Hypothetical Question, could Ruth hit modern pitching

[kmac32]

Interesting question regarding Ruth. With many pitchers hitting 100 MPH on the radar guns and Sliders, curves, split finger fastballs, could Ruth do what he did against modern pitchers?

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by kmac32

Interesting question regarding Ruth. With many pitchers hitting 100 MPH on the radar guns and Sliders, curves, split finger fastballs, could Ruth do what he did against modern pitchers?

Ruth back then transported to now. LOL, not a chance. Ruth in his prime given a year to get used to modern pitching would be a decent hitter.

[Touch'EmAll]

Fun question to ponder. Take it a step further - could Ty Cobb hit modern pitching, or Hornsby, or Dimaggio, or Ted Williams ? You can't discredit all these top tier hitters throughout the years. So tough to compare era's.

[Peter_Spaeth]

What about Mays and Aaron? They're MUCH closer to Ruth (Mays started just 16 years after Ruth retired) than to today's players. Yet I think not many would ask the same question about them.

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by Touch'EmAll

Fun question to ponder. Take it a step further - could Ty Cobb hit modern pitching, or Hornsby, or Dimaggio, or Ted Williams ? You can't discredit all these top tier hitters throughout the years. So tough to compare era's.

I think guys with compact swings would fare better than guys with the big swings. So, I'd say Cobb and Williams would be fine, while Ruth and DiMaggio (and Musial) might have a tougher time with the fast, late-breaking stuff.

[ALBB]

Ruth in todays game - Daniel Vogelbach ? NO !

but the body shapes would be very similar

[Peter_Spaeth]

From Bill James.

https://www.billjamesonline.com/comp...tside_his_era/

[bandrus1]

Ruth, time traveled in his prime directly today couldn't make a AA roster

[Vintageclout]

Originally Posted by Touch'EmAll

Fun question to ponder. Take it a step further - could Ty Cobb hit modern pitching, or Hornsby, or Dimaggio, or Ted Williams ? You can't discredit all these top tier hitters throughout the years. So tough to compare era's.

Joe DiMaggio & Ted Williams would SPANK modern pitchers. Want the proof? They both wore out Bob Feller, who threw approx. upper 90s - 100 mph as well as having one of the filthiest “12 to 6” curveballs in MLB history. Joltin Joe batted .342 lifetime against Feller (17 points higher than his lifetime batting average) in 193 at bats with 11 home runs. Meanwhile, Williams batted .344 lifetime against Feller (equal to his career average) in 154 at bats with 10 homers and an incredible 1.135 OPS! DiMaggio was way ahead of his time, utilizing a virtually “no stride” swing resulting in him rarely missing the baseball (evident by him only striking out only 369 times in 13 seasons). Regarding Williams, his superior vision was literally off the eye charts, and it is no coincidence that his uncanny eyesight led to Ted being one of America’s finest fighter pilots in the Korean War.

One must also keep in mind that pre-1950 players utilized much heavier bats (36+ ounces in many instances). Modern players use lighter bats (roughly 32-34 ounces) since the lighter bat results in significantly more bat speed. That said, imagine putting a 33/34 ounce bat in Babe Ruth’s hands versus the typical 36-44 ounce bats he used throughout his career! If you look at early to mid 1920s film of Ruth’s swing, he swung that 40+ ounces bat like it was a toothpick - utilizing incredible hip speed and torque to whip that lumber around like no one I’ve ever seen. His athleticism and strength was uncanny, and had he used a bat weighing 6-8 ounces LESS, that would have easily assisted him in handling the faster velocity.

One final critical point is that pre-1950 players never had the advantage of high-tech training programs that have ably assisted many pitchers reaching high 90s to 100+!mph. Can you imagine Ruth, Gehrig, Foxx, DiMaggio, Williams, etc. reaping the benefits of this advanced training that would easily put them above the levels of most modern day players!

[jingram058]

Originally Posted by kmac32

Interesting question regarding Ruth. With many pitchers hitting 100 MPH on the radar guns and Sliders, curves, split finger fastballs, could Ruth do what he did against modern pitchers?

