TPG responsibility + AH Responsibility

[Fred]

We have a few threads going about "authenticated" forged signatures and some of the cards are very expensive.

I'm still a bit confused on what responsibility or guarantee the TPGs provide when their service is used.

As far as cards go, it would seem fairly obvious that if a "fake" is slabbed and discovered then what can/will the TPG company do to rectify the situation?

In the case of these forged signatures on T206 cards (getting a bit pricey now) what responsibility or guarantee do the TPGs (including JSA) provide? In most cases the TPG could just say this is our opinion and we stand by it but when there is proof that the signatures are forgeries, then "we stand by it" goes out the window.

[swarmee]

https://www.psacard.com/about/financialguarantee

[SetBuilder]

Originally Posted by swarmee

https://www.psacard.com/about/financialguarantee

If JSA has the same guarantee, I figure REA & Hunt will get the cards back from their buyers, refund them, and then send them to JSA so they can "buy them back". The authenticator is the one left holding the bag if the submitter of the card disappears.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by SetBuilder

If JSA has the same guarantee, I figure REA & Hunt will get the cards back from their buyers, refund them, and then send them to JSA so they can "buy them back". The authenticator is the one left holding the bag if the submitter of the card disappears.

This is the last part of their guarantee. Not exactly sure what it means but it doesn't look like they will guarantee some sort of signature...Maybe there is another guarantee for autographs?

Guarantee applies only to the grade assigned to the card and does not apply to the authenticity of any autograph nor the grade assigned to any autograph; and the Guarantee does not apply to, and cannot be utilized by, the original submitter (or the original submitter’s agents, employees, affiliates or representatives) of the graded card.



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[SetBuilder]

Originally Posted by Leon

This is the last part of their guarantee. Not exactly sure what it means but it doesn't look like they will guarantee some sort of signature...Maybe there is another guarantee for autographs?

Guarantee applies only to the grade assigned to the card and does not apply to the authenticity of any autograph nor the grade assigned to any autograph; and the Guarantee does not apply to, and cannot be utilized by, the original submitter (or the original submitter’s agents, employees, affiliates or representatives) of the graded card.

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That wording seems to directly contradict the "fails PSA’s authenticity standards" in the 3rd paragraph.

[Snapolit1]

In my next life I'm coming back as a TPG.

If you pay for 15 day service and I get it back to you in a month, who cares. Screw you.

If you pay me to put a card in a holder and I do it poorly and the card is swimming around crooked, who cares. Screw you.

If you pay me to authenticate an autograph and I get snooked by some dude living in his mothers' basement with a few sharpee pens, who cares. Screw you.

And I have so many people lined up out the door for this wonderful service and I can barely deal with them.

God bless America.

[Fred]

Originally Posted by Leon

This is the last part of their guarantee. Not exactly sure what it means but it doesn't look like they will guarantee some sort of signature...Maybe there is another guarantee for autographs?

Guarantee applies only to the grade assigned to the card and does not apply to the authenticity of any autograph nor the grade assigned to any autograph; and the Guarantee does not apply to, and cannot be utilized by, the original submitter (or the original submitter’s agents, employees, affiliates or representatives) of the graded card.



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Leon, in this case there is definite proof that the signatures are forgeries. If there was no proof, only speculation, then I could see the TPG saying "we stand by our opinion" but in this case, the opinion is PROVEN to be incorrect.

I would hope that the TPGs would bend over backwards to protect their service because at this time, the signature authenticator is looking pretty bad....

Drawing attention to this can only do the hobbyists good by opening their eyes to the possibility of being scammed and being vigilant in their collecting so that they are aware there are assholes out there looking to screw them over.

[swarmee]

Originally Posted by Leon

This is the last part of their guarantee. Not exactly sure what it means but it doesn't look like they will guarantee some sort of signature...Maybe there is another guarantee for autographs?

Yes, this is their card guarantee. My guess is this clause applies to the 1998-present pack pulled cards that are not evaluated for autograph authenticity because they came directly from the manufacturer signed. PSA does not currently require that those autographs go through PSA/DNA in order to grade the card, since the card company is already certifying the autograph as authentic.

[bounce]

Originally Posted by Leon

This is the last part of their guarantee. Not exactly sure what it means but it doesn't look like they will guarantee some sort of signature...Maybe there is another guarantee for autographs?

Guarantee applies only to the grade assigned to the card and does not apply to the authenticity of any autograph nor the grade assigned to any autograph; and the Guarantee does not apply to, and cannot be utilized by, the original submitter (or the original submitter’s agents, employees, affiliates or representatives) of the graded card.

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I think it's highly unlikely that any TPA is going to refund the original purchase price of the item for autographs. They gave an opinion, in these instances SGC slabbed and JSA agreed with authenticity via certificate.

Neither one of them have any responsibility related to the original purchase price of the item PRIOR to encapsulation/authentication, though.

Yes, I suspect the recent buyers will send them back to the auction houses, who in turn will need to deal with the consignors, who then in turn need to return to who they purchased from, etc etc etc.

TPAs are probably only on the hook for the grading fee to whoever submitted it.

[Johnny630]

TPG's will never be held accountable becasue they're only rendering a opinion. It's up to the buyer to respect their opinion or not. I chose for the most part not to.

[Stampsfan]

Originally Posted by bounce

I think it's highly unlikely that any TPA is going to refund the original purchase price of the item for autographs. They gave an opinion, in these instances SGC slabbed and JSA agreed with authenticity via certificate.

Then honestly, what the hell are we paying for with these companies? Sounds like buying a warranty for a TV or a car, but never being able to use that warranty for anything.

Opinions are like a$$holes... everyone has one.

[vintagebaseballcardguy]

All of the complaining about TPGs not meeting their deadlines, slabbing fake autos, giving preferential grades to big time submitters, etc. When the smoke clears, collectors will keep on giving them their money. Nothing changes. Depressing...

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[Fred]

Just to add on -

Someone made a good point in one of the forged signature threads.

After the AH are notified, should they be responsible for notifying the buyers and investigating the consignor? I would think so.

[vintagebaseballcardguy]

At what point are the authenticators themselves investigated?

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