1939 Play Ball Williams Rookie High Grade

[jsfriedm]

Something I'm curious about and wondering if people here had thoughts: It seems to me that for the 1939 Play Ball Ted Williams, high grades don't bring the premiums they do for other key vintage rookie cards. For example, if I compare it to the 1951 Bowman Mays, both cards I follow pretty closely, I would estimate the typical values about so:

Williams Mays
1 ~3K ~3-4K
2 ~4-5K ~4-6K
3 ~5-6K ~5-8K
4 ~7-9K ~8-12K
5 ~8-11K ~12-18K
6 ~11-16K ~20-30K
7 ~16-25K ~40-60K
8 ~35-50K ~180-250K

So it looks like the prices are pretty even in grades 1-4, and then they start to diverge. Any ideas why Williams rookies in high grade don't command the same kind of premiums as other key vintage rookies?

[Leon]

I don't have an idea why the lower prices, maybe because his rookie is black and white?

I will hang with the middle grades....from the BST several years ago..

[Seven]

Originally Posted by jsfriedm

Something I'm curious about and wondering if people here had thoughts: It seems to me that for the 1939 Play Ball Ted Williams, high grades don't bring the premiums they do for other key vintage rookie cards. For example, if I compare it to the 1951 Bowman Mays, both cards I follow pretty closely, I would estimate the typical values about so:

Williams Mays
1 ~3K ~3-4K
2 ~4-5K ~4-6K
3 ~5-6K ~5-8K
4 ~7-9K ~8-12K
5 ~8-11K ~12-18K
6 ~11-16K ~20-30K
7 ~16-25K ~40-60K
8 ~35-50K ~180-250K

So it looks like the prices are pretty even in grades 1-4, and then they start to diverge. Any ideas why Williams rookies in high grade don't command the same kind of premiums as other key vintage rookies?

I think it's a combination of a few things. Williams was a prolific hitter, I don't think it's a stretch to say he was one of the three greatest the game has ever seen. He wasn't loved by the media though, and he never won a World Series. He was always overshadowed by DiMaggio early in his career, and then Mantle once the 50's rolled around. It does boggle my mind, that his cards, in general don't go for more. We are looking at a player who would've easily eclipsed 3000 hits and 600 home runs if it wasn't for his years serving our country.

That being said, the black and white coloring of his card could certainly be one reason, that Leon pointed out. But I also think it's because while it's technically considered his Rookie, there's a more visually appealing card of his from the same year. His Goudey Premium card, which I'll link below, is also black and white but looks leagues better than his Play Ball issue. If I had to own one of them, I'd take the premium every time.

[IMG]https://i.psacard.com/cardfacts/1939-goudey-premiums-ted-williams-vg-3-r303-94149.jpg?h=1000&_gl=1*uwjxvy*_gcl_au*MTg2NjY1NDIxNi4xNzY0ODYwMjg3* _ga*MTg2NDY4NTczNi4xNzY0ODYwMjg3*_ga_LBYZ0MN5NP*cz E3NjQ4NjAyODgkbzEkZzAkdDE3NjQ4NjAyODgkajYwJGwwJGgw[/IMG]

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

Williams didn't play in New York. That's a huge contributing factor to price. And for New York-centric fans, his playing for "the enemy" would have made it all the worse. Age-old grudges seemingly still affect prices. Not to mention that NY-themed collectors have always been more willing to whip out their bankrolls than Bostonians. Not said to inspire offense, but the numbers don't lie (and I was a Boston fan if it's any consolation! ).

Mays wasn't exactly known for having a cherubic, fan-friendly persona, either. You actually stood a better shot at having a positive interaction with Williams. But the NYC aspect makes a lot of people overlook less-than-pleasing characteristics.

[jsfriedm]

Thanks for the helpful thoughts. Just to add, I picked Mays as a comparison, but in percentage terms as condition improves, I could just as well have picked Aaron, or Clemente, or Koufax. It seems like Williams is the outlier in terms of his price vs. condition curve.

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

Originally Posted by jsfriedm

Thanks for the helpful thoughts. Just to add, I picked Mays as a comparison, but in percentage terms as condition improves, I could just as well have picked Aaron, or Clemente, or Koufax. It seems like Williams is the outlier in terms of his price vs. condition curve.

Mays was likely your most decent and level choice for comparison of the names mentioned. We all know why, so no need for me to go into detail!

[Seven]

Looking deeper into what we've spoken about already, and I really think it boils down to media coverage. Williams wasn't well liked, at the time, by the media. He was gruff and strictly business when it came to the game. His obsessive nature with hitting, is even further proof of that.

It is surprising though, because outside of his personality, you would think he would be idolized. He was a war hero, through and through. Imagine if someone like Mantle had Williams' military resume? Mantle's rookie would probably be even more exorbitant in terms of price.

[ahmanfan]

Less collectors of high grade 39 play ball sets than high grade 50s sets? One possibility

More demand for postwar rookie cards than pre war. Maybe another explanation.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Musashi]

Originally Posted by jsfriedm

Something I'm curious about and wondering if people here had thoughts: It seems to me that for the 1939 Play Ball Ted Williams, high grades don't bring the premiums they do for other key vintage rookie cards. For example, if I compare it to the 1951 Bowman Mays, both cards I follow pretty closely, I would estimate the typical values about so:

Williams Mays
1 ~3K ~3-4K
2 ~4-5K ~4-6K
3 ~5-6K ~5-8K
4 ~7-9K ~8-12K
5 ~8-11K ~12-18K
6 ~11-16K ~20-30K
7 ~16-25K ~40-60K
8 ~35-50K ~180-250K

So it looks like the prices are pretty even in grades 1-4, and then they start to diverge. Any ideas why Williams rookies in high grade don't command the same kind of premiums as other key vintage rookies?

I thought for a second the population report might have an answer - and it might help with part of the story as there are more Williams graded than Mays at 8 (88 for Williams, 79 for Mays) 9 (12 for Williams vs 8 for Mays) and 10 (1 for Williams, 0 for Mays). Couple those numbers with the fact that the PSA graded population of 1951 Bowman Mays is about 800 higher than the 1939 Playball Williams, the Williams is just easier to find in high grade. Unfortunately that doesn't explain why the values start diverging at 5.