Hypothetical answer, yes. You can come up with all the stats and metrics and analytics and computer simulations and yada yada yada you want to. I don't care. The answer is yes, he could. So could Gehrig, Foxx, and all the others.

I'm sure my answer isn't in favor on this forum, and will no doubt be ignored. Oh well, sucks to be me, I guess.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by jingram058

Hypothetical answer, yes. You can come up with all the stats and metrics and analytics and computer simulations and yada yada yada you want to. I don't care. The answer is yes, he could. So could Gehrig, Foxx, and all the others.

I'm sure my answer isn't in favor on this forum, and will no doubt be ignored. Oh well, sucks to be me, I guess.

I think more people here, with the forum's heavy nostalgia bias, probably agree with you than disagree. Now go to Blowout, different world.

[Snowman]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I think more people here, with the forum's heavy nostalgia bias, probably agree with you than disagree. Now go to Blowout, different world.

This forum leans romantic. I can appreciate that, but as a scientist making retrodictions about the likelihood of X or Y having occurred in the past, I have to disregard the romanticism.

[oldjudge]

No question in my mind that he could. A better question is could today's prima donnas, lacking in the fundamentals of the game, have played in Ruth's era.

[todeen]

I hate these debates. It completely devalues intelligence of human beings. It devalues pure talent. It devalues competitive drive. We are talking about the .00001 of humans who have the triple combo of talent, intelligence, and drive to rise to the top to play MLB. Of course Babe Ruth could play today. He would have coaches and trainers who would optimize his swing. He could be Miguel Cabrera. He could be Adam Dunn. Or he could have been Barry Bonds - the most feared hitter of my lifetime. And Mike Trout could certainly play in 1920. Would some of the other role players die out in the transitions? Yes, sure, because their skills would not be valued under different conditions. But others would thrive under different conditions and different opportunities as they see their skills become more valued. That's just the way it is. We can't foresee how every player transitions. But the stars are most likely to remain stars because they have that special something that separates them as a generational talent.

Sent from my SM-G9900 using Tapatalk

[glchen]

I think this same argument could be made for any hitter who has not played in the last 30+ years. I doubt hitters like Mantle, Aaron or Mays would have the same level of success in the modern era either.

I would see Ruth similar to an upgraded Kyle Schwarber. I would think he could still adjust to the pitching, but he would dominate like he did in his era. He would probably be something like a .260 hitter averaging around 40 home runs a year.

[Delray Vintage]

If you transported Ruth in the shape he kept himself he might have trouble. If Ruth landed in 2023 and adopted modern diet and training he would probably do fine. If the 1927 Yankees played a modern team they probably would have issues dealing with all the hard throwers today. So hard to take the best players 100 years ago and compare with modern players. Athletes today are just in better shape and grew up with modern medicine and training. Look at it the other way. Transport the 2023 Braves back 100 years ago with lousy gloves, balls, and minimal training and maybe they would not be very good.

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by Delray Vintage

If you transported Ruth in the shape he kept himself he might have trouble. If Ruth landed in 2023 and adopted modern diet and training he would probably do fine. If the 1927 Yankees played a modern team they probably would have issues dealing with all the hard throwers today. So hard to take the best players 100 years ago and compare with modern players. Athletes today are just in better shape and grew up with modern medicine and training. Look at it the other way. Transport the 2023 Braves back 100 years ago with lousy gloves, balls, and minimal training and maybe they would not be very good.

Good point. Transport the modern players back to 1927 and they would struggle with things like scuffed balls, metal spikes, taunting, shoulder checks, smaller bases, chin music, spitters, bad diet, long train rides, doing their own laundry, working in the off season, etc. I do think modern scrapper guys would do well back then cuz that's the style of play.
And just for perspective, Ty Cobb held 90+ major league records when he retired, 90+!, some of which still stand today. He was not only better than all of his peers but he was better than most of the players that followed him by a wide margin.
Imagine a player retiring today with 90 MLB records.
And let's invite the modern day players to throw a silver dollar across the Rappahannock River, Walter Johnson did it at age 48 and threw it 430 feet, 23 yards farther than a modern day football field. Or let's get modern day catchers out to the Washington Monument to test their skill at catching a ball dropped from 555 feet like Gabby Street.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Did George Washington throw in the 90s?

