Printing press plates for cards

[Snapolit1]

What's up with these? Legit? I am guessing they are not legit, or have low demand, based on the relatively low prices people ask for them.

Here's one example:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-1-BABE-RUT...3D361938482720

[HOF Auto Rookies]

I believe those are from the Conlon set. Should be legit

[packs]

Shouldn't the image be reversed?

[JustinD]

most plates are far more inexpensive.

A reasonable price for those would be under 15 bucks.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by packs

Shouldn't the image be reversed?

Really depends on how there were printed. They can be either way.

[JustinD]

Originally Posted by packs

Shouldn't the image be reversed?

Most would think that, but the answer is no.

this is a snipped quote explaining offset better than I can briefly:

"Most commercial printers nowadays use a technique called offset printing. Instead of the printing plate directly applying the ink to the paper, the plate transfers the ink to a rubber cylinder which in turn applies the ink to the paper. So instead of pressing the plate down on the paper to print the card, three cylinders roll along to do the printing. One cylinder has the print plates, one transfers the ink to the paper and a third pushes along the paper through the press. This method is the cheapest way to produce a large number of high quality images. The plate doesn't wear out as fast because it's not coming in contact with the paper and the rubber cylinder makes better contact with the paper than a metal cylinder ever would.

So why is the press plate not reversed? Well, it's true that when transferring the ink to the paper the image has to be reversed so it prints properly, but the image is reversed when the plate transfers the ink to the offset cylinder. If the image was reversed on the press plate it would be correct on the offset cylinder and when the ink transferred to the paper it would be reversed again."

Ben is correct also that some plates are still reversed if they use a direct printing process like direct litho. Most modern cards now are offset though for cost savings.

[Mark70Z]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

What's up with these? Legit? I am guessing they are not legit, or have low demand, based on the relatively low prices people ask for them.

I think it's legit. I don't think there is much demand for more of the modern printing plates, but I'm sure there are collectors who desire them. Also, I'm no expert, but there is also more than one printing plate per card.

Now, for more of the vintage variety I'd be interested in the printing plates. The only one's that I have seen are some examples from the '62 Topps set. It's likely most of them were just reused for multiple cards or simply trashed. Nowadays they are inserted in the packs.

[JustinD]

Originally Posted by Mark70Z

I think it's legit. I don't think there is much demand for more of the modern printing plates, but I'm sure there are collectors who desire them. Also, I'm no expert, but there is also more than one printing plate per card.

Now, for more of the vintage variety I'd be interested in the printing plates. The only one's that I have seen are some examples from the '62 Topps set. It's likely most of them were just reused for multiple cards or simply trashed. Nowadays they are inserted in the packs.

those 62's do seem to be the only ones that pop up for vintage.

I have a few and I am up in the air as to if they are real or not.

[Snapolit1]

Similar but I assume entirely different are the card negatives. Probstein must have some pipeline for those. . . . his list on and on . . . Wacky Packs, Babe Ruth, whatever you need.

http://stores.ebay.com/probstein123/...&_nkw=negative

[aelefson]

The 1962 ones are definitely real. In the early 1990s a dealer found nearly the entire set on aluminum plates. They offered most of them in SCD at the time. I think I bought a checklist or two as they were the cheapest. I do not have them any longer unfortunately.

Alan

[Mark70Z]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Similar but I assume entirely different are the card negatives. Probstein must have some pipeline for those. . . . his list on and on . . . Wacky Packs, Babe Ruth, whatever you need.

Steve,

Correct; the negative (color transparency) are used to make the card, but totally different than the printing plates.

I'm sure the majority, if not all, were from the Topps Vault. Also, I'm sure many are on consignment. In 1989 Topps started to open their "vault" and selling these type of items. There was a huge auction put on by Guernsey auction house that sold a ton of these type items. Topps has been selling the vault stuff ever since.

Now some of the items that are out there I'm sure were acquired by other means, like backdoored out, or dumpster divers, etc.

