So I walked into a card store today, and was puzzled by...

[luciobar1980]

So I walk into a card store today. I’ll leave it unnamed, but it’s in the Pacific Northwest if that makes any difference. Pretty small shop, one case of some vintage. It was kind of strange. He had a really beat up 52 Mantle in the center of the case, and a 39 Play Ball DiMaggio, but then all around it there wasn’t a single card over $100. The mantle wasn’t priced but he did say he had gotten offers of $10,000 and turned it down. They both certainly looked real but it was kind of strange that besides those 2 cards everything else was pretty much under $50. Anyways, that’s not really the point of my story.

I asked him if he had any higher end vintage around. He basically told me nahhh, “that stuff is dying off”. I was like hmm, what do you mean by that exactly? He went on to explain that vintage is really dead, nobody is really interested in it anymore. He said most collectors were older, already had all the cards they needed, and the younger generation didn’t care about vintage. He also vaguely told me how, as an example, pretty much all Willie Mays cards go for like $20, or something like that. I didn’t really inquire beyond that despite being morbidly curious. It was strange. This guy owns a card shop and thinks vintage is dead? He made it seem like Mays cards that used to be very valuable can now be pretty much picked up very cheap. I didn’t feel like getting into a discussion about it, so I pretty much played the dumb “I used to collect cards as a kid” role. I know you’re reading my vague second-hand story, but can anyone venture and explanation as what this guy was talking about or why he would say that??

[pokerplyr80]

Maybe this guy doesn't go online much, or at the least he doesn't search ebay for vintage listings or visit online auction sites. And the people who walk into his shop are more interest in modern cards.

The last local shop I walked into (in OC) the owner seemed pretty knowledgable but said he sells anything higher end online, not in the shop. He gave me a card with his ebay ID on it.

[Casey2296]

Welcome to an underfunded small business. He just gave you that line to save face. I would imagine it takes a huge capital investment to play card dealer nowadays.

Best thing to do? Next time you're in there buy something from him. Don't try to negotiate, and tell him you've been looking for that card for years.

You'll both feel better.

[ronniehatesjazz]

I think this isn't as uncommon as we'd like to believe. When I lived in Dallas a few years back there were maybe 7-8 shops in the metroplex and pretty much all of them catered to the newer stuff... more volume and the prices are sadly not that much different than vintage. The oldest cards I could come across were 50's-60's and they were always low end mantles, mays, etc. Occasionally, I'd come across a few decent prewar cards but it was rare outside of the monthly show that was humorously at the "Southfork" Hotel... Great shows nonetheless and always some nice vintage items.

I think when it comes to the older stuff it's usually best to deal with other collectors at shows or online. TBH, outside of my interest in vintage, if I owned a shop I would be doing the same thing. So much easier to move cases of prizm and zion rainbows lol than sitting on a 55 clemente for months until a collector of means and knowledge walks in and pays you a fair price. That being said, I live in Cincinnati now and there is an amazing shop that caters to all but it's a rarity.

[cardsagain74]

The local longtime shop where I recently lived (big city) catered plenty to modern, but he also told me "I can never keep hall-of-famers in the case".

And that was just before the covid boom, no less

[Rich Klein]

[QUOTE=ronniehatesjazz;2037870]I think this isn't as uncommon as we'd like to believe. When I lived in Dallas a few years back there were maybe 7-8 shops in the metroplex and pretty much all of them catered to the newer stuff... more volume and the prices are sadly not that much different than vintage. The oldest cards I could come across were 50's-60's and they were always low end mantles, mays, etc. Occasionally, I'd come across a few decent prewar cards but it was rare outside of the monthly show that was humorously at the "Southfork" Hotel... Great shows nonetheless and always some nice vintage items.

Hey that was MY show at the "Southfork" Hotel. Glad you enjoyed coming to them

Rich

[GasHouseGang]

A local shop here is sort of the same way. They also sell comics to help make ends meet. I've talked to the owner several times. He's a nice older gentleman that used to deal in much more vintage. Now he has one small case with some 50's and 60's. He said they just don't have people wanting to buy the older cards. I think I'm the only one I've seen looking at the cards in the vintage case. Everyone that comes in wants the latest boxes of the hot cards, the newest comic, or one of the rainbow refractors of the newest rookie.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by Casey2296

Welcome to an underfunded small business. He just gave you that line to save face. I would imagine it takes a huge capital investment to play card dealer nowadays.

Best thing to do? Next time you're in there buy something from him. Don't try to negotiate, and tell him you've been looking for that card for years.

You'll both feel better.

Or he sized the OP up as an older guy who would potentially offload some vintage cheap if he was told that stuff wasn't worth anything.

There used to be a lot of guys who would run stuff down to try buying it cheap.
"I can buy a bunch of those for X =50% less than priced"
"Those aren't worth anything, I have hundreds I can't sell for half that"

Ok then, go buy those cheaper ones and I'll buy them for double what you paid. Or- Ok then, bring them to me, I'll buy them.

Funny, the supply of the identical item for very little suddenly doesn't exist.

[egri]

Originally Posted by steve B

Or he sized the OP up as an older guy who would potentially offload some vintage cheap if he was told that stuff wasn't worth anything.

There used to be a lot of guys who would run stuff down to try buying it cheap.
"I can buy a bunch of those for X =50% less than priced"
"Those aren't worth anything, I have hundreds I can't sell for half that"

Ok then, go buy those cheaper ones and I'll buy them for double what you paid. Or- Ok then, bring them to me, I'll buy them.

Funny, the supply of the identical item for very little suddenly doesn't exist.

