Graded Spalding Cut out Pictures/Revisited

[ullmandds]

Just saw this Spalding cut out graded by Beckett...does anyone know how long becket has been encasing them? Atleast they label them more accurately than psa.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1909-Spaldin...item417aa8baea

[daves_resale_shop]

No idea...

But I will say that the pricing on this one is ridiculous... you can find the New Orleans photo (not common-if you look for it), taken out of the guide in the $50-75 range...

[bcbgcbrcb]

If you look a little, you can find a complete guide for the higher end of that estimate.

[drcy]

If they're correctly labelled, they're correctly labelled. Though I'd prefer the word 'page' be on the label.

[drcy]

The grading director at Beckett once told me they will holder anything you give them that fits in a holder. As long as it's labelled accurately, that's fine. I believe he gave that answer after I asked if they would holder someone's own snapshots he shot at a baseball game he attended.

No, I never said I was for the cutting up of old baseball guides. Because I'm not.

And I meant within reason. I don't believe Beckett will authenticate a cheese sandwich with a Jesus image, even if it fits in a holder. Maybe if it's Babe Ruth.

[Leon]

As has been said, as long as they label them correctly i don't think it's a big deal. I don't know when the started grading them.
I can't believe someone would pay that kind of price for that item but I have seen worse. As a matter of fact I have that same picture from a smaller guide and bought it as a non graded cut out. I think I paid about $10 shipped for it. I wanted it to go with something else I have. They have a place in the hobby, to me, but it's not in the hundreds of dollars range place .

[maniac_73]

I think it just goes back to something is worth what someone is willing to pay for it.


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[Exhibitman]

An accurately labeled cutout listed as authentic isn't going to collapse the industry...

My collecting interests have always run towards the offbeat items, so I am perhaps a bit more receptive to grading co's slabbing non-traditional items than others, but I also remember that on the great spectrum of hobby weirdness what we do isn't that recently mainstreamed. In 1976, for example, my mother wanted to kick my father's @$$ for lending me $45 to buy 1952 and 1953 Topps Mays cards at a show in NYC. When I was a kid, collecting cards was something that only a small group of oddballs did--people would hand me boxes of old cards happily to free up garage and attic space. And even I never thought to save the wrappers and the boxes from the cards I was buying at the local candy store...I just bought a 1975 box [thanks Larry] to replace the two I threw away in 1975. Even now, planning my trip for the National, some people still look at me like I'm from Mars or something when I say I am spending my summer vacation in Cleveland collecting baseball cards.

The Hobby evolves as different items interest different people. Look at the last several years at how vintage photos have come into the mainstream in the Hobby. Yes, TPGs slabbing non-card items legitimizes cut-outs to some extent, but the funny thing to me is that it has taken so long for sports collectors to start in on that sort of vintage paper ephemera. Collecting items clipped from periodicals is a big part of other paper collecting fields. At a paper collectibles show I attend there are usually a couple of vendors whose entire inventories are cuts from old magazines and books. I am not seeing how TPG encapsulation of oddball items diminishes the card collecting end of things. Has anyone's 1968 Topps Ryan lost value because PSA slabbed a cutout? Will the Joe Jackson New Orleans team shot that started this thread lead anyone not to pick up a CJ Jackson? If not, what's the harm? As long as the buyer has the information necessary to understand the purchase, no harm is done, and if someone wants their item encapsulated, as long as it is accurately listed on the flip, again, no harm. My feeling is that it is just as likely that items like the ones in question can serve as 'gateway' items to more mainstream card collecting.

I readily admit to some personal bias in this: I have a number of pieces that were parts of newspapers, magazines and/or books. Sometimes they are the only realistic way to collect items issued during the careers of the athletes involved. Early 19th century copper plate engravings of boxers from Pierce Egan's Boxiana book. Might look nice in a Beckett slab...







Other times they are nice additions to a player run.



Regardless, I am not comfortable telling people how to enjoy their collecting.

[JLange]

As far as collecting goes, I generally draw the line at items removed from a book, magazine, or newspaper that are clearly just part of the article/story. That said, if the author or editor intended for these items to be removed, as is the case with many of the paper items in the hobby, then I am perfectly fine with them being cut out and even slapped, even if that meant destroying the rest of the item. Anything at all with dotted lines and instructions to cutout to collect or save for one's scrapbook would be fine by me. These spalding pages don't fit the bill in my book.

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by JLange

As far as collecting goes, I generally draw the line at items removed from a book, magazine, or newspaper that are clearly just part of the article/story. That said, if the author or editor intended for these items to be removed, as is the case with many of the paper items in the hobby, then I am perfectly fine with them being cut out and even slapped, even if that meant destroying the rest of the item. Anything at all with dotted lines and instructions to cutout to collect or save for one's scrapbook would be fine by me. These spalding pages don't fit the bill in my book.