[Mark70Z]

Originally Posted by JustinD

those 62's do seem to be the only ones that pop up for vintage.

I have a few and I am up in the air as to if they are real or not.

Like Alan stated the '62 Topps plates are definitely the real deal.

[JustinD]

Originally Posted by Mark70Z

Like Alan stated the '62 Topps plates are definitely the real deal.

Cool, I picked up a handful about 10 years ago on a whim.

Was not familiar with how they surfaced.

[Mark70Z]

Originally Posted by JustinD

Cool, I picked up a handful about 10 years ago on a whim.

Was not familiar with how they surfaced.

Would love to see your examples.

I haven't seen the Topps Brooks Robinson card #45 before so hoping that someday it will surface if not for sale, at least to see. I also hope that Topps may still have more examples, from different years, in their vault.

[Tripredacus]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

What's up with these? Legit? I am guessing they are not legit, or have low demand, based on the relatively low prices people ask for them.

Here's one example:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-1-BABE-RUT...3D361938482720

Regarding this particular auction, this is one of perhaps 2 sellers that have been selling various front and back plates of 90s and early 2000s sets for years now. I say perhaps 2 because there is one ebay seller I used to buy Pacific hockey plates from a long time ago, but their account no longer exists, then they have a new ebay account now. I had posted about this on HobbyInsider with specifics, I will find that later and put it here. I do not recall if this cardmax1 is the new account or is a different seller.

The range of plates sold are always out of print or defunct manufacturers, or specifically from sets that are not popular. Things like Pacific hockey and football, Pro Line, Pro Set 1994 football, Conlon baseball (just the Babe Ruth set) and the like. Sometimes non-sports or other sports I am not familiar with.

The plates themselves are always normal, not reverse image. They have the rounded corners like you would see in plates released in retail Topps or Upper Deck products. They do not have anything on the back. And strangely, they are nearly all the "black" plate and not in the 4 colors that Topps, UD or Panini plates are released as.

So for myself, I am never quite certain how legit these are, other than I have not seen any duplicates appear. I do know that the Pacific plates for hockey only appeared after the Pacific bankruptcy auction, at the same time the back-stock of non-serial numbered Pacific cards came to Ebay. While those un-numbered cards disappeared quite fast, these random plates have been sold steadily for over 10 years now.

But it became interesting that in recent years it hasn't just been Pacific plates. The one or two sellers I know that sold these plates always had Pacific ones up until just recently, say 4 years ago when random football ones started being sold instead, and then 1-2 years ago the Conlon Babe Ruth plates appeared.

Nothing ever going for a large amount of money, but for myself it is the only reason I have the dozen or so I do have. They are cheap enough that at $1-5 if they aren't real it isn't a big loss. I think my average price paid for the ones I have is $3.

[Leon]

At some price point it seems almost everything is collectible. I confess I have bought a cut out before!! (as for the printing plates, I am not sure)

Originally Posted by Tripredacus

Regarding this particular auction, this is one of perhaps 2 sellers that have been selling various front and back plates of 90s and early 2000s sets for years now. I say perhaps 2 because there is one ebay seller I used to buy Pacific hockey plates from a long time ago, but their account no longer exists, then they have a new ebay account now. I had posted about this on HobbyInsider with specifics, I will find that later and put it here. I do not recall if this cardmax1 is the new account or is a different seller.

The range of plates sold are always out of print or defunct manufacturers, or specifically from sets that are not popular. Things like Pacific hockey and football, Pro Line, Pro Set 1994 football, Conlon baseball (just the Babe Ruth set) and the like. Sometimes non-sports or other sports I am not familiar with.

The plates themselves are always normal, not reverse image. They have the rounded corners like you would see in plates released in retail Topps or Upper Deck products. They do not have anything on the back. And strangely, they are nearly all the "black" plate and not in the 4 colors that Topps, UD or Panini plates are released as.

