Bidding on your own auction

[Edwolf1963]

I don't understand this, unless to drive up the bid prices..? Look at this Probstein123 listing which ends tonight...

http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.d...m=380538844655

y***y (private) bid $189 on 12/18 - - only issue is y***y (private) won this very card on 12/2/12 for $355! (see below link)

http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.d...m=251189941256

So he winds winning the card, consigns with Rick - and bids on his own card to drive more bids/up the price..?

[Howe’s Hunter]

Since eBay went to the whole bidder privacy thing years ago, and your bids no longer show up under your eBay name, do you always have the same cryptic handle no matter what you bid on? Guess I've never paid that much attention, but if I bid on something last year, and someone saw I was bidder A****Z, would I still be bidder A****Z a year later when I bid on something again, or are those things randomly generated?

Sorry, just don't have a clue about this.

[smtjoy]

Yes your ebay scrambled ID shows up the same, mine is always the same even when checking VCP on cards I purchased.

[Tobacco&Gum]

Originally Posted by smtjoy

Yes your ebay scrambled ID shows up the same, mine is always the same even when checking VCP on cards I purchased.

+1, same goes for card target

[bcbgcbrcb]

I think they are random but not 100% sure.

[Edwolf1963]

Good question - I know I always come up as o***o along with my feedback score (I don't know what people do to get listed as "private"?)

Now, they may assign "o***o" to others as well, I'm not sure..? But this is too much of a coincidence -- y***y (private) wins the card on 12/2, consigns the card for re-sell to Probstein123 and then y***y (private) shows up bidding on it..? Wow.

I've reported it, called eBay - they did confirm that y***y (private) won the card on 12/2 and has now bid on that very same card in this current auction Probstein123 has. Unknown if Rick is aware, that's why I called eBay instead of just reporting it as a shill bid.

[D. Bergin]

Somebody should probably contact Probstein about it. I doubt he keeps track of all of his consignors ID's, or checks the bid history of every one of his auctions.

[atx840]

It's been mentioned before, this guy is highly suspicious. He's bid on every T206 and any other card type.


Bidding Details


Bidder Information
Bidder: s***s( 442)
Feedback: 100%Positive
Item description: T206 Miller Huggins Portrait Cincinnati HOF PSA 2 GOOD
Bids on this item: 3

30-Day Summary
Total bids: 1041
Items bid on: 469
Bid activity (%) with this seller: 78%
Bid retractions: 3
Bid retractions (6 months): 42

[ScottFandango]

78% of all his bids are with that seller?

is that correct?

[Edwolf1963]

I have contacted Probstein to advise as suggested, he may indeed not be aware - that's why I didn't just report it as shilling (as that may suggest he's aware, instigating, etc).

FYI - y***y (private) seller/bidder is "myboydannyroy67"

[honus94566]

Seems quite possible that this account is a shill account, it "accidentally" won for him the first time, so now he is re-listing the card.

"30-Day Summary
Total bids: 1041
Items bid on: 469
Bid activity (%) with this seller: 78%
Bid retractions: 3
Bid retractions (6 months): 42"

This is not a normal ebay account. At least from what I can see.

[Republicaninmass]

Originally Posted by Edwolf1963

I have contacted Probstein to advise as suggested, he may indeed not be aware - that's why I didn't just report it as shilling (as that may suggest he's aware, instigating, etc).

FYI - y***y (private) seller/bidder is "myboydannyroy67"

Didnt do a very good job as he still lost a few hundred on the sale no?

edited I see it has NOT yet ended

[ScottFandango]

looks like Y****Y is bidding on many Probsteins 1914's...usually one of the early bidders...

why would someone bid 69.99 or 89.99? does this person like losing by .01
?
i have been on ebay many many years and never bid this amount (.99) when trying to win a card, i cant figure it out...

[Republicaninmass]

never have seen a different masked id for one particular buyer, and it is the sames ones who keep outbidding me!

[iwantitiwinit]

In my mind there is only one reason for someone to consistently bid .01 lower than a round figure and that is because in most situations someone else has bid an exact amount and you want to extract maximum value. As mentioned you bid 89.99 because more than likely someone has bid $90.00. If you are a true buyer and want to win a card you bid $90.01 not 89.99. It would be interesting to see if this pattern occurred with other sales from that same seller. Hope we don't find out this is another "black eye" for an ebay seller.

[probstein123]

Bidding on your own auction
I don't understand this, unless to drive up the bid prices..? Look at this Probstein123 listing which ends tonight...

http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.d...m=380538844655

y***y (private) bid $189 on 12/18 - - only issue is y***y (private) won this very card on 12/2/12 for $355! (see below link)

http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.d...m=251189941256

So he winds winning the card, consigns with Rick - and bids on his own card to drive more bids/up the price..?

