1919 Ruth vs 2021 Ohtani

[frankbmd]

These two seasons provide the best comparison based on how they were used both as pitchers and hitters. Ruth was exclusively a hurler until 1918.
He was effectively no longer pitching in 1920. He did both hitting and pitching on a regular basis only in 1919. So how have they done.

Home runs

Ohtani 37 with 60 games to play
Ruth 29

Stolen Bases

Ohtani 14
Ruth 7

ERA

Ohtani 3.09 with 15 starts
Ruth 2.97 with 15 starts

Batting Average

Ohtani .280
Ruth .322

Opposing pitchers are beginning to walk Ohtani more.
Ruth had over 100 walks in 1919.

There is really no other season comparable to 2021 Ohtani since 1919.

I’m a believer in this kid and feel that it would be a disservice if he is not the MVP this year.

He is truly fun to watch.

[oldjudge]

He is having a great season but the comparison is apples to oranges. A better comparison would be to look at the percentage of the players HRs to total major league HRs. When this is done there is no comparison.

[frankbmd]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

He is having a great season but the comparison is apples to oranges. A better comparison would be to look at the percentage of the players HRs to total major league HRs. When this is done there is no comparison.

One season apples to apples.

I’m making no assertions regarding their career totals, hall of fame credentials or anything else. I totally agree that one Ohtani season is not comparable to 20 Ruth seasons.

To deny what Shohei is doing and bringing to the game is like wearing sunglasses on a cloudy day at sundown. I wish him well.

[oldjudge]

Originally Posted by frankbmd

One season apples to apples.

I’m making no assertions regarding their career totals, hall of fame credentials or anything else. I totally agree that one Ohtani season is not comparable to 20 Ruth seasons.

To deny what Shohei is doing and bringing to the game is like wearing sunglasses on a cloudy day at sundown. I wish him well.

That’s not what I’m saying. Take team stats for the year in question. Ruth hit 29/33 HRs for the BoSox. Otani is hitting 37/137 HRs for the Angels. A great number but no comparison to Ruth.

[frankbmd]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

That’s not what I’m saying. Take team stats for the year in question. Ruth hit 29/33 HRs for the BoSox. Otani is hitting 37/137 HRs for the Angels. A great number but no comparison to Ruth.

I’m not comparing the Red Sox team to the Angels team, nor am I claiming any real similarity between 1919 and 2021.

Ruth in 1919 was unique to the game. In 2021 Ohtani is unique to the game.

They are similar in their uniquity in the years cited, even if Ruth is an apple and Ohtani is an orange.

It would be ridiculous too speculate what Ruth’s numbers would look like if he were playing in 2021 and what Ohtani’s numbers would have been had he played in 1919. Would the Red Sox team have hit more home runs in 1919 with Ohtani on the team. C’mon Man.

Three astute members of the forum understand and agree with my premise.

[G1911]

The first post is directly comparing their numbers without regard to the context in which they happened, though. It's not really nitpicking to observe the titanic gulf between offense in 1919 and 2021 that makes directly comparing non-contextual statistics extremely misleading.

Ruth was a much, much better offensive season than Ohtani's in context, but worse pitching (His ERA was 2% better than the league). Ruth's season changed how the offensive game has been played ever since; we shall see if Ohtani has any real effect.

[wolf441]

Originally Posted by frankbmd

I’m not comparing the Red Sox team to the Angels team, nor am I claiming any real similarity between 1919 and 2021.

Ruth in 1919 was unique to the game. In 2021 Ohtani is unique to the game.

They are similar in their uniiquity in the years cited, even if Ruth is an apple and Ohtani is an orange.

It would be ridiculous too speculate what Ruth’s numbers would look like if he were playing in 2021 and what Ohtani’s numbers would have been had he played in 1919. Wooud the Red Sox team have hit more home runs in 1919 with Ohtani on the team. C’mon Man.

Three astute members of the forum understand and agree with my premise.

I agree!!

[doug.goodman]

I agree with your point 100% Frank.

Sure we can nitpick about every stat, but the general point "There is really no other season comparable to 2021 Ohtani since 1919" is valid.

Also, no question on his MVP creds, in my opinion.

Doug

[Casey2296]

100% agree Frank, Ohtani are the only modern cards I own.

[sbfinley]

Not that I believe what someone can accomplish in a season is a direct correlation to a career but I saw this stat today: Ohtani’s season OPS+ is comparable to Mantle’s career OPS+. While also his season’s ERA+ is comparable to Pedro’s career ERA+. I’m enjoying watching his amazing season.

[robw1959]

Originally Posted by frankbmd

These two seasons provide the best comparison based on how they were used both as pitchers and hitters. Ruth was exclusively a hurler until 1918.
He was effectively no longer pitching in 1920. He did both hitting and pitching on a regular basis only in 1919. So how have they done.