[steve B]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Did George Washington throw in the 90s?

Yes, but only with a dollar, not a rounders ball.

[steve B]

I think physically and with his reactions Ruth and most great hitters would still be great hitters.

What I think would cause them trouble hitting today and require a lot of adjustment is how batters and pitchers are analyzed. Over 20 years ago some teams were exchanging annotated game film of every at bat. I'm fairly sure that it's now all teams.

Using that, they were able to tell things like what pitch in what location a batter had trouble with. Or what pitch a pitcher was most likely to throw in a certain situation. And use it to spot if a pitcher was tipping his pitches and how.

If any of the greats had a weakness it would probably be found. Like in the article saying Ruth preferred a low outside pitch. Knowing that, a pitcher could throw him only pitches that were inside or up in the zone.

Mostly because of this, I don't think they would become dominant hitters, but still great.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Casey2296

Good point. Transport the modern players back to 1927 and they would struggle with things like scuffed balls, metal spikes, taunting, shoulder checks, smaller bases, chin music, spitters, bad diet, long train rides, doing their own laundry, working in the off season, etc. I do think modern scrapper guys would do well back then cuz that's the style of play.
And just for perspective, Ty Cobb held 90+ major league records when he retired, 90+!, some of which still stand today. He was not only better than all of his peers but he was better than most of the players that followed him by a wide margin.
Imagine a player retiring today with 90 MLB records.
And let's invite the modern day players to throw a silver dollar across the Rappahannock River, Walter Johnson did it at age 48 and threw it 430 feet, 23 yards farther than a modern day football field. Or let's get modern day catchers out to the Washington Monument to test their skill at catching a ball dropped from 555 feet like Gabby Street.

If you like those type of cool stories I highly recommend finding an old copy of the book More Strange but true Baseball stories. It is full of stories like the Walter Johnson and Gabby Street(pic on front cover) ones.

[jakebeckleyoldeagleeye]

Originally Posted by bnorth

If you like those type of cool stories I highly recommend finding an old copy of the book More Strange but true Baseball stories. It is full of stories like the Walter Johnson and Gabby Street(pic on front cover) ones.

Would Harper have a beard in his coal mine job to make ends meet back in the 20's?

[EddieP]

I think Ruth would have a been very successful hitter in today’s era. Back in 1920 he was a test subject by psychologists at Columbia. He scored superior in areas that can’t really be trained or taught. The findings were published by Popular Science Oct 1920. Below is the article:
The game was over. Babe, who had made one of his famous drives that day, was tired and wanted to go home. “Not tonight, Babe,” I said. “Tonight you go to college with me. You’re going to take scientific tests which will reveal your secret.”

“Who wants to know it?” asked Babe.

“I want to know it,” I replied, “and so do several hundred thousand fans. We want to know why it is that one man has achieved a unique batting skill like yours — just why you can slam the ball as nobody else in the world can.”

So away we went. Babe in his baseball uniform, not home to his armchair, but out to Columbia University to take his first college examination.

Babe went at the test with the zeal of a schoolboy, and the tests revealed why his rise to fame followed suddenly after years of playing during which he was known as an erratic although a powerful hitter. How he abruptly gained his unparalleled skill has been one of baseball’s mysteries.

Albert Johanson, M.A., and Joseph Holmes, M.A., of the research laboratory of Columbia University’s psychological department, who, in all probability, never saw Ruth hit a baseball, and who neither know or care if his batting average is .007 or .450, are .500 hitters in the psychology game. They led Babe Ruth into the great laboratory of the university, figuratively took him apart, watched the wheels go round; analyzed his brain, his eye, his ear, his muscles; studied how these worked together; reassembled him, and announced the exact reasons for his supremacy as a batter and a ball-player.