Jason, since all of our cards were meant to be played with by kids, and some [tattoos, transfers and stickers] were meant to be peeled or licked and stuck on things that would annoy parents and deface school property, I tend not to get too worried about manufacturers' intent. I certainly don't think anyone making a baseball card in 1933 expected them to be stored away in archival materials and cherished like holy relics.

Let's face it, we're all a bit eccentric about this thing of ours.

[JLange]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Jason, since all of our cards were meant to be played with by kids, and some [tattoos, transfers and stickers] were meant to be peeled or licked and stuck on things that would annoy parents and deface school property, I tend not to get too worried about manufacturers' intent. I certainly don't think anyone making a baseball card in 1933 expected them to be stored away in archival materials and cherished like holy relics.

Let's face it, we're all a bit eccentric about this thing of ours.

Good point. I've been known to bend my own rules for collecting now and then. Especially if I really want the item, I'll find a way to make it work!

[aaroncc]

Adam, I collect the book plate engravings as well. I enjoy them too not enough to take them out of a book. But as you know there are quite a few Boxiana book plates around that makes it possible to collect without removing them ourselves. By the way couple years ago I got 3 Boxiana book plates put in Beckett slabs. Turns out I personally don't like them slabbed, but tried it out.

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

An accurately labeled cutout listed as authentic isn't going to collapse the industry...

My collecting interests have always run towards the offbeat items, so I am perhaps a bit more receptive to grading co's slabbing non-traditional items than others, but I also remember that on the great spectrum of hobby weirdness what we do isn't that recently mainstreamed. In 1976, for example, my mother wanted to kick my father's @$$ for lending me $45 to buy 1952 and 1953 Topps Mays cards at a show in NYC. When I was a kid, collecting cards was something that only a small group of oddballs did--people would hand me boxes of old cards happily to free up garage and attic space. And even I never thought to save the wrappers and the boxes from the cards I was buying at the local candy store...I just bought a 1975 box [thanks Larry] to replace the two I threw away in 1975. Even now, planning my trip for the National, some people still look at me like I'm from Mars or something when I say I am spending my summer vacation in Cleveland collecting baseball cards.

The Hobby evolves as different items interest different people. Look at the last several years at how vintage photos have come into the mainstream in the Hobby. Yes, TPGs slabbing non-card items legitimizes cut-outs to some extent, but the funny thing to me is that it has taken so long for sports collectors to start in on that sort of vintage paper ephemera. Collecting items clipped from periodicals is a big part of other paper collecting fields. At a paper collectibles show I attend there are usually a couple of vendors whose entire inventories are cuts from old magazines and books. I am not seeing how TPG encapsulation of oddball items diminishes the card collecting end of things. Has anyone's 1968 Topps Ryan lost value because PSA slabbed a cutout? Will the Joe Jackson New Orleans team shot that started this thread lead anyone not to pick up a CJ Jackson? If not, what's the harm? As long as the buyer has the information necessary to understand the purchase, no harm is done, and if someone wants their item encapsulated, as long as it is accurately listed on the flip, again, no harm. My feeling is that it is just as likely that items like the ones in question can serve as 'gateway' items to more mainstream card collecting.

I readily admit to some personal bias in this: I have a number of pieces that were parts of newspapers, magazines and/or books. Sometimes they are the only realistic way to collect items issued during the careers of the athletes involved. Early 19th century copper plate engravings of boxers from Pierce Egan's Boxiana book. Might look nice in a Beckett slab...







Other times they are nice additions to a player run.



Regardless, I am not comfortable telling people how to enjoy their collecting.

[drcy]

Folio implies the prints were stand alones, usually loose in the envelope, box or folder or otherwise loosely bound (such as with string) and intended to be removed as stand alones.

I bought a 1940s Toni Frissell (famous magazine photographer) folio she was hired to photograph, with the folio used to promote/advertise a Western railroad. Or maybe it was sold in the train's gift shop. It was a thin wide box of loose scenic prints, each intended as a display item. The prints themselves had no text except for her faux pre-printed signature at the bottom, but the cover of the box had a colorful graphics and text for the railroad. The complete boxed folio isn't rare-- they were available to the public--, but probably goes for around $1,000, maybe more. As I said, Frissell is a well known photographer, and vintage railroad advertising and memorabilia is popularly collected. I bought it because of the Frissell connection and already owned one or two of her original photos.

Today's trivia answer: Toni Frissell remains the only person to photograph covers for both Vogue and Sports Illustrated magazines. She's best known today as a 1930s-50s fashion photographer, but, in the 1950s, became the first female staff photographer at Sports Illustrated.