PSA versus SGC

[CardMD]

I have not had good luck crossing my SGC to PSA ( I know, I know, but the card not the grade!!). I wanted to switch them to PSA mostly for uniform look (OCD) but also for possible resale value as PSA tends to sell for more. I first attempted to send in my SCG slabs for crossover and didn't have any success (returned below minimum grade - as I specified my lowest acceptable grade was a half point below the SGC grade).

So I then sent in some different cards but cracked them out this time and sent in raw. All of them came back one full grade lower and two were marked trimmed despite being previously slabbed by SGC. Now, I know from many different threads that both companies make errors but man PSA is being harsh.

My question is, what do you guys recommend. Taking the lower PSA grade or re-crack out and putting it back into SGC for the higher grade. None of the cards are very high value low hundreds at the most so the fees really begin to add up for these low value cards. Also, if you send in the card raw with the previous SGC paper from the case, you have to pay for full regrade again, right?

Once specific example I wanted to show you. It is a T206 Polar Bear Lajoie with bat that was graded SGC 60/5 that I cracked (case was previously damaged) and submitted and PSA only gave it a 3!! That is a two grade discrepancy. I just looked at the pop report and PSA has not even given a PSA 5 out yet, so I am not sure if that is the reason for the low grade. There is heavy tobacco staining on front. What do you guys suggest? Thanks

Aaron

[bnorth]

Both companies grade cards very differently. That needs to be taken into account before crossing over.

I would suggest collecting raw cards.

[ullmandds]

That is insane! It's as if PSA has gone 180° On the way they grade vintage. It used to be you could easily find dozens upon dozens of over graded PSA cards. And now it seems they are grading extremely harshly as if to reward those who graded early. Uniformity of product is very important to me and PSA has not demonstrated that over the years .

[mark evans]

The reason for the varied grades is the inherent subjectivity in grading. Those seeking objective justifications, I think, will be disappointed.

[Beatles Guy]

It's a beauty regardless. I would guess the staining and off center back would be the reason for the grade, but that's pretty harsh considering the front centering and corners.

[4815162342]

For cards as plentiful as T206s, why crossover? Just buy the card in the slab of your choice.

Maybe it's just the scan, but did those corners get softer during the crossover?

[CardMD]

No. Corners look crisper in person than on psa scan.

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[CardMD]

Here is another example of a SGC 60/5 flipped to PSA 4.

[JohnP0621]

It looks like SGC was very generous on the Lajoie and PSA was a bit harsh. If I didn't know that you crossed the Waddell I would accept either grade. I think that set yourself up for disappointment by submitting the cards for a cross over and putting a lower grade as acceptable. I have only submitted a few cards for cross over and put the same grade. If it does not cross over I keep the card in the original holder with the original grade. You may not get the original grade if you send it back to SGC. Just my 2 cents.

John P

[CardMD]

These were cracked out because I thought psa graded other companies slabs harsher. I wanted what I thought was an unbiased opinion.

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[bobbyw8469]

Like someone else said, SGC was EXTREMELY generous giving the Lajoie a '5' with the staining it had. The Waddell is a coin flip card.

[1880nonsports]

first card around vg - vg/x and second card about x - generally with either company. Both grade DIFFERENTLY in some key areas and there's a lack of consistency in all the TPG's because of the elements described here on earlier threads ad nauseum. As I have OCD which in my day was the simpler OMG - to me the answer would seem obvious - all my graded cards are graded by the same company - AND - like Pete I look for some basic consistency over the years. I will admit lately I'm a little scared by SCD - it appears they've not held firm on a steady course but not enough evidence for me yet.
In any event, the grade a TPG puts on a card except with the high grade registry graded cards DOESN'T CHANGE the card. It's all about YOUR perception and current/future intent - or when buying/selling to determine a market range.

[Touch'EmAll]

More times than not you lose on crossover from SGC to PSA. Not to say I haven't had some make it, but its rare. You stand a better chance at crack and re-submit, but its a gutsy move - only try with high end for the grade SGC.

Pay a little lower for SGC to begin with, be happy with the lower price, keep it in the SGC slab. Always try to look for high end for the grade SGC. Steer clear of low end for the grade anything SGC or PSA.

Recently I have picked up a few good looking SGC 86's with better than average centering and very strong sharp corners. I may crack and send to PSA when the time strikes me, but they are under $200. cards. If they get a PSA 7, that will be ok, but decent chance of PSA 7.5 or even 8.

I have always wondered - does PSA keep pictures of SGC crossover attempts for their future records? I bet a given card may have been tried multiple times. Or not? Any luck from anyone on the second crossover attempt?

[Luke]

The grading standards that the two companies use right now is just different. An SGC 60 is going to be a PSA 3.5 or 4 in most cases.