Baseball employs scores of scouts to explore the country and discover baseball talent. These scouts are known as “Ivory hunters,” and if baseball-club owners take the hint from the Ruth experiments, they can organize a clinic, submit candidates to the comprehensive tests undergone by Ruth, and discover whether or not other Ruths exist. By these tests it would be possible for the club owners to discover — during the winter, perhaps — whether the ball-players are liable to be good, bad, or mediocre; and, to carry the [p. 20] practical results of the experiments to the limit, then may be able to eliminate the possibility, or probability, of some player “pulling a boner” in mid-season by discovering, before the season starts, how liable he is to do so.

The scientific ivory hunters of Columbia University discovered that the secret of Babe Ruth’s batting, reduced to non-scientific terms, is that his eyes and ears function more rapidly than those of other players; that his brain records sensations more quickly and transmits its orders to the muscles much faster than does that of the average man. The tests proved that the coordination of eye, brain, nerve system, and muscle is practically perfect, and that the reason he did not acquire his great batting power before the sudden burst at the beginning of the baseball season of 1920, was because, prior to that time, pitching and studying batters disturbed his almost perfect coordination.

**Ruth the Superman

**The tests revealed the fact that Ruth is 90 per cent efficient compared with a human average of 60 per cent.

That his eyes are about 12 per cent faster than those of the average human being.

That his ears function at least 10 per cent faster than those of the ordinary man. That his nerves are steadier than those of 499 out of 500 persons.

That in attention and quickness of perception he rated one and a half times above the human average.

That in intelligence, as demonstrated by the quickness and accuracy of understanding, he is approximately 10 per cent above normal.

It must not be forgotten that the night on which the tests were made was an extremely warm one, and that in the afternoon he had played a hard, exhausting game of baseball before a large crowd, in the course of which he had made one of those home-run hits which we at Columbia were so eager to understand and account for. Under such circumstances, one would think that some signs of nerve exhaustion would be revealed. The instigation lasted more than three hours, during which Ruth stood for most of the time, walked up and down stairs five times, and underwent the tests in a close warm room. At the end of that time I was tired and nervous, and, although Ruth showed no symptoms of weariness, it is probable that under more favorable conditions his showing would have been even better.

The tests used were ones that primarily test motor functions and give a measure of the integrity of the psychophysical organism. Babe Ruth was posed first in an apparatus created to determine the strength, quickness, and approximate power of the swing of his bat against his ball. A plane covered with electrically charges wires, strung horizontally, was placed behind him and a ball was hung over the theoretical plate, so that it could be suspended at any desired height.

I learned something then which, perhaps, will interest the American League pitchers more than it will the scientists. This was that the ball Ruth likes best to hit, and can hit hardest, is a low ball pitched just above his knees on the outside corner of the plate. The scientists did not consider this of extreme importance in their calculations, but the pitchers will probably find it of great scientific interest.

**Science Discovers the Secret

**The ball was adjusted at the right height, and, taking up a bat that was electrically wired, Ruth was told to get into position and to swing his bat exactly as if striking the ball for a home run, to make the end of it touch one of the transverse wires on the plate behind him, then swing it through its natural arc and hit the ball lightly. The bat, weighing fifty-four ounces (exactly the weight of the bats Ruth uses on the diamond), was swung as directed, touched the ball, and the secret of his power — or, rather, the amount of force with which the strikes the ball — was calculated. At least, the basis of the problem was secured: The bat, weighing fifty-four ounces, swinging at a rate of 110 feet a second, hits a ball travelling at the rate of, say, sixty feet a second, the ball weighing four and a quarter ounces, and striking the bat at a point four inches from the end. How far will it travel? There are other elements [p. 21] entering into the problem, such as the resilience of the ball, the “English” placed on it by the pitcher’s hand, and a few minor details. But the answer, as proved by the measurements, is somewhere between 450 and 500 feet. This problem cannot be worked down to exact figures because of the unknown quantities.