I remember reading a few years ago about one of the experts from Antiques Roadshow got in trouble for doing something similar with Civil War relics. He would give his lowball valuation, then his partner would come up afterwards and make a higher (but still below market) offer. I forget how they were caught, or what the fallout was, though.

[oldeboo]

The whole industry is hot, but I think the modern stuff is very very hot. You look at prices of cards made in the last 2 or 3 years and they are nuts. It's not uncommon to see rookies of recent players selling easily in excess of 10K. There is just more demand for modern players that people can relate to and watch play currently. The margins are probably much larger with the new stuff as well from a business perspective, heck of a lot more risk as well. You look at eBay listings and a generic search I did shows 6.3 million modern cards, 1.3 million post-war, and 45k pre-war. Sure, some of that modern includes junk wax and these numbers are a representation of availability, but they say something. I don't think it's a stretch to say that there is more money in the ultra modern stuff whether we like it or not. Vintage cards are a bit of a niche and not mainstream in my opinion. With that said, I have no interest in the modern stuff like many here.

[conor912]

You can’t totally blame him. First, I know plenty of vintage dealers who don’t know the first thing about modern stuff. I don't see any difference. Second, he’s catering to his clients. I’m sure as far as the demand from his customers goes, vintage is dead. If people kept coming in asking for T206s, guess what his case would be filled with? Now would it serve him as a dealer to be at least somewhat versed in other parts of the hobby? Absolutely, but there are plenty of hacks in every industry who do just fine.

[todeen]

You have a bunch of new/returning collectors who want to buy the players they see on tv. They might not have experience with players whose cards start high, then steadily decrease in price over the years as newer phenoms are introduced (Ichiro, Pujols, Griffey, Arod, Bonds). As these newbies gain experience and see "value" of their collection depreciate, they will eventually realize why other collectors buy vintage: cards have stopped losing value, remain stable, or prices steadily increase. My LCS has three rooms of cards, yet just one case of vintage. He can't get vintage as easily as he can obtain newer product, and so it appears as if he caters to vintage. My other LCS doesn't sell cards at all, I don't even know how he remains open selling 400ct boxes, holders, and binders. But he must have plenty of business - he's been open 20 years.

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[Luke]

I have an idea I might know who this is. I might be wrong, it might be another card shop owner. There are always some angles that are harder to see as a customer. A local card shop owner I know used to have an incredible group of vintage cases, and then one night he was robbed and lost hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of cards. It broke his heart, and his vintage cases never had anything special in them after that.

Most card shops that have managed to stay open have put a lot of effort and store space into gaming cards and catering to that customer. If you're mostly a baseball card shop, it would certainly make sense to have some old cards, but if baseball is like your 5th most popular offering, keeping older, hard to source cards around might not be a big priority.

[Exhibitman]

I don't blame the LCS owners. It is impossible to be expert in everything.

Successful LCS's basically thrive on sales of new unopened product, box breaks of unopened products, and sales of single cards from newer product that they break down in-house and retail. They will price the 2020 Topps Doohickymajig refractor properly but they guess at everything else and often are so busy dealing with the volume of sales and material needed to make a go of modern that they will sell a rare card without researching it, which can be dangerous with a BIN on eBay. Case in point: shortly before COVID, my LCS came across some 1961 Bell Brand Lakers on a walk-in, including a West and a Baylor. For those who don't know the issue, these are painfully rare, very early cards of West and Baylor, and are coveted and extremely valuable to California regional and basketball collectors; in 2014 a West w/o the coupon sold for $5,000 in an H & S auction. In today's basketball market I have little doubt it would be a $10,000 card. He listed them for sale on eBay with BINs at about 10%-15% of actual value, they sold instantly, and he was none the wiser until I asked him WTF he was thinking. Left at least $10,000-$15,000 on the table.

[Throttlesteer]

I'm in the same general area as the OP. Im unfamiliar with the shop, but I would question whether the Mantle and Teddy are legit given the owner's feedback. Those are two iconic cards in a pool of low $ modern. I guess its possible theyre conversation pieces.

[ClementeFanOh]

Lucio- I collect comics as well, and am lucky to be 30 minutes away from a phenomenal brick and mortar "mom and pop" comic store. The owner is a subject matter expert who knows his livelihood depends on knowledge of his chosen field of sale. This store has gotten my business for THIRTY years. I actually look for and "root" for the small business owner, but that mindset assumes the owner knows what he is talking about (and shows a little passion for the field, right?) I wouldn't have been mean to him, but I would have had zero qualms about walking away- and making a mental note not to do business with him in the future. Trent King

[yanks87]

Must be in Washington, if it isn't gold stamped, shiny and sparkly there are very few shops in Oregon that carry "the dying/dead stuff." That being said, the gruff comments sound very much like a couple guys here in Oregon, especially coupled with the over inflated "I've had offers" comment. One of my favorites.

[Throttlesteer]

Originally Posted by yanks87

the over inflated "I've had offers" comment. One of my favorites.

Yep, reminds me of Mr. Shotwell Ruth. Red flag!

[jchcollins]

Even though I'm mostly a vintage collector I have been really digging some of the new tobacco card sized new cards and I still love to open packs.

I don’t hate newer cards, they’re just not my first love. I try to limit the modern I do buy to Cubs players I’m interested in, since I don’t have an unlimited hobby budget.


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[vintagebaseballcardguy]

Originally Posted by jchcollins

I don’t hate newer cards, they’re just not my first love. I try to limit the modern I do buy to Cubs players I’m interested in, since I don’t have an unlimited hobby budget.


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John, I instantly thought of you when I saw this thread!