Stupidity Rules the Day!!!!

[clydepepper]

What a play call that pass was!!!

[clydepepper]

and I was all set to get my money back on my Russell Wilson RCs...


oh well, I'll adopt the old-time Brooklyn manta:

'Wait 'til next year!'

[clydepepper]

Now, I'm hearing that Lynch REALLY wanted the ball....


Gosh, I wish he had spoken up.

[gregr2]

Originally Posted by clydepepper

Now, I'm hearing that Lynch REALLY wanted the ball....


Gosh, I wish he had spoken up.

Nicely done!!

[vintagetoppsguy]

Seahawks fans are such hypocrites. If they would have caught that ball instead, all you would be hearing about this morning is “The Catch.” Instead, they’re calling it the worst play call ever.

You only need to look at the end of the first half to see another play call equally as bad. With six seconds to go in the half, they opted to go for the TD instead of kicking the field goal (and they would have got the ball to start the second half). Sure, it worked out, but if it hadn’t you would have been hearing about the OTHER bad play call. Why aren’t the Seahawks fans talking about that decision to go for the TD instead of the FG? Because the TD decision worked out. And if Wilson had thrown a TD instead of an interception, there would be no second guessing the play call afterwards because it would have worked out.

[jefferyepayne]

I would have run the ball. HOWEVER. I'm not an NFL coach. Would I have called for a fake field goal down 16 to the Packers? Gone for it on 4th down various times in the playoffs in critical situations?

The reality is that to succeed in the NFL you sometimes have to do what's unexpected and take a chance. I'm not sure this was exactly the play I would have called in that situation to take that chance but I applaud the Seattle coaches for going with their gut and going against the grain. If their fake field goal against the Packers hadn't worked out, they would have been skewered a game earlier.

This time it just didn't work out for them. That's football.

jeff

[tonyo]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

If they would have caught that ball instead, all you would be hearing about this morning is “The Catch.” Instead, they’re calling it the worst play call ever.

You only need to look at the end of the first half to see another play call equally as bad. With six seconds to go in the half, they opted to go for the TD instead of kicking the field goal (and they would have got the ball to start the second half). Sure, it worked out, but if it hadn’t you would have been hearing about the OTHER bad play call. Why aren’t the Seahawks fans talking about that decision to go for the TD instead of the FG? Because the TD decision worked out. And if Wilson had thrown a TD instead of an interception, there would be no second guessing the play call afterwards because it would have worked out.

Great point - what a gutsy call that was at the end of the first half and Carroll will get few props for it.

I thought Pete Carroll's explanation right after the game was a good one. (paraphrasing "we didn't have a good personnel matchup, we thought it was a safe play, we were ready to run on 3rd and 4th down"

The kid from New England just made a great play. Browner certainly played it correctly, and apparently New England's prep for that exact play call paid off.


Congrats to the Patriots and I thought it was a terrific game.

[glchen]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Seahawks fans are such hypocrites. If they would have caught that ball instead, all you would be hearing about this morning is “The Catch.” Instead, they’re calling it the worst play call ever.

You only need to look at the end of the first half to see another play call equally as bad. With six seconds to go in the half, they opted to go for the TD instead of kicking the field goal (and they would have got the ball to start the second half). Sure, it worked out, but if it hadn’t you would have been hearing about the OTHER bad play call. Why aren’t the Seahawks fans talking about that decision to go for the TD instead of the FG? Because the TD decision worked out. And if Wilson had thrown a TD instead of an interception, there would be no second guessing the play call afterwards because it would have worked out.

There's a big difference between the end of game call and the end of 1st half call. If you miss the end of first half call, you still have the entire 2nd half to try to make it up. (See Kurt Warner's pick 6 at the end of the half against the Steelers in the SB a few years ago.) With the end of game call, you screw up, the game is over! It was just a horribly bad call. If they wanted to pass, they should have done the usual tackle eligible play action pass that you saw a lot. Then you could always throw the ball away if your receiver isn't open. You don't throw it into a huge crowd in the middle of the field. Too many bad things could have happened like a tipped ball or exactly what you saw happen on that play. Lynch gained 4 yards on the previous play, so I think the Pats were on their heels and probably in shock still over Kearse's catch. They should have just tried to pound it in with Lynch one more time. If he loses yards, you can do a run / pass option on third down. If Lynch gets stuff, you can try to run it in again.

I guess the GB game haunted the coaches in a way when they left time on the clock for Rodgers to come back and kick a field goal for a tie. However, as I have seen other articles say, you are losing, you can't afford to get cute. If it's a tie game, perhaps you can look at winding the clock down, but not when you are losing the game. Just a crazy call.

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Seahawks fans are such hypocrites. If they would have caught that ball instead, all you would be hearing about this morning is “The Catch.” Instead, they’re calling it the worst play call ever.

