Please Cleveland: go back to Indians?

[bxb]

I'm old school.

I look at the scores every morning, and I have to pause and figure out who the "Guardians" are.

I mean really, is everyone outside the country of India offended by the name Indians?

Just sayin'.

OK I feel better now.

[Snapolit1]

Fine with Guardians. Grew on me fast. It’s the Commanders that always confuses me. For some odd reason I really grew to like the Washington Football Team. Seemed very regal.

[Seven]

Originally Posted by bxb

I'm old school.

I look at the scores every morning, and I have to pause and figure out who the "Guardians" are.

I mean really, is everyone outside the country of India offended by the name Indians?

Just sayin'.

OK I feel better now.

I think it's because of the negative connotation behind the word "Indians" and how the Native American people were portrayed by a cartoonish, chief like character. I'm going to leave it at that because I do not wish to discuss politics, here on the board. I will say that I think many people fail to realize that the name change was meant to honor Louis Sockalexis, the first Native American to play in the Major Leagues. He was from the Penobscot tribe, if they really wanted to change the name, I thought it would have been cool had they worked with the tribe to arrive at a new name, or simply gone back to the Spiders or Naps.

[John1941]

I think they should have stayed with Indians. The name of the Indians was used in a racist way, but it can also be used to honor Indians. Going from Indians (specific and interesting) to Guardians (sounds generic) is going downhill.

[D. Bergin]

I'm fine with just about any name change for any reason anybody wants to do it. The names Brown's, Bee's, Senators, Pilot's, Expos, etc... also don't exist anymore either, for whatever reasons.

"Guardians" is pretty weak and generic though. They should have come up with something better. Working with local tribes to come up with a name suitable to them, sounds like a good idea to me also, but I have no idea the complexities involved to do something like that.

Maybe this speaks to my own budget, and what I want to put into seeing an actual baseball game live...but I was more annoyed then I ever have been, when our local minor league AA team went from the New Britain Rock Cats (I thought that was a pretty cool name and mascot)...to the Hartford Yard Goats.

Seriously, what the F%*k is a "Yard Goat"?

Is it just a goat in your yard? ...and why the hell would you name a baseball team after that?

[BobbyStrawberry]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

I'm fine with just about any name change for any reason anybody wants to do it. The names Brown's, Bee's, Senators, Pilot's, Expos, etc... also don't exist anymore either, for whatever reasons.

"Guardians" is pretty weak and generic though. They should have come up with something better. Working with local tribes to come up with a name suitable to them, sounds like a good idea to me also, but I have no idea the complexities involved to do something like that.

Maybe this speaks to my own budget, and what I want to put into seeing an actual baseball game live...but I was more annoyed then I ever have been, when our local minor league AA team went from the New Britain Rock Cats (I thought that was a pretty cool name and mascot)...to the Hartford Yard Goats.

Seriously, what the F%*k is a "Yard Goat"?

Is it just a goat in your yard? ...and why the hell would you name a baseball team after that?

"The nickname "Yard Goats" was selected as part of a "Name the Team" contest which drew over 6,000 submissions. "Yard goats" is rail-yard slang for the switch engines or terminal tractors that shuttle train cars between different locomotives. The stadium is adjacent to the Hartford rail yards."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hartford_Yard_Goats

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by BobbyStrawberry

"The nickname "Yard Goats" was selected as part of a "Name the Team" contest which drew over 6,000 submissions. "Yard goats" is rail-yard slang for the switch engines or terminal tractors that shuttle train cars between different locomotives. The stadium is adjacent to the Hartford rail yards."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hartford_Yard_Goats

HaHa yeah, I've read all that before.

Believe me, Hartford is NOT known for it's rail yards.

Also, their mascot is an actual goat. If you go to a home game, they have a petting zoo full of goats.

I guess it would be pretty cool if they had a petting zoo full of rail yard workers, though probably not suitable for the kids.

This was what they gave away one bobble head day:



Don't get me wrong. It's a great park and they do a good job running the organization, but man.....I can't abide.

[todeen]

Originally Posted by Seven

I think it's because of the negative connotation behind the word "Indians" and how the Native American people were portrayed by a cartoonish, chief like character. I'm going to leave it at that because I do not wish to discuss politics, here on the board. I will say that I think many people fail to realize that the name change was meant to honor Louis Sockalexis, the first Native American to play in the Major Leagues. He was from the Penobscot tribe, if they really wanted to change the name, I thought it would have been cool had they worked with the tribe to arrive at a new name, or simply gone back to the Spiders or Naps.

Agree with everything. Also wanted the Spiders.

Caricature/stereotypical figures are always racist. Think Lil Sambo, black face, or Shylock from the Merchant of Venice. Chief Wahoo was racist from his creation in 1949, and MLB allowed it to exist beyond what the normal public was comfortable with. I was only able to get a WS patch hat of Chief Wahoo, and my wife asks me to not wear it everytime I want to go out in public with it.

I think if MLB had acted a decade or two earlier, they could have saved the team name. A great example is MiLB team Spokane Indians who have worked very hard to create a respectful relationship with the local tribe. This relationship was built over many years while Cleveland did nothing similar. The team mascot is a salmon, and they have occasional jerseys written in the native language, plus other cool things.