==> hey ed, how are you ? I went back and looked at that auction...the winning bidder is not one of active 300 consignors...

[TNP777]

If you're referring to the winning bidder of the recently-ended auction, then you're not answering the question, Rick. The concern is that the person who won the first auction then consigned the card with you and subsequently ended up as one of the underbidders, more popularly known as a shill bidder.

See, this is your pattern. When there is a thread praising you, you're Johnny-on-the-spot. When there is a thread (and there have been many) that call into question sketchy bidding activity on your auctions, or your blatant spamming of the SC&MF on CU, or anything else negative, well then it's crickets. When you do bother to respond, you give some nebulous answer that's not an answer at all. Usually you give an answer that had nothing to do with the question. Heck, why respond when there's a darn good chance then thread will be locked, or posts selectively deleted, or best yet the whole thread disappears? Duck the tough but fair questions and wait for the Moderator-That-Shall-Not-Be-Named to simply delete the offending question and ban the asker.

[probstein123]

hi, guys, I did research on this bidder's name and this bidder is not one of my 300+ consignors...just some guy from Mississippi bidding....please feel free to contact me anytime if you think inappropriate bids are happening....we actively block bidders when things are brought to my attention...we are on pace to sell 100,000 items this year, averaging over 10,000 sales a month recently, so I am not actively reviewing every bid...ebay auctions ( especially mine ) are watched closely by " trust and safety " and often, people send us outside info as well....

best to call me, I'm not online all the time...
thanks
rick
973 747 6304

[atx840]

It's okay guys, Rick did his research...move along.

[thehoodedcoder]

Originally Posted by probstein123

hi, guys, I did research on this bidder's name and this bidder is not one of my 300+ consignors...just some guy from Mississippi bidding....please feel free to contact me anytime if you think inappropriate bids are happening....we actively block bidders when things are brought to my attention...we are on pace to sell 100,000 items this year, averaging over 10,000 sales a month recently, so I am not actively reviewing every bid...ebay auctions ( especially mine ) are watched closely by " trust and safety " and often, people send us outside info as well....

best to call me, I'm not online all the time...
thanks
rick
973 747 6304

how am the only person who is understanding this concept?:

everything is ok? we looked, we are not in on it, neither is anyone else. trust me when i tell you nothing is wrong.

are you serious? let me continue this: his name was bob jumbolaya. he sounded like he was 29 years old-ish when we spoke on the phone and he typed with a overseas z to s replacement even though he was from the greater mississippi area. do you believe me now that i have told you all of this? of course not. you could be a compulsive liar for all we know.

when someone questions your level of trust with evidence you need to refute with evidence.

you are fighting a trust and evidence issue with only a rquest to trust? that is a falacy. i feel bad enough for anyone who believes what you just said without evidence that you are in fact 1) telliing the truth and 2) you did the diligence people are assuming you did.

add real proof. take a screen shot. trust someone on here to examine the evidence and testify you are giving accurate statements.

kevin

[ScottFandango]

the recent drama had me thinking...and i searched some old threads...

my head is spinning! seems like once a month there is a thread about Probstien and his alleged schilling...its thread after thread...

why is this guy always involved in some alleged wrongful activity...

why is it the "biggest" sellers always seem to have the most potential issues

now his association with JOE....i thought he was not gonna do business with this guy Joe anymore.....

mr Probstien, WHAT IS YOUR RESPONSE?

[Sean]

Originally Posted by atx840

It's been mentioned before, this guy is highly suspicious. He's bid on every T206 and any other card type.


Bidding Details


Bidder Information
Bidder: s***s( 442)
Feedback: 100%Positive
Item description: T206 Miller Huggins Portrait Cincinnati HOF PSA 2 GOOD
Bids on this item: 3

30-Day Summary
Total bids: 1041
Items bid on: 469
Bid activity (%) with this seller: 78%
Bid retractions: 3
Bid retractions (6 months): 42

He has retracted 42 bids in the last 6 months. How is this allowed?

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by Sean

He has retracted 42 bids in the last 6 months. How is this allowed?

I don't know. Seems to me, all bids are good bids according to Ebay.

Does anybody think it's a coincidence that about the same time Ebay made bidding accounts largely anonymous, they also lifted restrictions on bid retractions?

When a bidder has that many retractions it means one of two things. They are shilling auctions or they are tampering with auctions. Not good for buyers or sellers in the overall scheme of things.

