Let's Re-Visit The Great Debate

[jingram058]

I pulled an old book from the shelf, entitled, "The World Series - A Complete Pictorial History", by John Devaney and Burt Goldblatt. For 1932, the caption is "The Babe Calls His Last Shot".

Zack Taylor: I saw the Babe call his shot

Zack Taylor was a catcher with Chicago, Brooklyn and Boston. At an Oldtimers' Game in St. Petersburg, Fla., three weeks before his death, he said: "They say the Babe didn't really call that home run but don't you believe it because I was sitting on the Cub bench and I saw it happen. Charley Root always denied it but what happened was this: Charley had a habit of turning around to touch the rosin bag after he'd thrown a strike, and he had his back turned to the Babe and he didn't see Babe point to the fence. There was a lot more bench jockeying in those days, you know, than there is today. I don't know why...maybe because the dugouts are farther apart. The Cubs were saying awful things to Babe. He'd called us cheapskates because we hadn't cut in Koenig and that was embarrassing to me because I roomed with Mark. Our bench was yelling just awful things, I don't even want to talk about them...about Babe's personal life. Anyway, he turned to us. He put up two fingers. Two strikes. Then he put up one finger, saying I got one left. And then he pointed to direct centerfield. He hit that pitch right into what must have been a 60-mile-an-hour wind coming off that lake and I don't know how he did it."

So, is this just an embellished memory, or did Zack Taylor really see what he says? Does it really even matter? Hitting a home run in a situation like that is crazy.

The attached grainy still photo is from Wikipedia. It shows Root with his back turned, and Ruth pointing, all as Zack Taylor said. The ball went some 440 feet, against a stiff wind off the lake.

[jingram058]

"What do you think of the nerve of that big monkey? Imagine the guy calling his shot and getting away with it." – Lou Gehrig

[BabyRuth]

From the photo evidene something obviously was happening that fateful day, and for me, it was the Babe calling his shot!!!
Every thread needs a card!!!

[Exhibitman]

Heckuva card.

i would like to think that Ruth called it. I have no idea. The footage I've seen is interesting but not definitive.

Ruth card:

[JollyElm]

The problem is there may or may not be enough context to the whole situation. Any still picture showing him pointing is compelling, however if you watch the small bits of video in existence, The Babe didn't stop what he was doing and point definitively and directly to the center field stands (as is always implied). His arm/hand was waving around seemingly pointing at the other team, and pretty significantly in my mind, it wasn't pointing 'high' enough to be majestically directing attention to way out in center field. (And yes, I want the 'called shot' to actually be true, but it's a tough sell, unfortunately.)

Check out this short video of the event:
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...6FORM%3DHDRSC4

[Bigdaddy]

I had written Joe Sewell, HOFer and teammate of the Babe's on that 1932 WS team, a letter back in the late 1980s asking him if the Babe called his shot. Joe replied back that the Babe did indeed point to CF before his dinger.

Good enough for me.

If I can dig it out, I'll post a scan.

[Touch'EmAll]

We need good stuff to believe. The called shot is good stuff. I believe.

[raulus]

Does it matter anymore whether he did or didn’t actually do it?

It just seems like the myth and the legend has taken over the public consciousness to the point where whether it ever really happened is irrelevant.

[Peter_Spaeth]

In 1942, during the making of The Pride of the Yankees, Babe Herman (who was at that time a teammate of Root with the minor league Hollywood Stars) was on the movie set as a double for both Ruth (who played himself in most scenes) and Gary Cooper (who played Lou Gehrig). Herman re-introduced Root and Ruth on set and the following exchange (later recounted by Herman to baseball historian Donald Honig) took place:

Root: "You never pointed out to center field before you hit that ball off me, did you?"
Ruth: "I know I didn't, but it made a hell of a story, didn't it?"

[G1911]

Originally Posted by raulus

Does it matter anymore whether he did or didn’t actually do it?

It just seems like the myth and the legend has taken over the public consciousness to the point where whether it ever really happened is irrelevant.

The truth is always relevant to the subject, sir.

Whether a sports game is is another story…

Documentary evidence is ambiguous, witness testimony is not in accord with each other. It’s probably not true, the story told is too clean and perfectly polished, but it’s a good story and in character.

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by Bigdaddy

I had written Joe Sewell, HOFer and teammate of the Babe's on that 1932 WS team, a letter back in the late 1980s asking him if the Babe called his shot. Joe replied back that the Babe did indeed point to CF before his dinger.

With which finger

[JollyElm]

And a card...

1932a.jpg

[molenick]

I don't recall how Burns addressed the Doubleday issue, and I didn't mean to start another "great debate", but the factuality of the letter was discredited well before the Burns documentary. Even the Hall of Fame (whose site was selected because of the connection to the story) acknowledges it is a myth.

I was just giving it as an example of a legend living on long past its refutation.

[BabyRuth]

The rivals meet again........................

[Rad_Hazard]

Originally Posted by molenick

I don't recall how Burns addressed the Doubleday issue, and I didn't mean to start another "great debate", but the factuality of the letter was discredited well before the Burns documentary. Even the Hall of Fame (whose site was selected because of the connection to the story) acknowledges it is a myth.

I was just giving it as an example of a legend living on long past its refutation.

After having finally visited Cooperstown, I can say with great authority () that I really am not a fan of the Doubleday narrative. I really wish the HOF was somewhere more accessible. Speaking as someone who was born, raised, and still lives in Montana, Cooperstown is in the middle of nowhere and not at all easy to access.

[Peter_Spaeth]

And we still have Doubleday Field.

[BabyRuth]

The rivals meet for a second time......................

[Eric72]

Originally Posted by molenick

I don't recall how Burns addressed the Doubleday issue, and I didn't mean to start another "great debate", but the factuality of the letter was discredited well before the Burns documentary. Even the Hall of Fame (whose site was selected because of the connection to the story) acknowledges it is a myth.

I was just giving it as an example of a legend living on long past its refutation.

Burns acknowledged, within the documentary, that the letter was not accurate. I was just trying to shed light on what may have colored the Mills Commission's opinion on the matter.

So, no great debate with me. We were saying the same thing. When I saw that you said it much better, I (more or less) deleted my post; it was redundant...and it was also redundant.