Auction flippers

[theshleps]

I bid on many auctions of signed cards that are on my want list. Sometimes I win. Sometimes I bid alittle higher than what I think is a good value and still get outbid and then a few weeks later I see the winning bidder selling the item on ebay for 2-3x the price they paid. Not only do I find it annoying, but it raises prices in general and makes it harder and harder for us collectors to pick up any of our wants. On alot of signed cards of HOFers (pre 1970) they have gone up anywhere between 300-600% in the last 2-5 years at least. It is great in terms of how much my collection is worth (I am sure alot of us have collections worth more than our houses now) but it makes it hard to add to our collections.
Am wondering what you folks think of this phenomena.

[tazdmb]

Seems to me that this has been going on since I started going deep into autographs around 5 years ago. Usually, to me, the seller eventually needs to liquidate and get the cash out and the item goes back to auction. Sometimes I can win it, other times I can't.

[Lordstan]

I have definitely seen this, but it is not limited to autographs. I routinely bid, and get blown away by bids, in various auctions on photos that wind up sitting for months, if not years, on eBay at double the price. This past year especially, has been absolutely terrible for this phenomenon. There was even a thread in the other board about this happening in tickets as well.
It seems the flipper/investors have taken over contol of pricing from the collectors. It's their money and that can spend it how they please. In some ways i am happy for them as they have certainly raised the value of all of our collections. The down side is that it makes it much much more difficult to add new items anywhere remotely reasonably. As someone who prioritizes the joy and passion of the items, not the future upside value, as the reason he collects what he does, i do find it frustrating.
A perfect example is this photo. I bid approx $2100 on it 2yrs ago ish in the auction and came in second. At the time it was not slabbed. It has sat on ebay at this price since then...
[Utl]https://www.ebay.com/itm/Lou-Gehrig-1926-New-York-Yankees-Type-1-Original-Photo-PSA-DNA-Crystal-Clear-/393180812698?_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49286[/URL]

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[philo98]

This has also been true with tickets. Many of the bidders winning lots at some of the major auction houses overpay by 2 to 3 times, then throw the ticket on Ebay for another 3-6X mark up where the ticket then sits for years. Ive noticed some trying to liquidate in other forums (FB groups, other non-Ebay auctions (PwCC), etc) and are extremely upset of the prices they are getting or were offered. But it started from the beginning on paying way too much.

[AustinMike]

Originally Posted by Lordstan

I have definitely seen this, but it is not limited to autographs. I routinely bid, and get blown away by bids, in various auctions on photos that wind up sitting for months, if not years, on eBay at double the price. This past year especially, has been absolutely terrible for this phenomenon. There was even a thread in the other board about this happening in tickets as well.
It seems the flipper/investors have taken over contol of pricing from the collectors. It's their money and that can spend it how they please. In some ways i am happy for them as they have certainly raised the value of all of our collections. The down side is that it makes it much much more difficult to add new items anywhere remotely reasonably. As someone who prioritizes the joy and passion of the items, not the future upside value, as the reason he collects what he does, i do find it frustrating.
A perfect example is this photo. I bid approx $2100 on it 2yrs ago ish in the auction and came in second. At the time it was not slabbed. It has sat on ebay at this price since then...
[Utl]https://www.ebay.com/itm/Lou-Gehrig-1926-New-York-Yankees-Type-1-Original-Photo-PSA-DNA-Crystal-Clear-/393180812698?_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49286[/URL]

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I have been outbid on a number of photos by this seller only to see the item show up on ebay for 2 to 3 times what he paid for it. He usually has a "best offer" along with the BIN and I've often been tempted to make an offer at what my losing bid was just to see what kind of response I'd get. Haven't done it yet, but maybe one of these days.

[Lordstan]

Originally Posted by AustinMike

I have been outbid on a number of photos by this seller only to see the item show up on ebay for 2 to 3 times what he paid for it. He usually has a "best offer" along with the BIN and I've often been tempted to make an offer at what my losing bid was just to see what kind of response I'd get. Haven't done it yet, but maybe one of these days.

I have considered doing the same thing.

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[Republicaninmass]

It's a mystery, however many of them dont come back up for sale. Does the flipper have your list by chance? I've been hesitant to post needs for fear of people just running me up!



I think people are just starting to realize how tough these cards are to find signed. There might be 318 psa 10 Jordan's, but there are less than a dozen examples of many signed hofers on gum cards.