So for myself, I am never quite certain how legit these are, other than I have not seen any duplicates appear. I do know that the Pacific plates for hockey only appeared after the Pacific bankruptcy auction, at the same time the back-stock of non-serial numbered Pacific cards came to Ebay. While those un-numbered cards disappeared quite fast, these random plates have been sold steadily for over 10 years now.

But it became interesting that in recent years it hasn't just been Pacific plates. The one or two sellers I know that sold these plates always had Pacific ones up until just recently, say 4 years ago when random football ones started being sold instead, and then 1-2 years ago the Conlon Babe Ruth plates appeared.

Nothing ever going for a large amount of money, but for myself it is the only reason I have the dozen or so I do have. They are cheap enough that at $1-5 if they aren't real it isn't a big loss. I think my average price paid for the ones I have is $3.

[JustinD]

Originally Posted by Leon

At some price point it seems almost everything is collectible. I confess I have bought a cut out before!! (as for the printing plates, I am not sure)

I've gone opposite, never done a cut-out but have grabbed quite a few plates as I think they have a bit of historical significance as an item that created the card. I will not pay more than 20 bucks under usual circumstances and they are super affordable.

[Tripredacus]

Here is the information I posted a couple years ago on another forum. The "real names" are retained only for the reason that at the time, an Ebay seller had appeared on ebay selling the same types of these plates as a previous one, and it had turned out these people had different names but were in the same town. This was not to say that there were any complaints about the plates themselves or of the sellers. It was just an interesting discovery.

They show up in bunches, usually meaning one set at a time. The full set is not available and the cards are not all star players either. Both front and back plates have been known to appear during these flaps.

Sets of auctions I won from this seller

(nyccardvault)
1998 Pacific: July 2014
2003 Pacific: March 2014
2004 Pacific: November 2013
2001 Pacific: October 2013

Sets of auctions I won from another (gbahead)
1998 Pacific Omega: February 2010
1999 Dynagon Ice: January 2010
2001 Vanguard: September 2008

gbahead is aka Kevin Cheng from Forest Hills/Flushing NY.
nyccardvault is aka Law Kin is from Forest Hills, NY.

All the above information I got from my saved emails.

The sets listed are for hockey. To my recollection, gbahead only sold hockey plates. Nyccardvault had hockey, football and Babe Ruth Conlon plates. Also perhaps others like I mentioned, but I was not really tracking what they had.

EDIT: I put "real names" in quotes because these were the names shown on the paypal/ebay emails. Since there is no identity verification on Paypal, and both sellers were from the same town, it cannot be confirmed if these are truly their real names. They may well be correct, but history has shown that ebay sellers often do sometimes use fake names or aliases.

[Mark70Z]

Originally Posted by Leon

At some price point it seems almost everything is collectible. I confess I have bought a cut out before!! (as for the printing plates, I am not sure)

Attached is my one and only "relatively" vintage printing plate. I do have a few other modern ones from when I hit a dry spell in collecting.

Uh...oh. I've got a printing plate AND have purchased cutouts. I'm hopeless...

[steve B]

A couple plates, not lithography, but one of the forms of typography. Thick metal around 1/16 -1/8 mounted to a wood block. If I remember it right they're from McCarthy postcards.

Steve B

[Mark70Z]

Originally Posted by steve B

A couple plates, not lithography, but one of the forms of typography. Thick metal around 1/16 -1/8 mounted to a wood block. If I remember it right they're from McCarthy postcards.

Steve B

Steve,

Those are very cool! Never seen this type of item for cards before. Thanks for sharing.

[JustinD]

Originally Posted by Tripredacus

Nothing ever going for a large amount of money, but for myself it is the only reason I have the dozen or so I do have. They are cheap enough that at $1-5 if they aren't real it isn't a big loss. I think my average price paid for the ones I have is $3.

I think you can put your concerns at ease as the cost to fake anything like this would far exceed the selling price they are getting. There are better chances in my mind of finding a UFO in my garage than these being fake.

Pacific and conlons and so little collected that it makes perfect sense that any plates would be a close out purchase.