I don't mind making bidders names anonymous, because many bidders prefer to stay anonymous if possible...........that generally holds for any type of auction.

However, to make the habitual act of retracting bids an accepted part of the auction process, strikes me as Ebay putting their head in the sand as a way of defending themselves by telling people "we didn't know these types of practices were going on." It's their way of not having to deal with the problem.

Sure, they have rules against "shilling" and "tampering with auctions", but they rarely ever acknowledge it, except in very extreme and blatant circumstances.

[Butch7999]

Trivia, just for the record:

-- "masked" eBay IDs do not always come up the same for the same bidder (although they're consistent within any single auction).
Our eBay ID has shown up masked a couple of different ways.

-- a "masked" ID can represent any number of eBay bidders -- there are only about 1,600 possible two-character combinations.

[smtjoy]

Well all I can say is mine show up the same and have so for a long time (and I checked about 20 more purchases too) -


2/4/10 eBay Image macbruce11 y***t 12 $261.00

11/28/10 eBay Image davidbvintage y***t 1 $22.00

10/23/11 eBay Image cardsandbrowns y***t 9 $47.00

12/8/12 eBay Auction | Image dslsports y***t 9 $5.50

[MW1]

Originally Posted by Butch7999

Trivia, just for the record:

-- "masked" eBay IDs do not always come up the same for the same bidder (although they're consistent within any single auction).
Our eBay ID has shown up masked a couple of different ways.

-- a "masked" ID can represent any number of eBay bidders -- there are only about 1,600 possible two-character combinations.

Butch,

Can you provide an example?

[atx840]

Please also look into this bidder, since my original post his % has dropped but he is still bidding on a good majority of your cards.

He has bids in 26/27 of your current auction T206 listings. Same with n***n(270)


Bidder Information
Bidder: s***s( 442)
Feedback: 100%Positive
Bids on this item: 3

30-Day Summary
Total bids: 1041
Items bid on: 469
Bid activity (%) with this seller: 78%
Bid retractions: 3
Bid retractions (6 months): 42

[cincyredlegs]

My question is why are we doing all the detective work for Rick and he is not doing it himself. It's not like we haven't provided him dozens of examples (shill bidding and fake packs). It really isn't that hard and doesn't take as much work as some may think.

If I am running a business, the first time I hear of shady practices, I would put a process in place immediately to make sure it doesn't happen or limit to a bear minimum (understand you won't catch everyone everytime). That may be adding a person to monitor the bidding activity of my auctions. My reputation is worth more than a couple extra dollars in fees that I would make on ebay.

Mark

[TNP777]

Less than 10% of Rick's auctions are true auctions - the rest of his listings ate fixed price. Monitoring even those "few" auctions is probably more daunting than we think, but it would still be nice to see immediate emphatic action taken when shilling is exposed. Maybe Rick does take that action immediately, maybe not. It does seem that controversy swirls for quite some time before an appearance is made letting the board know it's been handled.

I've said it before across the street - Rick can run his business any way he darn well pleases. He's obviously doing something right, or a whole lot of somethings. Were it my business, though, I'd be all over it the instant improprieties became known, and I'd be vigorously informing my current and potential client base that I was doing everything possible to safeguard the integrity of my auctions.

[Sean1125]

I consign with Rick and the last thing I want is his items not getting bids because some consignors are not honest, but I don't think there is an EASY way to do it. I know there is a way but it will take Rick time and resources to get it figured out.

How do you propose he browses 2k listings at any one time cycling probably 10-20k a month? I'm being objective, you say he needs to do something but do not propose anything.

Edit*

Why not help to find a solution? I think it would benefit much more than just Rick and the consignor's if there was an easier, quicker way to figure out shill bidders. It would get items true prices and bidders would be more happy as well due to real deals every now and then.

[trobba]

Originally Posted by Sean1125

I consign with Rick and the last thing I want is his items not getting bids because some consignors are not honest, but I don't think there is an EASY way to do it. I know there is a way but it will take Rick time and resources to get it figured out.

How do you propose he browses 2k listings at any one time cycling probably 10-20k a month? I'm being objective, you say he needs to do something but do not propose anything.

Edit*

Why not help to find a solution? I think it would benefit much more than just Rick and the consignor's if there was an easier, quicker way to figure out shill bidders. It would get items true prices and bidders would be more happy as well due to real deals every now and then.

Solution:

accept less consignments and do it efficiently...economics 101

sounds like he is in jeopardy of losing his successful business practice so he needs to do something.