You only need to look at the end of the first half to see another play call equally as bad. With six seconds to go in the half, they opted to go for the TD instead of kicking the field goal (and they would have got the ball to start the second half). Sure, it worked out, but if it hadn’t you would have been hearing about the OTHER bad play call. Why aren’t the Seahawks fans talking about that decision to go for the TD instead of the FG? Because the TD decision worked out.

That wasn't a bad play call there at all. The only risk is if time runs out on you via a scramble or sack. You're throwing into the end zone so it's either going to be an incomplete, TD, or pick. Odds of a pick on that throw were very low. A TD is obviously the preferred outcome. An incomplete stops the clock, they kick the FG.

The two calls are not even close to the same.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Seahawks fans are such hypocrites. If they would have caught that ball instead, all you would be hearing about this morning is “The Catch.” Instead, they’re calling it the worst play call ever.

David, I don't think you can call someone a hypocrite for an alternate scenario that was brewed up inside YOUR head.

I just keep thinking about the 1967 NFC Championship game - if only Bart Starr had thrown a pass...

[Runscott]

There is a good article in today's Seattle Times where Carroll explains his coaching philosophy about such plays. You should read it.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Scott, I did and here's an excerpt.

"The pass from the 1-yard line with 26 seconds left, he said, was born out of the same philosophy that led to the touchdown pass on which Seattle scored with six seconds to go in the first half."

My contention is that they were both bad calls. If you disagree, I respect that. But they're either BOTH good calls or BOTH bad calls. It can't be one is good and one is bad when the article says they were BOTH born from the same philosophy.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Scott, I did and here's an excerpt.

"The pass from the 1-yard line with 26 seconds left, he said, was born out of the same philosophy that led to the touchdown pass on which Seattle scored with six seconds to go in the first half."

My contention is that they were both bad calls. If you disagree, I respect that. But they're either BOTH good calls or BOTH bad calls. It can't be one is good and one is bad when the article says they were BOTH born from the same philosophy.

Thanks, David. No, I have publicly stated here that I personally disagreed with both calls. I'm certain you read my comments, so I'm not really getting this.

I did; however, say that the call at the end of the first half did not have the same potential for being 'devastating'. There is really no need to put words in my mouth;e.g- "If you disagree…" - I have stated very clearly what I believe…several times. Your issue here is going to have to be with the Seattle fans who you have labeled as "hypocrites", who I have not actually met or heard from, even though I am right here amongst them. They must be in North Carolina, hiding

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Runscott

Thanks, David. No, I have publicly stated here that I personally disagreed with both calls. I'm certain you read my comments, so I'm not really getting this.

I did; however, say that the call at the end of the first half did not have the same potential for being 'devastating'. There is really no need to put words in my mouth;e.g- "If you disagree…" - I have stated very clearly what I believe…several times. Your issue here is going to have to be with the Seattle fans who you have labeled as "hypocrites", who I have not actually met or heard from, even though I am right here amongst them. They must be in North Carolina, hiding

Scott, if you disagree with both calls, so be it. I could care less if you agree or disagree. I just think it's hypocritical (not you) for anybody (Seattle fan or not) to say one call was good and the other call was bad when the article (according to Pete Carroll) said that both calls were born from the same philosophy. Fair enough?

[nolemmings]

First of all, the notion that both plays were "born of the same philosophy" is the writer's choice of words, not Carroll's. It does not lead to the conclusion that both were either right or wrong calls. Carrolls' words were “I don’t ever coach these guys at one time thinking that they’re going to throw an interception, thinking that we’re going to fumble the ball’’.

They were two different plays and decisions. One decision was not a play-call, but a tactical decision. No one is saying that the first-half pass should have been a run or different pass route. Rather, the argument against it was that it could leave no time on the clock if it fell incomplete, and thus the play should not have occurred at all. While the INT was I suppose a possibility, if there were 10-12 seconds left nobody would have found the decision to go for the end zone a problem. Thus, the "philosophy" that Carroll doesn't think of interceptions or fumbles didn't really matter at all in the first half.

The game-ender is a different story altogether. It was a horrific play call, with far too many risks, including not only those I mentioned before but also the dreaded Notre Dame--FSU outcome of an offensive PI flag on the pick, which needlessly backs you up and takes away the run. The "philosophy" of ignoring the possibility of mistakes is boneheaded there--you take the low risk play, especially with downs and a timeout in your pocket.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Scott, if you disagree with both calls, so be it. I could care less if you agree or disagree. I just think it's hypocritical (not you) for anybody (Seattle fan or not) to say one call was good and the other call was bad when the article (according to Pete Carroll) said that both calls were born from the same philosophy. Fair enough?

If a person were making the calls themselves, they could very well disagree with one and not the other. Not everyone understands Pete Carroll's coaching philosophy - that doesn't make them hypocrites.

[Runscott]

Sorry Todd - that was the reason for the disclaimer.

I definitely could be guilty of rationalizing Carroll's call. It's difficult to swallow that he might have severely blown it and given away the Super Bowl, but that was certainly my initial reaction. I believe I am done with this topic - moving ahead to baseball is a healthy emotional thing for me at this point - but it has been a great discussion.