Home runs

Ohtani 37 with 60 games to pla
Ruth 29

Stolen Bases

Ohtani 14
Ruth 7

ERA

Ohtani 3.09 with 15 starts
Ruth 2.97 with 15 starts

Batting Average

Ohtani .280
Ruth .322

Opposing pitchers are beginning to walk Ohtani more.
Ruth had over 100 walks in 1919.

There is really no other season comparable to 2021 Ohtani since 1919.

I’m a believer in this kid and feel that it would be a disservice if he is not the MVP this year.

He is truly fun to watch.

While I basically agree with you, Frank, about how exciting Ohtani is, I also feel that a bit more perspective is in order. For example, the fences were typically 450+ feet from home plate back in Ruth's day. There is a book titled, "The Year the Babe Hit 104 Home Runs," which, I believe, is premised on the idea that today's fences would have yielded that many homers to Ruth in 1921 even though the record books only credit him with 59. In fact, we still have good video evidence that the Babe was able to hit a 500+ foot home run in every American League park that year! And of course we know there were years when he out-homered entire teams. As a power hitter, I don't think anyone else compares to Ruth.

[molenick]

Originally Posted by robw1959

While I basically agree with you, Frank, about how exciting Ohtani is, I also feel that a bit more perspective is in order. For example, the fences were typically 450+ feet from home plate back in Ruth's day. There is a book titled, "The Year the Babe Hit 104 Home Runs," which, I believe, is premised on the idea that today's fences would have yielded that many homers to Ruth in 1921 even though the record books only credit him with 59. In fact, we still have good video evidence that the Babe was able to hit a 500+ foot home run in every American League park that year! And of course we know there were years when he out-homered entire teams. As a power hitter, I don't think anyone else compares to Ruth.

He is only credited with 59 home runs in 1921 because that is how many he it. I don't know of any record books that make adjustments based on what the fences would be like in the future.

This is great news that there is good video evidence of Babe Ruth's home runs in every AL park in 1921. I would love to see those videos so any links would be appreciated.

[jingram058]

It is an interesting comparison, and Ohtani is pretty amazing, indeed. I hope it works out for him in the long run. We'll see what happens during "the test of time".

Ruth turned out to be bigger than life, single-handedly saving baseball from the Black Sox scandal, hitting so many home runs that, at the time, it was incomprehensible, leaving many people far more intelligent and knowledgeable than me thinking he's the greatest ballplayer, ever. With a larger than life personality to go with all that.

Ohtani has this sort of potential?

[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by jingram058

It is an interesting comparison, and Ohtani is pretty amazing, indeed. I hope it works out for him in the long run. We'll see what happens during "the test of time".

Ruth turned out to be bigger than life, single-handedly saving baseball from the Black Sox scandal, hitting so many home runs that, at the time, it was incomprehensible, leaving many people far more intelligent and knowledgeable than me thinking he's the greatest ballplayer, ever. With a larger than life personality to go with all that.

Ohtani has this sort of potential?

I do not believe he has that potential to be the big influence like the babe, for one he is in a small market (by his choice) and they never win so he is not seen as much and since he is not in the playoff he is not seen and does not have a chance to build a legacy thru championships.

But we can enjoy his skills and highlights in the regular season

[D. Bergin]

LOL, it shouldn't be sacrilegious just to utter Babe Ruth and Shohei Ohtani's name in the same breath.

Nobody's comparing them beat for beat. Just one fascinating season with another, from two unique athletes from completely different era's.

To pretend it's not going to be a natural comparison for fans to make, comes off as slightly obstinate to me.

Don't worry guys. Ohtani is not going to supplant Babe Ruth in any legacy race, and he's not going to cause your Babe Ruth cards and memorabilia to lose value because a bunch of young whippersnappers are salivating all over Ohtani right now.

Personally to me, without the benefit of hindsight, Ohtani most reminds me of somebody like Bo Jackson...........but for obvious different reasons.

I don't think Ohtani will ever be a HOF'er (*unless his Japanese League accomplishments are taken into consideration), but we will look back and ooooh and ahhhhhh over his accomplishments over a short amount of time before injuries and expectations catch up to him.

.......and I wouldn't hand him the MVP quite yet. He's not exactly proven to be an Iron Man, and he could just as conceivably tear a ligament or blow out a knee in the next week or so, as he could strike out 12 guys, or have a 3 homer game.

Who knows, he might go on to have a long and distinguished career. If this was the late 80's or 90's, he might have the medicinal help to do just that...........but most other era's......when a player becomes injury prone, he doesn't suddenly stop being injury prone.