteachert205]

I like the grid, it helps you focus on one feature at a time, great job as always.

[Lordstan]

Nice work.
Did you happen to use the grid on either of the other controversial photos that have been discussed recently?

[bmarlowe1]

Originally Posted by Lordstan

Nice work.
Did you happen to use the grid on either of the other controversial photos that have been discussed recently?

For "Comiskey" I did not. After you scale the faces, the ear sizes are about the same. The shape is so different and the viewing angle is nearly identical - I thought that would be easy enough to see. The image quality is not good, so the only other thing I could see is the nose, which appears to be very different from Comiskey's somewhat pointy turned-up nose. I didn't know if a grid would help to see that.

The grid could have been used for "Radbourn" because the overall proportions were so far off, but that was just too ludicrous to be worth the time.

[1880nonsports]

I love this site is it prompts me to explore many subjects I wouldn't otherwise. For full disclosure - mostly it's not baseball per se. Good thing/ bad thing as often it's just mental masturbation - not that there's anything wrong with that - it helps me avoid what I should be doing. I've taken to the interweb twice in the past couple of weeks as a result of reading the Commy thread to devine the differences between ear growth that would relate to the cell production rates of cartilage as one ages and ear size which can be a product of gravity. Apparently while the growth is almost imperceptible a short time after adolescence until much later in life - they do continue to grow throughout ones life. Not the entire ear - only certain parts btw. As for gravity - I can only speak to it anecdotally - but it all seems to be hanging lower..........
Of course there was no real question about the Comiskey double and the op's wild departure from reality. I hadn't seen the Wagner listing but I don't think anyone really needs a grid to see it's not him (although it's a really neat tool!) - but apparently the AH might have....... Next time someone lists a picture of the virgin Mary on a piece of toast - I'm gonna use it.

[bmarlowe1]

Originally Posted by 1880nonsports

...I've taken to the interweb twice in the past couple of weeks as a result of reading the Commy thread to devine the differences between ear growth that would relate to the cell production rates of cartilage as one ages and ear size which can be a product of gravity. Apparently while the growth is almost imperceptible a short time after adolescence until much later in life - they do continue to grow throughout ones life. Not the entire ear - only certain parts btw. As for gravity - I can only speak to it anecdotally - but it all seems to be hanging lower..........

That is certainly all true. Any particular example is of course only anecdotal, but below left we have Fielder Jones 1901 (age 30), and right is Jones 1914 (age 43), at a slightly different angle. There is no perceptible difference and that is what I virtually always have seen thousands of times when comparing faces of the same man within the time span of ball playing age.

[TUM301]

This is very interesting info and fun to follow. The grid technology makes it even more so. Because of these recent threads been paying much closer attention to old photos and generally all items. Not to tech savy but would love to see a side by side shot of this Wags and the player pictured on the bottom right of the recently sold 1900 Cinn team schedule , Smith. Hope the recent purchaser doesn`t mind the included link and congrats on a great item.

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=195490

[Dave Grob]

The grids I provided to Mark for his work are very easy and inexpensive to make. All it requires is that you print out a grid or grids in any size you need to work with and then make a copy of it using a transparency made for use in copiers. These transparencies can be purchased at most office supply stores (make SURE they are the ones for use in printers/copiers).

Use of the grid system on a transparency allows for their use right on a computer screen or on top of the actual image or images you might be working with. Not only does it allow you to better focus on a single common point of reference, but it also facilitates your ability to assess vertical and horizontal alignment of various facial features in a comparative manner. Lastly, the grid system forces you to look at an image closely in its entirety, which helps to counter our natural tendency to either focus on the central area of the image or scan it in a sub-conscious “Top to bottom-Left to right” manner.

Without getting into painful detail, this simple grid system really represents an integral part of automated query, search, and compare functions found in modern facial recognition technologies. Prior to these functions being automated and supportable by searchable common data bases, use of grids like these and other similar tools is how intelligence folks did a lot of this work back in the day.

Dave Grob
Dave Grob1@aol.com

[ethicsprof]

very helpful.
many thanks.
best,
barry