So why do the Doyle and Magie errors counts as part of the set?

[rainier2004]

I obviously don't collect t206s, but I do collect sets. In my world of set collectors you have set guys, master set guys, subset guys, etc. I collect sets, do not do masters or errors. If the Doyle and Magie are errors, why are they part of the 524? Sure seems like the set stops at 522. Are there other errors in the t206s that are part of the 524? Seems like those would be more or a master set, but you t206 guys are goofy and I cant keep up with you. My first t206 post....feels weird.

[Sean]

I hope that you survive your first T206 post and continue, because this is a great question.
In both cases the picture on the error card is the same as on the correct version, only the spelling or team is different. In both cases the printers made an error, caught the error, and corrected it by changing the caption beneath the picture. This change is enough to cause the new (correct) version to be considered a new card.
If this definition of a new card seems arbitrary to you, I suppose that you're right. But this definition of what constitutes a new card has been accepted for years so I guess we just don't question it.

[rainier2004]

Originally Posted by Sean

I hope that you survive your first T206 post and continue, because this is a great question.
In both cases the picture on the error card is the same as on the correct version, only the spelling or team is different. In both cases the printers made an erroe, caught the error, and corrected it by changing the caption beneath the picture. This change is enough to cause the new (correct) version to be considered a new card.
If this definition of a new card seems arbitrary to you, I suppose that you're right. But this definition of what constitutes a new card has been accepted for years so I guess we just don't question it.

Yeah, but theres other sets with errors that people do not count to be complete. Look at t205s, people count thier set complete at 208 with a master at 221. 1914 CJ collectors do not get the Bresnahan no number for a complete 144...not sure if we're splitting hairs with variation vs error but the t206s are always labeled error. I always thought what constitued a new card is a new/different card, not an error that the manufacturer caught and corrected.

[yanksfan09]

I agree Steve, t206 just has some of its own rules and quirks. In most other sets miscut and registration problems are just that, problems and detract from a card's value. I can't figure it out. Darn weird back collectors.....

[Paul S]

So why do the Doyle and Magie errors counts as part of the set?

Anal bastards.

[rainier2004]

Originally Posted by Paul S

So why do the Doyle and Magie errors counts as part of the set?

Anal bastards.

That made me laugh...

[usernamealreadytaken]

Nodgrass and Dopner should be added

[Sean]

Originally Posted by usernamealreadytaken

Nodgrass and Dopner should be added

And SHAPPE and MURR'Y?

[bbcard1]

I have completed the set of 520 and consider it functionally complete at this point.

In my heart of hearts, if the fates are kind, I expect to get a beater Magie error and a very low grade Plank at some point in the future.

The Wagner is just insane and may have never really been released to the public...I have a stand in for it and, even if the money comes along, would prefer a nice vacation home or to help my children start a business. The Doyle just seems like a silly little anomaly of a player of minor significance and i wouldn't have any interest in it at 1/100th of the price it is selling for.

I think that possibly the most interesting part of collecting the monster and one you must come to terms with is the idea that you define what your monster will look like and you don't let the fact that someone else has a different idea of it that you do necessarily has to redefine your ambitions.

[ullmandds]

These days with the tremendous amount of knowledge and discussion about vintage cards occurring on a daily basis...to me...most of the printed data...especially regarding prices and such is very dated...not including more recent works of course! Similarly there are still many perceptions of the hobby that still maintain widespread acceptance because in the 70's -80's this is what was documented and published as the gospel.

Today...to me...valuations...perceived rarity...desirability has really become opinion...and we are all entitled to our own opinion.

This is why some consider t206 to be complete at 518...520...some 522...some 524. As anyone says...t206 is so great because you can collect it in so many ways?!

On the rare occasion you see an e97 set for sale...it is often considered complete without the sulivan, steinfeldt, nichols variations.

TO me...a set with all of the variations is a master set.

[Runscott]

Interesting to hear the different perspectives on this.

Doyle and Magie were corrections - you can count them or not count them. There are plenty of other things that were intentionally changed, or 'corrected', in various cards, that don't involves the captions, and no one considers those to be different cards. And there are things like missing red 'B's, 'nodgrass', etc., that are just crappily-produced cards. If you are interested in such things, then collect them - I'm surprised no one has created a new checklist that includes all of these in it (even the odd Marquards, caps missing stripes, etc - anything released to production and not a scrap).

My list is much simpler - I want at least one of each player (one Cobb, one Chase, etc) but multiples if I like the design a lot (all three Matty's). Not sure what the length of such a checklist would be, but it's simpler and cheaper to collect the 'mini-monster'.

[travrosty]

why isnt nodgrass included then?

i think it is because there are so few of them, and if it was unofficially officially included , the price would skyrocket for all of the unofficial official set collectors would now have to have one. if there were 300 nodgrass errors in existance, it would be okay, but there are only ? so people don;t want it added to the unofficial official list because it would just be another card to go for big huge bucks, and the set is expensive enough already.

[E93]

Originally Posted by bbcard1

The Wagner is just insane and may have never really been released to the public

You may not want one in your set, but that does not mean it was not released. There is simply no evidence to substantiate this guess.

Can you explain how it is that approximately 60 different examples would end up in original period collections of T206s and eventually make their way to our hobby if they were not released in packs? Were they all the collections of 60 friends of someone from ATC who handed them out?
JimB

[steve B]

I think it's a combination of a couple things. And Magie and Doyle are different situations.

With Magie it's mostly tradition for it to be included. The early checklisters didn't make much distinction between a different card and one with a caption difference. There are plenty of caption differences in T206 that aren't because of errors that it makes some sense.
The Herrer and Bakep cards in the 50's are debatable even as variations, but they're still included in the master list, mostly because they've been listed for so long.

Another reason for it being listed is that it's only comparatively recently that the error could be narrowed down to a particular part of the set with any certainty. When I started, it was almost impossible to find any list at all that showed the back choices as being limited.
So if it was an error that was maybe on one card out of a sheet it might be considered as a different card.
A lot of the T205s that are variations that aren't part of the main set are limited to one brand.

The Doyle is a bit different. I think it's being part of the main set is mostly because of how it was initially promoted by a dealer with a lot of influence.

There are paralells in other hobbies. In stamps the one cent stamp from 1851 was printed from a few plates and the image wasn't complete in nearly every position on all plates. The catalog lists them under numbers 5 through 9 with a couple having capital letters after the number like 5A. They're all essentially the same stamp, just with different degrees of completeness. The typical ones can be had for well under 100 dollars. There was one position on one plate that showed the complete design. That one is rare, and sells for around $85,000 The stamp right next to it on the sheet is just as rare, but only catalogs 16,000..........And yet, plate differences in any later series of stamps only get minor numbers(similar to variations) And even than not all of them are listed. The 1851 listings are against the published listing policy, but have been that way since the 1930's or earlier, so it's not likely to change anytime soon.

Steve B

[rainier2004]

Thanks Steve, not a back guy so that point was not considered.

I still think its all odd, especially with it being based on a couple old dealers perspective. The answer to my question seems to be tradition, tradition, tradition...thanks for all the input.