People pay more for the same grade in a PSA holder, but it's not just because of the registry or anything else. An average SGC 60 is going to be a much weaker than the average PSA 5 (under current grading standards).

In my opinion it doesn't make one company better than the other, and doesn't mean one of them is making mistakes. They just use slightly different grading scales.

[sniffy5]

PSA has carved out a snobbish marketing ploy that has sadly worked out for them, lending to the impression that they are the standard bearers in the hobby. Their elitist approach has worked, however much I despise it. And despite many mass submitters they have in their pockets. But Bottom lines don't lie...0Until the Feds crack down, which they should have done on the very first, very famous, and knowingly inaccurate submission grade...

[orly57]

Originally Posted by LukeLyon

The grading standards that the two companies use right now is just different. An SGC 60 is going to be a PSA 3.5 or 4 in most cases.

People pay more for the same grade in a PSA holder, but it's not just because of the registry or anything else. An average SGC 60 is going to be a much weaker than the average PSA 5 (under current grading standards).

In my opinion it doesn't make one company better than the other, and doesn't mean one of them is making mistakes. They just use slightly different grading scales.

I respectfully disagree. SGC can be impossibly tough. This idea that an sgc card will be graded lower by psa is not necessarily true. It is true on crossovers, where they arrogantly and methodically grade it liwer or cry "trimmed" in efforts to belittle the competition. Here is my ruth sgc 4 on the right and a psa 5 on the left. And before you ask, the back on my 4 is CLEAN

[Dippydub]

Hey everyone, new to this and thought this might be a good thread to ask the question, since i can't even seem to figure out how to start a new thread!

I'm new to grading and looking a different services (PSA SGC, BGS). What i'm confused about is how you pay for the "level", If you don't know the value of a card.

Lets assume i going with PSA, here are my questions for them:

1. There are a lot of fakes as well as reprints. If the card appears to be in great condition (i.e. grade 7+) how do you submit the value of the card when you aren’t even sure if it’s even a legitimate card? (That's the whole point in sending it in).

2. If you submit a rough estimate of, say grade 8 for example, and put a value down of $1500, which costs you $45 to submit, but the card comes back graded as a 9+ and is actually valued at $6k, would you get charged the higher fee of $250, which is what it would have cost to submit a card at that value tier? Subsequently if it grades out lower or as a fake/reprint, would you get charged the lowest fee of $18?

I’m trying to understand how spending about $200 getting two cards graded, that could turn out to be a fake or reprint, would be worth it if you don’t get a reduced cost.


Sorry for the long post. Any info is GREATLY appreciated.

[bnorth]

The price you use when submitting the card is the raw replacement value. At least that is what I do.

[Dippydub]

Thank you to everyone's help. I understand the process now. Just wish they explained it as well as you guys did on their websites!

[x2drich2000]

Hello Dibbydub,

First off, welcome to the board! You've found a great place to ask questions. If you are not sure if a prewar card is authentic or not, I would first suggest just posting a scan of the card here. You'll get good feedback and could save yourself quite a few bucks. As far as what level to submit the card under, I would underestimate what you think the card will grade at, especially since this is your first time submitting. Think of it more as what you would want to replace the card. If you get lucky enough to get a higher grade than expected and the value increases exponentially as a result, you should be happy to pay the higher fee if they charge you for it. Along the same lines, be happy when you pay more taxes, it just means you made more money.

DJ

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by x2drich2000

If you are not sure if a prewar card is authentic or not, I would first suggest just posting a scan of the card here.

Yes, this.

And if it's a postwar card, just post on the postwar side for opinions.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by Dippydub

Hey everyone, new to this and thought this might be a good thread to ask the question, since i can't even seem to figure out how to start a new thread!

I'm new to grading and looking a different services (PSA SGC, BGS). What i'm confused about is how you pay for the "level", If you don't know the value of a card.

Lets assume i going with PSA, here are my questions for them:

1. There are a lot of fakes as well as reprints. If the card appears to be in great condition (i.e. grade 7+) how do you submit the value of the card when you aren’t even sure if it’s even a legitimate card? (That's the whole point in sending it in).

2. If you submit a rough estimate of, say grade 8 for example, and put a value down of $1500, which costs you $45 to submit, but the card comes back graded as a 9+ and is actually valued at $6k, would you get charged the higher fee of $250, which is what it would have cost to submit a card at that value tier? Subsequently if it grades out lower or as a fake/reprint, would you get charged the lowest fee of $18?

I’m trying to understand how spending about $200 getting two cards graded, that could turn out to be a fake or reprint, would be worth it if you don’t get a reduced cost.


Sorry for the long post. Any info is GREATLY appreciated.

People misunderstand this subject a LOT. You are supposed to be declaring the amount you would want to be made whole if the card were lost or somehow damaged. This declaration is for insurance purposes when in the possession of PSA.

