Unpopular opinion on VCP an other "comp apps"

[campyfan39]

I would love to hear other opinions, and I am open to being wrong. That said, I think VCP and other comp sites and apps are worthless. I'm not sure how many times I have listed something for sale or tried to buy something on different platforms and have had people send me a screenshot of "comps." Whether higher or lower, I believe they are as obsolete as Beckett, who has 1952 Topps high numbers NM at $300! (Anyone who wants to sell for that, please contact me.)

Those apps track auction and eBay sales, not including the tax and shipping from eBay. What they do not do, and cannot do, is track the vast majority of sales. They don't have data on:

Collector-to-collector sales
Facebook sales
Instagram sales
TikTok sales
WhatNot sales
Card show sales
Net 54 and other forums' sales
Direct from the dealer's website sales

I buy and sell easily 90% of my cards on platforms that are not taken into account by those apps. So why are they like the gospel truth to so many?
Thanks for the discussion

[rand1com]

Disagree with you.

VCP reports actual sales. They cannot help it if a card has not traded hands in a few years in a certain grade.

If there are recent comps, then use them. If there are only outdated ones, ignore them.

Obviously, MOST major dealers use VCP when selling as a guide.

Most sophisticated collectors do as well.

The information VCP provides is as accurate as it can be based on sales. No more, no less.

[cgjackson222]

Obviously not all data can be collected by these service.

But they are still a valuable tool. I often just go on REA and Heritage and look at comp histories for those and other high volume auction houses, but I can see how it would be very useful to get a larger breadth of comps.

I have used VCP for one-off sales and purchases, and I think it is a good site.

[raulus]

I think it’s a question of whether you’d rather have some data or no data.

A lot of the sources you listed as not being reflected in the pricing apps are not available for a reason. And unless those sources suddenly decide to self-report data that we have reason to believe is accurate, we’ll get to continue to live without it.

So instead, we get to live with just a subset of transactions where the data is available, and hopefully mostly reliable, barring non-payers at auctions.

Whether it should really be relied upon as much as it is…that’s another question entirely, but tends to be a decision that we each get to make for ourselves.

But maybe this thread can be the beginning of the crusade to get people to rely less on the small slice of data that they do have available.

[4815162342]

Originally Posted by campyfan39

I would love to hear other opinions, and I am open to being wrong. That said, I think VCP and other comp sites and apps are worthless. I'm not sure how many times I have listed something for sale or tried to buy something on different platforms and have had people send me a screenshot of "comps." Whether higher or lower, I believe they are as obsolete as Beckett, who has 1952 Topps high numbers NM at $300! (Anyone who wants to sell for that, please contact me.)

Those apps track auction and eBay sales, not including the tax and shipping from eBay. What they do not do, and cannot do, is track the vast majority of sales. They don't have data on:

Collector-to-collector sales
Facebook sales
Instagram sales
TikTok sales
WhatNot sales
Card show sales
Net 54 and other forums' sales
Direct from the dealer's website sales

I buy and sell easily 90% of my cards on platforms that are not taken into account by those apps. So why are they like the gospel truth to so many?
Thanks for the discussion

A majority of the buyers and sellers in those non-public sales likely referenced VCP or similar apps. This is especially true for frequently traded post-war cards.

[campyfan39]

Thanks for the great discussion. That is what I hoped for!

My contention is that the vast majority of the sales are not reported, yet it is valid that many of those sales have used the recorded sales as a guide.

I have just found that most sales I have experienced, as a buyer and seller, do not reflect what VCP says. Money talks. In my experience, cash at a show on Sunday will get you a long way. I have also sold things for way less than the asking price on eBay and other platforms because I wanted to buy something else.

All that said, I need four more high numbers (reprints of Mickey and Jackie will do for now) and about 6-7 upgrades. I would be happy to send a list.

[Johnny630]

In the vintage card world it all depends on what the card looks like in grade.

Some 7’s look much better than other 7’s…the one that is centered will always carry a premium over one that is OC in same grade. Vcp is a good reference point for vintage but you have to compare similar looking eye appeal cards as more accurate a comp…it’s very nuanced.

[BobbyVCP]

We base all our data on what is verifiable with links and images of the sale....
It is just not possible to do that in FB, Tik Tok, etc...

I have been asked countless times that X sold for Y in a deal. I have no way of verifying anything. So am I just suppose to trust everyone to report it back to me and just post.

What would stop you from saying it cost your $10K and it reality cost you $3K and I post it. Now you have a comp and your willing to selling for 1/2 of VCP average...

Sorry but I would not put much trust in a model like you suggest.

[Musashi]

Comps in general, whether you took the time to research them yourself or got them through a service, are a useful tool to get a ballpark idea price points. While I agree it's annoying how some people use them as the final answer without taking into account variability within grades, age of comps, outlier results (high or low), etc - those are all faults in the user, not the tool.

[ajjohnsonsoxfan]

Originally Posted by BobbyVCP

We base all our data on what is verifiable with links and images of the sale....
It is just not possible to do that in FB, Tik Tok, etc...

I have been asked countless times that X sold for Y in a deal. I have no way of verifying anything. So am I just suppose to trust everyone to report it back to me and just post.

What would stop you from saying it cost your $10K and it reality cost you $3K and I post it. Now you have a comp and your willing to selling for 1/2 of VCP average...

Sorry but I would not put much trust in a model like you suggest.

HI Bobby,

Long time VCP subscriber! Does VCP capture ebay BIN prices? Also any new sources of data in the works you can share?

[steve B]

Originally Posted by BobbyVCP

We base all our data on what is verifiable with links and images of the sale....
It is just not possible to do that in FB, Tik Tok, etc...

I have been asked countless times that X sold for Y in a deal. I have no way of verifying anything. So am I just suppose to trust everyone to report it back to me and just post.

What would stop you from saying it cost your $10K and it reality cost you $3K and I post it. Now you have a comp and your willing to selling for 1/2 of VCP average...

Sorry but I would not put much trust in a model like you suggest.

That was mostly the model for price guides back in the day. They collected sales info, but from dealers they trusted. It was common to have at least a month of cards being available before it got into Beckett or any other guide. Then there was the month of complaining how the initial priced were way off.

Stuff like what you do may have flaws, but I think it's more reliable for more expensive cards

[Dougiefresh]

VCP is a good tool to use but it gets frustrating at times because many people use it as gospel and do not look at the differences between individual cards. Not all PSA 6's (or whatever grade) are created equal. It's so funny how everyone say's 'buy the card, not the grade' yet almost nobody really subscribes to that. This is also true when looking at older vs newer slabs. There is this automatic assumption that an old slab is worth less than a new slab meanwhile the card in the old slab could be outstanding yet value suffers just because of when it was graded. Last point, how would card values ever change is everyone just went off of VCP comps? At some point, a buyer or seller has to take a stand.