If you want an interesting read, African American historian Henry Louis Gates writes about caricatures and black face in his historical book STONY THE ROAD, and explains how Southern Leaders used caricatures/black face/and stereotypes during post-Civil War Reconstruction to invalidate the right of African Americans to vote.

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[Mark17]

Originally Posted by todeen

Agree with everything. Also wanted the Spiders.

Caricature/stereotypical figures are always racist. Think Lil Sambo, black face, or Shylock from the Merchant of Venice. Chief Wahoo was racist from his creation in 1949, and MLB allowed it to exist beyond what the normal public was comfortable with. I was only able to get a WS patch hat of Chief Wahoo, and my wife asks me to not wear it everytime I want to go out in public with it.

I think if MLB had acted a decade or two earlier, they could have saved the team name. A great example is MiLB team Spokane Indians who have worked very hard to create a respectful relationship with the local tribe. This relationship was built over many years while Cleveland did nothing similar. The team mascot is a salmon, and they have occasional jerseys written in the native language, plus other cool things.

If you want an interesting read, African American historian Henry Louis Gates writes about caricatures and black face in his historical book STONY THE ROAD, and explains how Southern Leaders used caricatures/black face/and stereotypes during post-Civil War Reconstruction to invalidate the right of African Americans to vote.

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At Vikings games, there's a fat guy in a fur outfit with horns on his head and a big sword. I'm Scandinavian, but I choose to not be offended. I suppose I could be if that was my nature.

Just sayin'.

[Casey2296]

Naps or Spiders, not sure how the sjw naming committee missed on those two amazing opportunities to rename the club.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by Casey2296

Naps or Spiders, not sure how the sjw naming committee missed on those two amazing opportunities to rename the club.

Aside from people on this forum and some real old-timers, not very many people know who Lajoie is, or his history with the team. If you're going to do that you'd be better off naming the team something like the Fellers.

And the Spiders is worse. It is an insect, an arachnid, that many people detest. Plus, you name them the Spiders and the logical progression will carry over to Spiderman. And I can already see the potential lawsuits and issues coming with merchandising and such. Cleveland MLB ownership is not big on spending money, and they won't want to get into any licensing rights scandals or payouts. They got rid of Chief Wahoo, they should have just left the name.

[philliesfan]

I will always refer them as the Indians. I will never buy anything that refers to them as the Guardians.
I will always refer to the football team as the Redskins. I will never buy anything that refers to them as the Commanders.
Bob

[egri]

Originally Posted by philliesfan

I will always refer to the football team as the Redskins. I will never buy anything that refers to them as the Commanders.

I could never understand why a Washington team would go with 'Commanders'. The Pentagon is right across the river, and a Commander is just about the lowest ranking person there.

[BobC]

Interestingly, the Cleveland MLB franchise still has ownership of the Chief Wahoo name and image as a registered trademark, and products with the Chief Wahoo image are still available and being sold. If they really were abandoning the Chief Wahoo image, why did they bother to officially re-register the trademark for it in 2016, and continue to sell Chief Wahoo merchandise to this day?

The simple answer of course is money. The Cleveland fan base is not going to simply abandon their team's history and iconic logo just like that. The team and MLB are trying to be politically correct, but do not want to lose fans and revenue. They realize that fully abandoning, and then going even further to officially ban, the Indians name and Chief Wahoo logo will likely resort in losing fans, and revenue as a result.

I also wonder if the fact that the Indians play the Toronto Blue Jays in Canada each year, while the Atlanta Braves do not necessarily regularly play in Canada every year, has anything to do with the Cleveland franchise seeming to get so much more criticism and pressure to get rid of the Indians name? I understand Canadian trademark laws and conditions can be much different than in the US, and prior legal actions and future threats of continued efforts to stop the use of the Chief Wahoo image and Indians name at games in Toronto was likely a compelling reason for MLB to put added pressure on Cleveland for the name change, but not so much Atlanta.

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by BobC

I also wonder if the fact that the Indians play the Toronto Blue Jays in Canada each year, while the Atlanta Braves do not ever play in Canada (unless those two teams should wind up facing each other in a World Series), has anything to do with the Cleveland franchise seeming to get so much more criticism and pressure to get rid of the Indians name?

Who would be offended by having ones' ancestors called "Brave"?

Some people have to do a backwards flip to find an excuse to pretend to be offended.

[nolemmings]

Originally Posted by BobC

I also wonder if the fact that the Indians play the Toronto Blue Jays in Canada each year, while the Atlanta Braves do not ever play in Canada (unless those two teams should wind up facing each other in a World Series), has anything to do with the Cleveland franchise seeming to get so much more criticism and pressure to get rid of the Indians name? I understand Canadian trademark laws and conditions can be much different than in the US, and prior legal actions and future threats of continued efforts to stop the use of the Chief Wahoo image and Indians name at games in Toronto was likely a compelling reason for MLB to put added pressure on Cleveland for the name change, but not so much Atlanta.

Where did you hear that the Atlanta Braves do not ever play in Toronto?