The experimenters, however, were not so much interested in the problem in physics as they were in the problems in psychology. The thing they wanted to know was what made Ruth superior to all other ball-players in hitting power, rather than to measure that power.

Babe Could Beat His own Record!

Before proceeding to the psychological tests, however, we tried another in physics to satisfy my curiosity. A harness composed of rubber tubing was strapped around Ruth’s chest and shoulders and attached by hollow tubes to a recording cylinder. By this means his breathing was recorded on a revolving disk. He was then placed in position to bat, an imaginary pitcher pitched an imaginary ball, and he went through the motions of hitting a home run. The test proved that, as a ball is pitched to him, Babe draws in his breath sharply as he makes the back-swing with his bat, and really “holds his breath” or suspends the operation of his breathing until after the ball is hit. But for that fact, he would hit the ball much harder and more effectively than he now does. It has been discovered that the act of drawing in the breath and holding it results in a sharp tension of the muscles and a consequent loss of striking power. If Ruth expelled his breath before striking the ball, the muscles would not become tense and his swing would have greater strength and rhythm.

The first test to discover the efficiency of his psychophysical organism was one designed to try his coordination; a simple little test. The scientists set up a triangular board, looking some thing like a ouija-board, with a small round hole at each angle. At the bottom of each hole was an electrified plate that registered every time it was touched. Ruth was presented with a little instrument that looked like a doll-sized curling iron, the end of which just fitted into the holes. Then he was told to take the instrument in his right hand and jab it into the holes successively, as often as he could in one minute, going around the board from left to right.

He grew interested at once. Here was something at which he could play. The professor “shushed” me, fearing that I would disturb Ruth or distract his attention as he started around the board, jabbing the curling-iron into the holes with great rapidity. He would put it into the holes twelve to sixteen times so perfectly that the instrument barely touched the sides. Then he would lose control and touch the sides, slowing down. Only twice did he pass the hole without getting the end of the iron into it. With his right hand he made a score of 122. Not unnaturally, his wrist was tired and Babe shook it and grinned ruefully.

Then he tried it with his left hand, scored 132 with it, proving himself a bit more left- than right-handed — at least in some activities. The significance of the experiment, however, lies in the fact that the average of hundreds of persons who have taken that test is 82 to the minute, which shows how much swifter in the coordination of hand, brain, and eye Ruth is than the average.

**Every Test but Another Triumph

**In a sequel to this test that followed, Babe tapped an electrified plate with an electrically charged stylus with the speed of a drum-roll, scoring 193 taps per minute with his right hand and 176 with his left hand. The average score for right-handed persons undergoing this wrist-wracking experiment is 180, and, while there is no data covering right-handed persons using the left hand, it is certain that Ruth’s record is much above the average, as he is highly efficient with the left hand.

But steadiness must accompany speed and so they tested the home-run king for his steadiness of nerve and muscle by having [p. 110] him thrust the useful little curling-iron stylus in different-sized holes pierced through an electrified plate which registered contacts between the stylus and the side of the hole. These measured respectively sixteen, eleven, nine, eight, and seven sixty-fourths of an inch; small enough, but not too small for Babe, for he made a score that showed him better than 499 persons out of 500.

The tests that interested me most were those to determine how quickly Ruth’s eye acts and how quickly its signals are flashed through the brain to the muscles. Showing an amazingly quick reaction time, they interpreted what happens on the ball-field when the stands rock under the cheering that greets another of Ruth’s smashes to the fence, proved an eye so quick that it sees the ball make an erratic curve and guides the bat to follow.

The scientists discovered exactly how quickly Ruth’s eye functions by placing him in a dark cabinet, setting into operation a series of rapidly flashing bulbs and listening to the tick of an electric key by which he acknowledged the flashes.

The average man responds to the stimulus of the light in 180 one thousandths of a second. Babe Ruth needs only 160 one thousandths of a second. There is the same significance in the fact that Babe’s response to the stimulus of sound comes 140 one thousandths of a second as against the averages man’s 150 thousandths.