Also, the thrill Is in the chase. With the advent of Ebay one can buy just about any card, any day of the week. Just like coins, collectors are drawn to persue more difficult avenues.


Talk about a splash? For their FORAY into a signed 1952 topps set, someone bought one of the most difficult cards...first. I was read the riot act for "running up" a signed lot of cards with the first Meyer graded.

Then the second, with the name box erased sold for 5500, and the peanut gallery backed off.

Just the third graded attached below




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[jimjim]

Originally Posted by theshleps

I bid on many auctions of signed cards that are on my want list. Sometimes I win. Sometimes I bid alittle higher than what I think is a good value and still get outbid and then a few weeks later I see the winning bidder selling the item on ebay for 2-3x the price they paid. Not only do I find it annoying, but it raises prices in general and makes it harder and harder for us collectors to pick up any of our wants. On alot of signed cards of HOFers (pre 1970) they have gone up anywhere between 300-600% in the last 2-5 years at least. It is great in terms of how much my collection is worth (I am sure alot of us have collections worth more than our houses now) but it makes it hard to add to our collections.
Am wondering what you folks think of this phenomena.

This has been going on with autograph baseballs for 5-10 years. And it has really driven up the price of the more rare inscribed baseballs. All it takes is 1 or 2 buyers to really drive up the market for rare items. For example, say 15 signed balls with HOF are sold a year on eBay. All these dealers have to do is buy them all for the going rate and then list them for 2-3x what they paid. Anyone that comes along that doesn’t do their homework (and their are plenty) will think that is the going rate or offer a bit less and think they just got a ‘deal’. And now a new higher comp was just created. Some say it’s just good business and based on supply and demand. But I have been watching this unfold since it started. Whenever said item was put up for auction it would sell for the appropriate amount say $300 (debunking the supply/demand theory). So that was stopped pretty quickly and the sellers only use buy it now for say $900, hoping to find an uneducated buyer and they usually do sooner or later.

[T206Collector]

Mill Creek did this with a ton of the Doc Steen stuff which sold in May 2015 at a lesser known auction house. At one point I offered them some of my signed M101-2s from that collection for twice what I paid, but still 50% below their markup on their M101-2s. Their response literally was “No, why would I do that?” So, it’s not like they think the items are worth 4x what they are worth. They just know on rare items that a whale will come along once in awhile and bite. I suppose the business model only works when You can mark it up five times their purchase price.

So they still have stuff from the Doc Steen collection on eBay some 6 years later, including these 3 photos at the link below. Sometimes these items become more or less museum pieces than collectibles.

https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fro...=0&_odkw=stein

They purchased the Bill Lee for $50, and they’ve had it listed at $260 for the last 6 years!

https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item...otograph-10-x8

https://www.ebay.com/itm/233692419729

[doug.goodman]

Originally Posted by T206Collector

Mill Creek ... they think the items are worth 4x what they are worth. They purchased the Bill Lee for $50, and they’ve had it listed at $260 for the last 6 years!

Currently "on sale" for "only" double and a half what they paid for it...

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by doug.goodman

Currently "on sale" for "only" double and a half what they paid for it...

That is way better than the ones that add provenance to a item.

I have seen a awesome signed ball with a cool inscription sell 4 times over the years. The first 3 times it had the same description. The last seller is a highly respected "collector" and a real POS. When he sold the ball it somehow became game used from a record setting game. I messaged the seller and not only did they stick to the lie they then tried telling me it was also a rookie autograph.LOL

I guess I am saying I would rather have someone who is a flipper try to make a killing than be a con artist. LOL, I know that is a LOT to ask for.

[Republicaninmass]

Yep, Mill creek is very actively bidding on auctions. Probably a dozen times I've been outbid and see them with the card listed.


So I applied....and like Paul I said just buy my duplicates. They didnt even make an offer!

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[theshleps]

Alot of dupes I consigned to auction houses that did poorly were bought by Mill Creek who then listed on ebay at inflated prices

[rlevy]

These signed Topps Jackie Robinson cards in Heritage's auction were discussed in another thread, and are now on eBay with Press Pass Collectibles at twice the price paid in Heritage. Looking for that whale.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/40291377310...QAAOSw~RJgwvIG
https://www.ebay.com/itm/40291377294...YAAOSw1slgwvIF
https://www.ebay.com/itm/40291377255...QAAOSwaHZgwvH4

[Exhibitman]

The beauty of the system is that you don't have to pay more than you want and you don't have to sell for less than you want.

[bjerome]

A lot of what you guys talk about reeks of shill bidding to me.