Did I buy a Fake Marquard Signed T206?

[Marslife]

Hey Fellas!

need some help. I am working on a Marquard back run and have the cards displayed nicely on my office wall in a frame. I thought a signed T206 would be an awesome addition to the run with the auto being the center piece.

I paid up ($1500) for a real nice dark signed T206 in the last Clean Sweep auction. has a LOA from JSA (picture below) so I bid up on it. Card came here with the LOA, I turned around and dropped another $150 with shipping to SGC to get the card slabbed. I also figured what the hell... get the sig authenticated, card graded and slab it up so I can add it to the wall frame....

I added a copy of the JSA LOA with the order form, and specifially wrote on the form "PLEASE ENCAPSULATE!"

Card came back the same way I sent it raw and add insult to injury, described as "not a genuine example."

reasons stated:

*sizing of letters inconsistent
*letter shape and or formation irregular
*drawn slowly with hesitation and/or pen lifts...

OUCH!

I know there are some T206 signed marquard experts out there. what do you think. If I want is slabbed should I send it to PSA for the tie breaker?

Help!

Thanks!!

Clifford Franklin


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[bigfish]

Looks good to me

[x2drich2000]

Unfortunately, autograph authentication is not an exact science. A board members with far more knowledge i'm sure will chime in, but in the mean time, have a look at this site for comparisons: http://www.signedt206.com/how-many-s...arquards-exist

[ccre]

I am no expert in this area. I will say I bid on this card as well but just couldn't bid it up too much because I just didn't have a good feeling about the authenticity. That sure stinks. I hope it plays out ok for you on the end.

[Republicaninmass]

It looks close, but something just looks off to me. I'd try at Beckett or PSA, or just be happy with the JSA letter. I had a bunch of Clean Sweep cards fail from a large lot and they told me "I hope the rest of the cards make up for it"

[Fred]

Cliff,

What's unfortunate is that one TPAuth said "ok" another said "not ok". Unfortunately, if you ever want to sell it then the right thing would be to disclose what was told to you by both.

Spence is supposed to be an authority on autos but I'd venture to guess he's made the wrong assessment (good auto but would not authenticate or authenticated a bogus auto) a few times. Since it's a Spence cert, some people may swear by it.

Looking at it, I wouldn't want to make a decision on it. Personally, I'd rather have a T206 signed with a fountain pen.

What truly sucks is that you now own it and may never get the full enjoyment out of it because one TPAuth said they wouldn't cert it (even though it could be authentic).

I'd see if Spence uses a TPAuth that encapsulates because if that company won't cert/encapsulate it, then that would be very odd.

Good luck - and again, this really sucks because now you'll forever be doubting something that you really thought was special.

[SetBuilder]

I found another card, auctioned off in 2017 at Sig auctions, with the signature in almost exactly the same spot, with the same angle and starting/ending position. Very suspicious. Take a look: http://auction.sigauctions.com/rube_...-lot62562.aspx.

[theshleps]

Originally Posted by SetBuilder

I found another card, auctioned off in 2017 at Sig auctions, with the signature in almost exactly the same spot, with the same angle and starting/ending position. Very suspicious. Take a look: http://auction.sigauctions.com/rube_...-lot62562.aspx.

I own that one from sig auctions and also this one which is somewhat similar. I believe I had both recently authenticated. I do not expect authenticators to be 100% but this finding is disturbing. What do you folks think of these 2?? If you look at all the ones Paul posted on T206 collector maybe half a dozen fit the pattern to some extent
Marquard 1909 T-206 A-2 Sweet Caporal.jpg

Marquard 1909 T-206 B-1 sweet caporal 350.jpg

[HOF Auto Rookies]

Looks spot on to me

[SetBuilder]

Originally Posted by HOF Auto Rookies

Looks spot on to me

Yes, literally spot on.

[HOF Auto Rookies]

Originally Posted by SetBuilder

Yes, literally spot on.

Didn't see your original post of the other card but I still believe it's authentic and a great example.

[SetBuilder]

Originally Posted by HOF Auto Rookies

Didn't see your original post of the other card but I still believe it's authentic and a great example.

Too weird of a coincidence for me.

From this gallery, I can see that Marquard started his signatures at random places. Never on the same spot. http://www.signedt206.com/how-many-s...rquards-exist/

I could maybe live with it if the pen was the same, but two different types of pens indicate two different signings at different times. Very unlikely that he starts the signature on the same exact spot and on the same exact angle.

[HOF Auto Rookies]

Originally Posted by SetBuilder

Too weird of a coincidence for me.



From this gallery, I can see that Marquard started his signatures at random places. Never on the same spot. http://www.signedt206.com/how-many-s...rquards-exist/



I could maybe live with it if the pen was the same, but two different types of pens indicate two different signings at different times. Very unlikely that he starts the signature on the same exact spot and on the same exact angle.

He basically had 3 different autograph spots on his T cards. Rube stacked over Marquard, fitting the whole signature horizontally and then at that steep angle. Sometimes rarely vertically. A lot of his signatures posted on Paul's site show this and the ones I have owned as well.

[SetBuilder]

Larger images for reference...

[gregr2]

Nice research, well done. Unfortunate for the OP though.


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[HOF Auto Rookies]

Originally Posted by gregr2

Nice research, well done. Unfortunate for the OP though.


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That's why I love this site, so much can be uncovered. I wonder if the AH would take a refund or a credit. Wonder what Spence will think about this...

[Bpm0014]

Wow is that great research!!

[gregr2]

Originally Posted by HOF Auto Rookies

That's why I love this site, so much can be uncovered. I wonder if the AH would take a refund or a credit. Wonder what Spence will think about this...

I would reach back to both with some questions.


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[Republicaninmass]

Wow, I hate to go against a professional, but this really takes the cake.

Always err on the side of caution. I'm the only one who sees at least 2 stops and starts ?

[RedsFan1941]

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass

Always err on the side of caution. I'm the only one who sees at least 2 stops and starts ?

good catch

[x2drich2000]

Awesome research, I would definitely be reaching out to both demanding a refund.

As an FYI, from CS website: "Unless noted, Clean Sweep Auctions only sells original items. We completely stand behind the authenticity of every item we sell. We will provide Letters of Authenticity from Clean Sweep Auctions upon request for all autographed items priced at $30 or more. Clean Sweep Auctions uses among the strictest standards in the industry."

Let us know how things turn out.