Is the Cobb, Red Cross Type 1 and Coupon T213 ........

[Joshchisox08]

I'm sure that it has been in other forums and discussed quite a bit on here I'm just looking for a tally here.

Is the Cobb, Red Cross Type 1 and Coupon T213 back considered apart of the unique backs that are part of the t206 collection ??????

Here's all the backs that I've found to be in from other people and articles I've read:

1 Ty Cobb Assorted Factory 33, 4th Dist. NC
2 Old Mill (Southern League) Overprint(s) Assorted Factory 649, 1st Dist. NY
3 Old Mill (Southern League) Brown
4 Lenox (brown) Assorted Factory 30, 2nd Dist. NY
5 Broad Leaf 460 Factory 25, 2nd Dist. VA
6 Drum 350 Factory 25, 2nd Dist. VA
7 Uzit Assorted Factory 30, 2nd Dist. NY
8 Hindu (red) Assorted Factory 649, 1st Dist. NY
9 Lenox (black) Assorted Factory 30, 2nd Dist. NY
10 Red Cross Type 1 **
11 Broad Leaf 350 Factory 25, 2nd Dist. VA
12 Blank Back N/A N/A
13 Coupon Type 1 T213-1 T213-1
14 Carolina Brights Assorted Factory 25, 2nd Dist. VA
15 Piedmont 350-460 Factory 42, 4th Dist. NC
16 American Beauty 460 Factory 42, 4th Dist. NC
17 Hindu (brown) Assorted Factory 649, 1st Dist. NY
18 American Beauty (No Frame) 350 N/A
19 Sovereign 460 Factory 25, 2nd Dist. VA
20 Cycle 460 Factory 25, 2nd Dist. VA
21 Tolstoi Assorted Factory 30, 2nd Dist. NY
22 Sweet Caporal 350-460 Factory 25, 2nd Dist. VA
23 El Principe De Gales Assorted Factory 17, 2nd Dist. VA
24 American Beauty (Frame) 350 Factory 25, 2nd Dist. VA
25 Sovereign 350 (Apple Green) Factory 25, 2nd Dist. VA
26 Sweet Caporal (overprint) 350-460 Factory 42, 4th Dist. NC
27 Cycle 350 Factory 25, 2nd Dist. VA
28 Old Mill (Southern Leagues) (black) Assorted Factory 25, 2nd Dist. VA
29 Sovereign 150 Factory 25, 2nd Dist. VA
30 Sweet Caporal (overprint) 150 Factory 649, 1st Dist. NY
31 Sweet Caporal (overprint) 350-460 Factory 42, 4th Dist. NC
32 Old Mill Assorted Baseball Subjects
33 Polar Bear Assorted Factory 6, 1st Dist. OH
34 Sovereign 350 (Forrest Green) Forrest Green
35 Sweet Caporal 150 Factory 25, 2nd Dist. VA
36 Sweet Caporal 350-460 Factory 30, 2nd Dist. NY
37 Sweet Caporal 150 Factory 30, 2nd Dist. NY
38 Piedmont 150 Factory 25, 2nd Dist. VA
39 Piedmont 350-460 Factory 25, 2nd Dist. VA
40 Sweet Caporal 350 Factory 25, 2nd Dist. VA
41 Sweet Caporal 350 Factory 30, 2nd Dist. NY
42 Piedmont 350 Factory 25, 2nd Dist. VA

[atx840]

Not officially but some like to include them in back runs

[wolf441]

The Old Mill (Southern League) Overprint(s) Assorted Factory 649, 1st Dist. NY were proven to be fakes.

[wonkaticket]

Originally Posted by wolf441

The Old Mill (Southern League) Overprint(s) Assorted Factory 649, 1st Dist. NY were proven to be fakes.

No just the ones in black ink were forgeries, the few examples in "red" are original scrap items with period printing. They should not be considered a back just a printers scrap.

http://www.robertedwardauctions.com/.../2010/249.html

[wolf441]

Originally Posted by wonkaticket

No just the ones in black ink were forgeries, the few examples in "red" are original scrap items with period printing. They should not be considered a back just a printers scrap.

http://www.robertedwardauctions.com/.../2010/249.html

Thanks for clarifying John! I was only referring to the black ink versions (I had forgot all about the red ones!! )

[Joshchisox08]

Originally Posted by wonkaticket

No just the ones in black ink were forgeries, the few examples in "red" are original scrap items with period printing. They should not be considered a back just a printers scrap.

http://www.robertedwardauctions.com/.../2010/249.html

Thank you both for that clarification. I'm glad to be learning this stuff. How many of you actually consider there to be 41 backs ?

