Shill bid or coincidence?

[cammb]

I am putting together an SGC common graded 1963 topps set. I was following a common graded card for six days in a seven day auction. There were no bids. The auction was going to end 22hrs. I put in a bid and three minutes later was outbid!. The auction ended with that bid. What do you think?

[Leon]

Originally Posted by cammb

I am putting together an SGC common graded 1963 topps set. I was following a common graded card for six days in a seven day auction. There were no bids. The auction was going to end 22hrs. I put in a bid and three minutes later was outbid!. The auction ended with that bid. What do you think?

I think it sounds sketchy.
.

[cammb]

Originally Posted by leon

i think it sounds sketchy.
.

me too!!!!!

[Leon]

Originally Posted by cammb

me too!!!!!

Last time I had that kind of experience I had a really bad feeling in my gut. A year or so later I found out I was shill bid. And I think I was shill bid 2-3x in that auction. It was crazy what happened. That might be the same way you felt when it happened. It's like WTF?? This was back in the Legendary or Mastro era...so, a while back. I had even told authorities about it back then.
.

[notfast]

Originally Posted by cammb

I am putting together an SGC common graded 1963 topps set. I was following a common graded card for six days in a seven day auction. There were no bids. The auction was going to end 22hrs. I put in a bid and three minutes later was outbid!. The auction ended with that bid. What do you think?

Not nearly enough information to formulate an opinion.

[cammb]

Originally Posted by notfast

Not nearly enough information to formulate an opinion.

What do you need to know?

[Rich Falvo]

Possibly shady, but I will say that if I am watching an auction that has no bids, then I’m in no hurry to bid until close to the end unless someone else bids first.

[perezfan]

Usually you can go with your gut feeling. I’ve been shilled enough to know. Now, I love sticking the shill bidder with the high bid almost as much as winning the item I’m bidding on.

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by cammb

I am putting together an SGC common graded 1963 topps set. I was following a common graded card for six days in a seven day auction. There were no bids. The auction was going to end 22hrs. I put in a bid and three minutes later was outbid!. The auction ended with that bid. What do you think?

If it was a shill bid it means:
1. They lose out on a sale and pay fees too.
2. It will likely be relisted fairly soon.

[nolemmings]

Please help me to understand. How would a seller know that a bid was placed on his item unless he was monitoring the auction at the time? Does he receive an email or other instant notification that there's been a bid? Can he or his shill automate a bid to be placed for $x as soon as there's been a bid by someone else?

I realize that the timing of the OP's transaction seems suspicious, but if there's a seller out there with multiple auction items what are the chances he is watching this item so closely 22 hours before the end? If he is going to shill is the idea that the victim will still be online and be motivated to bid again? Why not wait an hour or two--is the theory that the victim will be offline by then and may not think to go back and check? I suppose it's just as strange for a legitimate bidder to be looking in at the auction at that same time-- are users who put something on the watch list notified as soon as bids are placed on that item, so as to alert them as to status?

Just wondering.

[Johnny630]

Vaults are good covers for still bids. They just keep re appearing in auctions down the road. Places with vaults are the the first thing I look for when I think something shady in terms of shill bidding could be goin on.

[jingram058]

I don't do very much buying on eBay anymore, but when I did there were sniping tools available, and a lot of people used them. I found it infuriating. Not only could these things bid at the last second, but they could also be set up to keep you as the high bidder if that was your desire. Maybe that's what happened?

[BobC]

Originally Posted by jingram058

I don't do very much buying on eBay anymore, but when I did there were sniping tools available, and a lot of people used them. I found it infuriating. Not only could these things bid at the last second, but they could also be set up to keep you as the high bidder if that was your desire. Maybe that's what happened?

That makes no sense at all. The main purpose(s) of sniping services was so that first, you didn't have to be available to bid as the auction ended, and second, to wait till the last few seconds of an auction to make your bid so you didn't bid early and allow someone else to run your bid up, and/or outbid you. What you are suggesting runs totally counter to one of the main reasons to ever use a sniping service.

Of the sniping services I've seen in use, I've never seen (or heard) of one that purposely kept running up the bidding long before an auction was ending. I'd love to hear what sniping service(s) you're aware of that just keeps bidding like that. And if there is one or more such services out there doing that, I frankly don't consider that a true sniper service. It is something else entirely, just not sure what.

[Gorditadogg]

Some auction houses let you set up a watch list, and will send you a text when there is a new bid.

Even with ebay, you can set up a snipe bid, and the snipe service will monitor the bidding and notify you if the bid amount goes above your snipe.

Bona fide bidders can use these tools just as easily as shills, so I would say most likely somebody wanted to make sure they got a bid in before the auction closed, either so they could be eligible for extended bidding, or maybe so the card showed up on their bid list.

[cammb]

Originally Posted by nolemmings

Please help me to understand. How would a seller know that a bid was placed on his item unless he was monitoring the auction at the time? Does he receive an email or other instant notification that there's been a bid? Can he or his shill automate a bid to be placed for $x as soon as there's been a bid by someone else?

I realize that the timing of the OP's transaction seems suspicious, but if there's a seller out there with multiple auction items what are the chances he is watching this item so closely 22 hours before the end? If he is going to shill is the idea that the victim will still be online and be motivated to bid again? Why not wait an hour or two--is the theory that the victim will be offline by then and may not think to go back and check? I suppose it's just as strange for a legitimate bidder to be looking in at the auction at that same time-- are users who put something on the watch list notified as soon as bids are placed on that item, so as to alert them as to status?

Just wondering.

Ebay does notify you when there is a bid. The problem I have is there was no interest in this COMMON card until I bid. The out bid came 3MINUTES LATER. It seemed very strange as to when I was outbid.

[Tyruscobb]

I don't believe in coincidences. This frequently happens to me on eBay. I'll enter the first bid for an item that was listed a few days earlier, and within 5 to 10 minutes later receive an email notifying me that a higher bid was just entered.

As an occasional seller, I know that sellers receive emails when there is bidding activity. In my instances, I suspect the seller received my bid and then logged into his/her shill account or contacted a buddy to shill bid the item.

I just laugh and walk away. If I suspect shilling I won't enter another bid on the item, and create notes not to bid on this seller's item again.

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by cammb

Ebay does notify you when there is a bid. The problem I have is there was no interest in this COMMON card until I bid. The out bid came 3MINUTES LATER. It seemed very strange as to when I was outbid.

eBay does not notify the seller when a bid is placed.

[cammb]

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

eBay does not notify the seller when a bid is placed.

Ebay sure does notify a seller when a bid is placed. I get notifications all the time.