Human beings differ very slightly in these sight and sound tests, or rather the fractions are so small that they seem inexpressive; yet a difference of 20 or 10 one thousandths of a second indicates a superiority of the highest importance.

Translate the findings of the sight test into baseball if you want to see what they mean in Babe Ruth’s case. They mean that a pitcher must throw a ball 20 one thousandths of a second faster to “fool” Babe than to “fool” the average person.

If the results of these tests at Columbia are a revelation to us, who know Ruth as a fast thinking player, they must be infinitely more amazing to the person who only comes into contact with the big fellow off the diamond and finds him unresponsive and even slow when some non-professional topic in under discussion.

The scientific “ivory hunters” up at Columbia demonstrated that Babe Ruth would have been the “home-run king” in almost any line of activity he chose to follow; that his brain would have won equal success for him had he drilled it for as long a time on some line entirely foreign to the national game. They did it, just as they proved his speed and his steadiness — by simple laboratory tests.

For instance, they had an apparatus with a sort of a camera shutter arrangement that opened, winked, and closed at any desired speed. Cards with letters of the alphabet on them were placed behind this shutter and exposed to view for one fifty-thousandth of a second. Ruth read them as they flashed into view, calling almost instantly the units of groups of three, four, five, and six letters. With eight shown he got the first six, and was uncertain of the others. The average person can see four and one half letters on the same test.

When cards marked with black dots were used, Ruth was even faster. He called up the number of dots on every card up to twelve without one mistake, The average person can see eight.

To test him for quickness of perception and understanding, he was given a card showing five different symbols — a star, a cross, and three other shapes — many times repeated, and was told to select a number — one, two, three, four, or five — for each symbol, then to mark the selected number under each one as rapidly as he could go over the card. He scored 103 hits on that test, which his the average of all who have tried it. But when given a card covered with printed matter and told to cross out all the a’s, he made a score of sixty, which is one and a half times the average.

The secret of Babe Ruth’s ability to hit is clearly revealed in these tests, His eye, his ear, his brain, his nerves all function more rapidly than do those of the average person. Further the coordination between eye, ear, brain, and muscle is much nearer perfection than that of the normal healthy man.

The scientific “ivory hunters” dissecting the “home-run king” discovered brain instead of bone, and showed how little mere luck, or even mere hitting strength, has to do with Ruth’s phenomenal record.

[EddieP]

Double post

[todeen]

Originally Posted by Snowman

I forgot to address the comments earlier about record breaking being more a function of technology and environmental factors than evolutionary factors. This is certainly true as well, though the degree to which this applies varies greatly by sport.

Here's an interesting TED talk on the topic

https://youtu.be/8COaMKbNrX0?si=Dzvz-03MvT086MUS

Originally Posted by eliotdeutsch

Love this Ted talk on the subject. Just posted it and saw you had as well.

My takeaway from watching this TedTalk is that it is likely many of the players of baseball in 1910s would be pushed into other sports due to their body types. If we really think about it, it is amazing Billy Hamilton and Elly de la Cruz are baseball players rather than running for a track team at some university. In 1920, professional baseball was the game of choice. However, today players opt out of baseball to pursue Football -- like Kyler Murray, Russell Wilson, and Tom Brady. If Ruth, Foxx, Gehrig, and some of the other two sport athletes from 1920 were transplanted today would they do the same thing?

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by kmac32

Interesting question regarding Ruth. With many pitchers hitting 100 MPH on the radar guns and Sliders, curves, split finger fastballs, could Ruth do what he
did against modern pitchers?

Babe Ruth....(and Mickey Mantle) were both ambi-dexterous. I have no-doubt that they could "handle" 90+ MPH pitching and be as effective as they were when
they were playing the game.



TED Z

T206 Reference
.

[packs]

I look at a guy like Noah Syndergaard. He's huge and he throws super hard. But he can't actually pitch and that's why he's had such limited success (along with injuries from trying to throw hard).