[wolf441]

I go with 39. I don't consider the T213-1 Coupon (though Ted Z makes a compelling case to include it) and the T215-1 Red Cross as part of the T206 set. I call the Cobb Back a T206, but it truthfully it's probably it's own set of 1.

[tedzan]

Scratch the UZIT from your list. The red Cobb is one of 6 "super-prints" T206's. These 6 subjects were NOT printed with the UZIT back.


Speaking about the super-prints, here they are with their very rare 1910 COUPON (T213-1) backs. The 68 cards in this sub-set were printed by American Lithographic (ALC)
and issued circa Spring/Summer 1910......therefore, in my opinion they are T206's. I have yet to hear a logical argument to dissuade me from this premise.


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Furthermore, I strongly feel that the Ty Cobb / TY COBB card should be classified as a T206....since it was printed by ALC and issued circa 1910.





TED Z
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[Leon]

Ted- Unfortunately you can think whatever you want it won't change the facts. The ACC says T213 Coupons were similar to T206. Burdick knew exactly what he was doing and the Coupon cards will always be T213, regardless of what you think.

[Joshchisox08]

Originally Posted by Leon

Ted- Unfortunately you can think whatever you want it won't change the facts. The ACC says T213 Coupons were similar to T206. Burdick knew exactly what he was doing and the Coupon cards will always be T213, regardless of what you think.

I think I may re-evaluate and change the back run total to 39. Finally got a Tolstoi yesterday and it was to get a Sox player I don't have. I know they aren't super rare but the rarest back I have lol.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Joshchisox08

I think I may re-evaluate and change the back run total to 39. Finally got a Tolstoi yesterday and it was to get a Sox player I don't have. I know they aren't super rare but the rarest back I have lol.

I think we always need to be careful in what we say concerning cards being cataloged, manufactured and/or distributed. Until someone does a comprehensive overhaul, which is universally accepted, we have to go by the American Card Catalog for our numbering. I am willing to debate why T213 isn't T206 with reference to the reference (American Card Catalog 1960) . Mr. Burdick clearly states he knows Coupons, Victory's and Red Crosses, (T213, T214, T215) all were similar in design to T206. He always said he felt the catalog should grow and be revised but I am (personally) not in the camp to merge T213, T214 or T215 into T206.

ps...Ty Cobb was listed as a T206 back brand and I am certainly willing to go along with that one, from what we know today.

[ullmandds]

red hindu's aren't mentioned? maybe they are not t206's?

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by Leon

I think we always need to be careful in what we say concerning cards being cataloged, manufactured and/or distributed. Until someone does a comprehensive overhaul, which is universally accepted, we have to go by the American Card Catalog for our numbering. I am willing to debate why T213 isn't T206 with reference to the reference (American Card Catalog 1960) . Mr. Burdick clearly states he knows Coupons, Victory's and Red Crosses, (T213, T214, T215) all were similar in design to T206. He always said he felt the catalog should grow and be revised but I am (personally) not in the camp to merge T213, T214 or T215 into T206.

ps...Ty Cobb was listed as a T206 back brand and I am certainly willing to go along with that one, from what we know today.

Contrary to what some of you think, I greatly appreciate Jeff Burdick's tremendous accomplishments. Not only in the Sportscard field, but especially in the Non-Sports category.
I do not fault him for incorrectly classifying the 1910 "COUPON" issue. As is evident in Leon's excerpt, Burdick's timeline of this COUPON issue is wrong (see red-circled dates
on below insert). Collaborative research on this forum has proven that the T213-1 set of cards were printed by American Lithograph and issued circa Spring/Summer 1910.
Burdick's 1914-1915 timeline pertains to the subsequent COUPON sets that he cataloged as T213-2 and T213-3. The cards in these two sets are easily distinguished from the
1910 COUPON cards since their captions were printed with blue ink (and, of course their backs are a different design).

Leon
I am with you on this statement of your's....."I am certainly willing to go along with that one, from what we know today."

I'd say we can also apply the same thinking to the 1910 COUPON issue. You don't want to call them "T206's". And, that's fine. But, let us at least acknowledge that had Burdick
the correct timeline of this issue, he may have classified these cards otherwise.







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TED Z
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