PWCC contract with SGC cancelled???

[whiteymet]

OK, let me preface this by saying I am NOT a graded collector nor know the ins and outs of grading and big time seller industry.

But a friend of mine who sends ungraded cards to PWCC just told me he talked to them today and PWCC told him PSA just bought SGC, and cancelled the contract PWCC has to get cards graded by SGC.

This does not sound legit to me. Does anyone have any info?

I don't want to start a bad rumor, but my friend is an attorney and this is the story I got directly from him.

My friend is put off because PWCC only sells graded cards he tells me, and he can't get his cards graded by PWCC through SGC and with the long wait for PSA they may be going to Beckett.

Does any of this make sense or is my friend getting a story from PWCC?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by whiteymet

OK, let me preface this by saying I am NOT a graded collector nor know the ins and outs of grading and big time seller industry.

But a friend of mine who sends ungraded cards to PWCC just told me he talked to them today and PWCC told him PSA just bought SGC, and cancelled the contract PWCC has to get cards graded by SGC.

This does not sound legit to me. Does anyone have any info?

I don't want to start a bad rumor, but my friend is an attorney and this is the story I got directly from him.

My friend is put off because PWCC only sells graded cards he tells me, and he can't get his cards graded by PWCC through SGC and with the long wait for PSA they may be going to Beckett.

Does any of this make sense or is my friend getting a story from PWCC?

I have posted elsewhere I heard this was in the works although I was accused of fake news by the SGC faithful. It certainly would not surprise me, at all.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

I started hearing rumblings about this a little over a week ago.

[whiteymet]

So, if true, I guess the big story here is PSA or their new parent company is buying SGC!

What does this mean for graded collectors? Especially those who specialized in SGC. Not to mention there were sets SGC would grade that PSA would not.

What happens to values of SGC graded cards?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by whiteymet

So, if true, I guess the big story here is PSA or their new parent company is buying SGC!

What does this mean for graded collectors? Especially those who specialized in SGC. Not to mention there were sets SGC would grade that PSA would not.

What happens to values of SGC graded cards?

If this all comes to pass part of the answer may depend on PSA's stance towards crossing, I would think.

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I have posted elsewhere I heard this was in the works although I was accused of fake news by the SGC faithful. It certainly would not surprise me, at all.

Are You Kidding me ?? Oy Vey

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

Are You Kidding me ?? Oy Vey

I have no direct knowledge, but no I am not kidding at all, I have heard this from several sources. And it's certainly consistent with PSA ownership obviously having a strong mergers and acquisitions background, and having actively made acquisitions already, not to mention having a lot of money in general. And if you're Dave, and someone is offering you enough millions, why not take it?

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I have no direct knowledge, but no I am not kidding at all, I have heard this from several sources.

Unbelievable well..... 2021 in this Hobby Maybe Not. Wow

[Casey2296]

Conspiracy against the Black Apron.
This will not bode well for anybody except the puppeteers at the top.

[butchie_t]

No monopolistic move with that purchase at all…..

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by butchie_t

No monopolistic move with that purchase at all…..

They are already raising prices hugely with impunity. SGC is not a constraint on their pricing IMO.

[Johnny630]

Newport Beach Division and Boca Raton Division.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

Newport Beach Division and Boca Raton Division.

PSA is grading 25K cards a DAY. I doubt SGC is even a small fraction of that.

[peanuts]

Originally Posted by butchie_t

No monopolistic move with that purchase at all…..

[s]PSA are not doing anything that resembles anti-competitive behavior. They're buying out a competitor, which is totally allowed.
Honestly, their price hikes probably were pro-competitive, as it made a not-insignificant amount of people shift from subbing to PSA to subbing to SGC.

Regardless, this is a letdown. SGC had really been taking the boom in stride and seemed to be getting ahead of their growing pains. Will be interesting to see what happens next. [/s]
WOOPS, just finished reading the thread. Glad to see no merger. Excited to see how both companies evolve as we come out of the boom!

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by peanuts

PSA are not doing anything that resembles anti-competitive behavior. They're buying out a competitor, which is totally allowed.
Honestly, their price hikes probably were pro-competitive, as it made a not-insignificant amount of people shift from subbing to PSA to subbing to SGC.

Regardless, this is a letdown. SGC had really been taking the boom in stride and seemed to be getting ahead of their growing pains. Will be interesting to see what happens next.

It's moot because Nat has said there's no deal, but you obviously are not familiar with the Clayton Act, the Hart-Scott-Rodino Act, etc. People should not make pronouncements about the law when they don't know it. Many mergers and acquisitions have been challenged successfully by the government because they substantially lessened competition. So no, buying out a competitor is not "totally allowed," it depends.

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Many mergers and acquisitions have been challenged successfully by the government because they substantially lessened competition. So no, buying out a competitor is not "totally allowed," it depends.

Would the heavy hand of government really come down to prevent a card grading service from eating up another one? Beckett is still out there, plus the new one (SCG or whatever), and entry into the market by a new entity is not prohibited by licenses or contracts that would stop them (for instance, a company can't automatically produce baseball cards without first obtaining licensing rights from MLB, the Players Association, and so on...)

[peanuts]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

It's moot because Nat has said there's no deal, but you obviously are not familiar with the Clayton Act, the Hart-Scott-Rodino Act, etc. People should not make pronouncements about the law when they don't know it. Many mergers and acquisitions have been challenged successfully by the government because they substantially lessened competition. So no, buying out a competitor is not "totally allowed," it depends.

I'm familiar with HSR and Clayton! Been doing lots of reading on anti-trust over the past few years. Very interesting field right now.
I don't see how this proposed merger would have been blocked by the FTC. An HSR filing would definitely be needed, given the size of PSA, but I doubt there's a denial of the proposal. The vast majority of mergers are approved, and this particular acquisition doesn't strike me one which would be flagged. There are several other legitimate competitors (BGS, CGC/CSG, HGA). PSA's pricing has not been manipulative (again, if anything, their pricing – often what the FTC has chosen to focus on in the past, though the Khan-led Commission may change that focus – has increased their competitor's business). This is a field which does not concern public welfare or essential services – another area where the FTC has been laissez-faire in the past decades. Additionally, recent upstarts have been able to grow, which can be construed as a lack of anti-competitive behavior (see: many of the contentions about the defensive acquisition of nascent firms by established technology giants as of late).

They would likely have just paid the filling fee, waited, and gotten approval. FTC/DOJ is still hands off for the most part, and they are looking to focus their efforts in a specific field.

[drmondobueno]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

It's moot because Nat has said there's no deal, but you obviously are not familiar with the Clayton Act, the Hart-Scott-Rodino Act, etc. People should not make pronouncements about the law when they don't know it. Many mergers and acquisitions have been challenged successfully by the government because they substantially lessened competition. So no, buying out a competitor is not "totally allowed," it depends.

Peter, I’ve been through three corporate mergers and in all three my managers emphatically denied there were any type of transaction in process. Of course, after the mergers ( I had still had jobs with two of three, at least for a “while”,), the word was these managers knew about the acquisitions but were sworn to secrecy under threat of litigation and were instructed to say the rumors were not true. Much of this, I am sure, was due to federal secrecy and non disclosure requirements...

Just my two cents from my past of misdirection and big money. Denials mean not a wholehelluva lot to me, no offense intended to anyone responding in this thread.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Casey2296

Conspiracy against the Black Apron.
This will not bode well for anybody except the puppeteers at the top.

That's often how these industry consolidations go.

[Jcosta19]

Should they merge in some way or sell outright perhaps they will make SGC the vintage card grader for Collectors universe.

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