Mind you if you radically under-declare you will get contacted explaining that you can't circumvent their fees that way, but why would you want to take that risk in the first place.

What you AREN'T trying to do is predict the future value after grading.

[robw1959]

Just crack them out and send them back to SGC with the original broken holder and have them reholder it for you. That way you get the original grades back and end up only paying $5 per card plus shipping. I've had the same experiences with both companies, and have done that a bunch of times with no issues whatsoever on the part of either company. I always got my original grade back in a new holder with no questions asked.

[toledo_mudhen]

Having always been a SGC kinda guy - I have lots of crossover from PSA to SGC experience. I have always sent cards in original slab and have set "minimum" requirements for crossover grade. Over the course of several years I would say my crossover from PSA to SGC has been somewhere around a 70% success rate.

Over the last year or so I have determined that PSA cards with the "Hologram" slabs (frontside PSA Holo on Flip) have done better than 70% (maybe around 90ish percent)

Just got these back this week from SGC -

This one was submitted as cross from PSA 7 (1st gen holo on flip) to minimum SGC 84. Result was "Did not Meet Minimum" (crap - still scratchin my head a bit on this one)



This one was submitted as cross from PSA 7 (1st gen holo on flip) to minimum SGC 84



This one was submitted as cross from BGS 7 to minimum SGC 86 (actually thought it had shot at 88)



This one was submitted as cross from PSA 7 (1st gen PSA Holo on flip) to minimum SGC 84 (wasn't real sure it would meet minimum when sent)



This one was submitted as cross from PSA 8 (1st gen PSA Holo on flip) to minimum SGC 88 (really thought this one had legit shot at a 92)

[swarmee]

Originally Posted by robw1959

Just crack them out and send them back to SGC with the original broken holder and have them reholder it for you. That way you get the original grades back and end up only paying $5 per card plus shipping. I've had the same experiences with both companies, and have done that a bunch of times with no issues whatsoever on the part of either company. I always got my original grade back in a new holder with no questions asked.

This seems like a major liability. What's to stop you from sending in a raw VG card with a VG-EX+ label and asking them to "reholder" it for you. Seems ripe for fraud.

[Buster#1]

PSA cards are graded on who knows what criteria
Back in the day they gave unfair high grades to friends and good customers.
I bought a bulk of cards from a friend that were all PSA graded ...he hated PSA and had them crossed to sgc many came back from sgc lower.....20 or so...
He kept buying PSA graded cards in the same set and finally became the number one guy in the sgc registry for that set.
I was fortunate enough to get a good amount of them...half of the collection.
I had a big time dealer try to cross them
They came back in lower grades.
We are talking about cards in the 400 dollar range for commons and tens of thousands for hof's.
They said the same shit....trimmed and pointed out certain defects...but they were all graded 8s buy them.
U make your own decision.
PSA is a joke.


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[Buster#1]

Stupid me...
I wanted to get them on the PSA registry
Cost me big bucks

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[Buster#1]

U will never have any success crossing vintage cards w psa... they know the population and will not help u even if the cards are worthy....even if they were once graded an 8 by them, they will screw u with a 7 on the way back or a 6.5...depending on what teenager they have grading your investment

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[Buster#1]

I have collected cards my whole life, as a kid i just loved old cards because i was a athlete and read history
I never knew shit about card grading when i was young and really didn't learn much about it until the last few years when i jumped in again
I want to apologize to anyone that i offended.
I have studied thousands of cards in the last few yrs.
Almost all 33 goudeys
Sports kings, baseball and Indian cards all 1933.
I darn near had the whole 33 goudey baseball set....60 cards short...had 2 ruth's and foxx and vance, bengough all in psa 8s or sgc 88s
I only collect 8s or 88s.
I have a shit ton of Indian cards in 88s and 36 sports kings in psa 8 and 3 in 88s
I can honestly say in my heart after looking at all of my stuff that psa 8s are better than sgc 88s....as far as quality.
Thats why they are less expensive.
There are exceptions and when there is the sgc fetches a fair price.
PSA cards are superior to sgc without a doubt in my opinion not even close.
People say sgc rivals PSA in pre war cards..
Not my experience at all.
Here and there....maybe.
But, honestly I haven't experienced that yet
PSA cards are far better.

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[Buster#1]

In the early days PSA was very very sketchy
Many bad grades.
Now....they r tough
U had better have a perfect card to get an 8 now.
They were always tough on ruths and gehrigs and other superstars but easy on the crappy players, but not anymore.
I would never own an sgc over a PSA in same grade if i had the choice

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[Buster#1]

If u just want to have a cool card
Sgc is the way
If u want a cool card and want to make a decent return on your investment
PSA is the way to operate

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[Buster#1]

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