Ron Keurajian's new book

[JimStinson]

Phone numbers are
1-800-HELP-NOW
1-800-435-7669
___________________
jim@stinsonsports.com

[JimStinson]

please keep in mind that is the job of any forger to make the signatures MATCH , its easy to do , for a good authenticator the signature itself (in most cases) is the LAST thing he looks at

[michael3322]

Jim,

This is all quite interesting. Thanks for sharing your insights. I just want to make sure that I understand what you are saying:

There are 3 examples of Joss' signature:

1) The one used in Ron's new book from Nap Lajoie's autograph album

2) The postcard recently auctioned at Old Judge and authenticated by Kevin Keating. Lew Lipset sent me the COA, which I posted on Net54 on this thread.

3) A third for which you have seen a photocopy of a legal document reported to have been obtained from his widow with writing that appears to match the other two.

Did I get that right?

Thanks.

Originally Posted by JimStinson

Well ....Yes and No, He and I mildly disagree at present as to the authenticity of all three of what I would consider "knowns"...legit signatures of Joss. The example I cite from the widow might not even exist anymore as it appears to be an old style xerox , so she might have just sent out the copy and not the original. Or maybe only had a copy herself.

Then you add the intangibles of the signature variations , and rarity which would (I hope) make anyone who trys to authenticate an Addie Joss signature be looking at more than just "slant, formation, pen pressure etc etc, blah blah" and be instead looking for ROCK SOLID provenance and the ability to back track what? Almost 100 years to practically "put the pen in his hand" Anything less would be negligent considering what his signature would sell for either via auction or outright sale.
_____________________________
jim@stinsonsports.com

[JimStinson]

Originally Posted by michael3322

Jim,

This is all quite interesting. Thanks for sharing your insights. I just want to make sure that I understand what you are saying:

There are 3 examples of Joss' signature:

1) The one used in Ron's new book from Nap Lajoie's autograph album

2) The postcard recently auctioned at Old Judge and authenticated by Kevin Keating. Lew Lipset sent me the COA, which I posted on Net54 on this thread.

3) A third for which you have seen a photocopy of a legal document reported to have been obtained from his widow with writing that appears to match the other two.

Did I get that right?

Thanks.

Correct (Kinda), The postcard authenticated by Kevin Keating matches exactly the sample from the legal document obtained from the widow. I believe both are genuine known examples. Both of those are slightly different from the example in Ron K's book (the one from the Lajoie album) which I also believe is authentic. Although carries some variation from the first two mentioned above.
_________________________
jim@stinsonsports.com

[JimStinson]

Also for clarification I don't think Kevin was authenticating or the auction was representing the notation at the top of the postcard (Joss, Adrian left standing) which likely is in a seperate hand and written later. The rest of the card in my opinion is dead on correct
_____________________
jim@stinsonsports.com

[markf31]

Originally Posted by insidethewrapper

Can someone post or email me a Dan Brouthers auto from the book ? thanks Mike

Why don’t you support Ron for all the hard work he put into the project and buy the book, rather than asking for someone to send you a scan from a book they themselves invested in and purchased. I highly recommend you just purchase the book. It’s an extremely valuable reference and tool for a collector, and easily worth the $49.95 from Amazon. IMO it’s one thing to ask for the opinions from board members or ask to see examples from their collection even, but it’s another to ask someone who purchased the book to help you out just so you don’t have to make the same investment.

[isaac2004]

Are there other books like this out on the market, with more examples maybe?

[tazdmb]

Sports Collectors Digest had a similar book out about 15? years ago. I thought it was pretty good, but based on Ron's book-the author still got duped on some toughies, like Rube. Here is the amazon link:

http://www.amazon.com/Baseball-Autog.../dp/0873411692

[dgo71]

Pretty sure Keating wrote a book similar to this but focused exclusively on Negro Leaguers.

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by dgo71

Pretty sure Keating wrote a book similar to this but focused exclusively on Negro Leaguers.

http://www.amazon.com/The-Negro-Leag.../dp/093062551X

[joed25]

I dropped $50 on the book. I'm not impressed at all. If you need help figuring out if a signature is real or not, the book doesnt really help. I was shocked what he left out by Mantle.

[isaac2004]

Originally Posted by joed25

I dropped $50 on the book. I'm not impressed at all. If you need help figuring out if a signature is real or not, the book doesnt really help. I was shocked what he left out by Mantle.

What were you expecting, letter by letter break down of every autograph? The book does a great job informing the collector and not giving any valuable information to the forger.

[joed25]

Originally Posted by isaac2004

What were you expecting, letter by letter break down of every autograph? The book does a great job informing the collector and not giving any valuable information to the forger.

I highly doubt Ron was worried about "giving valuable information to the forger". A book on authenticating autographs should be what it's supposed to be. Complete.

[old13man]

Is there exemplars of every HOF signature? What is the format of the book?

[jgmp123]

Ask yourself this...is there another book out that has this much depth? No. The book is great for what it is. Why spend so much time on Mantle when there are 299 other HOF'ers out there to cover. You can find Mantle info anywhere. Most collectors looking at this book are out for the info not easily accessible.

[joed25]

Originally Posted by jgmp123

Ask yourself this...is there another book out that has this much depth? No. The book is great for what it is. Why spend so much time on Mantle when there are 299 other HOF'ers out there to cover. You can find Mantle info anywhere. Most collectors looking at this book are out for the info not easily accessible.

Mantle was just an example with a number of points he could have mentioned to tell if it's real or not. Like he says with the Jonny Mize in the beginning of the book with the "I". There are many more names that I felt he did not do justice to. I got the feeling that many of the entries were sort of recycled. Many of the famous indicators you know about the common Hall of Famers like Mantle, DiMaggio... He surprisingly does not mention. I would also do color pictures for a $50 book. I enjoyed reading it. I love reading anything about the hobby. I was just dissapointed as it did not meet my expectations.

[David Atkatz]

Originally Posted by joed25

I dropped $50 on the book. I'm not impressed at all. If you need help figuring out if a signature is real or not, the book doesnt really help. I was shocked what he left out by Mantle.

Instead of complaining, why not help the poor guy out and give him a Mantle tutorial? I'm sure he could use your help.

[JimStinson]

The real "meat and potatoes" was in the begining of the book , basically how to "Buy smart" , do's and don'ts.
In order to cover all the bases on individual examples and signature analysis the book would have to be a thirty volume set.
By the way the book has been on the #1 best seller list on Amazon books in the memorabilia and collectibles catagory for going on 6 days.
________________________
jim@stinsonsports.com

[cubsfan-budman]

Originally Posted by David Atkatz

Instead of complaining, why not help the poor guy out and give him a Mantle tutorial? I'm sure he could use your help.

I don't think JoeD is saying that the dude doesn't know stuff about Mantle's autograph and how to determine it's authenticity. I think he's saying that the dude didn't do a very thorough job explaining what he knows in his $50 book.

I'll bet your heart skipped a beat when you thought you'd found some way to be a jerk to someone on the boards that knows less than you.

Nice job.

[Deertick]

Originally Posted by cubsfan-budman

I don't think JoeD is saying that the dude doesn't know stuff about Mantle's autograph and how to determine it's authenticity. I think he's saying that the dude didn't do a very thorough job explaining what he knows in his $50 book.

I'll bet your heart skipped a beat when you thought you'd found some way to be a jerk to someone on the boards that knows less than you.

Nice job.

Heart????

[chaddurbin]

Originally Posted by Hankphenom

http://www.amazon.com/The-Negro-Leag.../dp/093062551X

thanks for the link. got a used one for $4.25 shipped! need to get caught up on my negro league knowledge.