I just don't see why throwing hard today means anything. It clearly isn't hard to hit a 100 MPH fastball. What is hard is hitting against someone who knows how to pitch, and that person can come from any era.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by packs

I look at a guy like Noah Syndergaard. He's huge and he throws super hard. But he can't actually pitch and that's why he's had such limited success (along with injuries from trying to throw hard).

I just don't see why throwing hard today means anything. It clearly isn't hard to hit a 100 MPH fastball. What is hard is hitting against someone who knows how to pitch, and that person can come from any era.

The bold part is easily the most ridiculous thing posted in this thread.

They have done tests for everything. From 2015-2017 they tested data from MLB hitters on this exact subject. Hitters that bat 300 against a 90mph fast ball were only hitting 200 against a 100mph fastball.

[packs]

Originally Posted by bnorth

The bold part is easily the most ridiculous thing posted in this thread.

They have done tests for everything. From 2015-2017 they tested data from MLB hitters on this exact subject. Hitters that bat 300 against a 90mph fast ball were only hitting 200 against a 100mph fastball.

Why is it ridiculous? I can rattle off dozens of pitchers in the modern era who didn't throw hard but experienced a lot of success. Guys like Jamie Moyer, Tim Wakefield, Roy Halladay, Andy Pettitte and on and on and on.

It is not hard to hit a 100 MPH fastball. There are a million guys in the minors throwing 100 and they'll never pitch in the major leagues. There are equally as many pitchers in the majors throwing 100 with unsustainable ERAs that will mean their careers are over in a few seasons.

These people can't pitch and that's their problem. They can only throw 100 MPH.

[Carter08]

Mike Trout pretty clearly seems to think the heat is making life harder as a batter. I get it that heat without skill doesn’t amount to much but heat with skill seems harder to hit than lower heat with the same skill. Not sure you can argue around that.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jv5Yo6C8ao4

[jayshum]

Originally Posted by packs

Why is it ridiculous? I can rattle off dozens of pitchers in the modern era who didn't throw hard but experienced a lot of success. Guys like Jamie Moyer, Tim Wakefield, Roy Halladay, Andy Pettitte and on and on and on.

It is not hard to hit a 100 MPH fastball. There are a million guys in the minors throwing 100 and they'll never pitch in the major leagues. There are equally as many pitchers in the majors throwing 100 with unsustainable ERAs that will mean their careers are over in a few seasons.

These people can't pitch and that's their problem. They can only throw 100 MPH.

While being able to throw 100+ doesn't necessarily make you a good pitcher, saying it's not hard to hit a 100 MPH pitch seems like a stretch to me.

From Baseball-reference.com, career batting average against for Jamie Moyer is .268 and for Aroldis Chapman it's .165.

[BobbyStrawberry]

Originally Posted by packs

It clearly isn't hard to hit a 100 MPH fastball.

[packs]

For a major league player it’s almost a requirement. It’s not a select skill among professional baseball players. Is it?

[BobbyStrawberry]

Originally Posted by packs

For a major league player it’s almost a requirement. It’s not a select skill among professional baseball players. Is it?

Looks like only three pitchers averaged 99.5 mph + on their fastball this season:

Jhoan Duran - opponents hit .118 against his fastball
Jordan Hicks - opponents hit .229 against his fastball
Felix Bautista - opponents hit .144 against his fastball

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by packs

I look at a guy like Noah Syndergaard. He's huge and he throws super hard. But he can't actually pitch and that's why he's had such limited success (along with injuries from trying to throw hard).

I just don't see why throwing hard today means anything. It clearly isn't hard to hit a 100 MPH fastball. What is hard is hitting against someone who knows how to pitch, and that person can come from any era.

It's a hell of a lot harder to hit a 100 mph fastball on the outside corner than a 90 mph one. Your post is not looking at the full context. The discussion of increased velocity over time assumes pitchers are still as good at locating. If the only way to hit 100 was to just send one with no movement down the middle of the plate, what you say might be logical.

[packs]

But a lot of pitchers do just that. For every Jhoan Duran there are ten Kyle Farnsworths.

[jingram058]

Name someone who is Ruth-like today. There's the problem. You can't.