He can:

1. hire someone to go through his auctions and check for shill bidding

2. At least for the short term, accept fewer consignments. Once he gets a handle on the bidders and potential fishy bidding, he can slowly move to a larger scale. I am sure there is a number he can comfortably keep an eye on, and that should be his limit. Otherwise he has gotten too big to monitor all his auctions and that will slowly, or precipitously, lead to diminished returns and disappointed customers.

Seems like a small price to pay for regaining bidder faith and assuring the community of fair bidding and ethical selling.

3. The alternative is, of course, that he is "in" on some of this which would of course change everything...I am in no way suggesting this is the case, but it certainly would affect his willingness to make any real changes.

[T206DK]

Originally Posted by trobba

Solution:

accept less consignments and do it efficiently...economics 101

sounds like he is in jeopardy of losing his successful business practice so he needs to do something.

He can:

1. hire someone to go through his auctions and check for shill bidding

2. At least for the short term, accept fewer consignments. Once he gets a handle on the bidders and potential fishy bidding, he can slowly move to a larger scale. I am sure there is a number he can comfortably keep an eye on, and that should be his limit. Otherwise he has gotten too big to monitor all his auctions and that will slowly, or precipitously, lead to diminished returns and disappointed customers.

Seems like a small price to pay for regaining bidder faith and assuring the community of fair bidding and ethical selling.

3. The alternative is, of course, that he is "in" on some of this which would of course change everything...I am in no way suggesting this is the case, but it certainly would affect his willingness to make any real changes.

SEE this is the problem here. Everyone is too willing to cut this guy a break EVERYTIME someone notices something fishy about his auctions. Just stop biding on them and he will dry up and blow away , or go back to working a real job. The more excuse you collectors make for dishonest dealers , the more they think they can get awau with. They know a certain segment of collectors will bid on their stuff whether there is shill biding going on or not. If you guys bid on Probsteins stuff ...more power to ya ! he and others like him will linger and sour this hobby for any newcomers.

[TNP777]

Originally Posted by Sean1125

Why not help to find a solution? I think it would benefit much more than just Rick and the consignor's if there was an easier, quicker way to figure out shill bidders. It would get items true prices and bidders would be more happy as well due to real deals every now and then.

Sean, how is my or anyone else's responsibility to help come up with a solution? Sure, I guess we can throw out suggestions, but only the auctioneer knows the inner workings of his business.

This is a loose comparison, but I'll make it anyway. We've all complained long and loud about how steroids have damaged the integrity of baseball. So instead of complaining about it, would you have baseball fans work closely with MLB to help them protect the integrity of the game? Again, it's not our responsibility to fix baseball - it is MLB's responsibility to let their customers know everything possible is being done to safeguard the integrity of their product.

Similarly, I believe it is the auctioneer's responsibility to make sure his current and prospective client base is assured that shilling is in no way acceptable and will be dealt with harshly. Obviously this is a difficult thing to tackle, but given the recent rash of proven shills I would think it would be somewhat of a priority.

[cubsfan-budman]

At this point, I would definitely not consign with Probstein if I was in the market to do so. His responses seem to me to be dodging the issue and faking concern.

Sean, what do you propose he do about intentional fraud being perpetrated within his business? Nothing?!?

No way to run a business, imho.

[Sean1125]

Originally Posted by TNP777

Sean, how is my or anyone else's responsibility to help come up with a solution? Sure, I guess we can throw out suggestions, but only the auctioneer knows the inner workings of his business.

This is a loose comparison, but I'll make it anyway. We've all complained long and loud about how steroids have damaged the integrity of baseball. So instead of complaining about it, would you have baseball fans work closely with MLB to help them protect the integrity of the game? Again, it's not our responsibility to fix baseball - it is MLB's responsibility to let their customers know everything possible is being done to safeguard the integrity of their product.

Similarly, I believe it is the auctioneer's responsibility to make sure his current and prospective client base is assured that shilling is in no way acceptable and will be dealt with harshly. Obviously this is a difficult thing to tackle, but given the recent rash of proven shills I would think it would be somewhat of a priority.

Sorry for not being clear, I meant to give suggestions rather than a solution. I believe it is up to Rick to come up with a solution because ultimately he is responsible, but if anyone has any insight that they think would be helpful it would be nice to have it.

Edit: As a comparison to the steroids ordeal I would use "fan feedback" - everyone will have their opinions and I believe most would be willing to give it. I am not saying he will even use them but there might be an "ah-ha" moment on one of them.

[Bugsy]

Originally Posted by Sean1125

I consign with Rick and the last thing I want is his items not getting bids because some consignors are not honest, but I don't think there is an EASY way to do it. I know there is a way but it will take Rick time and resources to get it figured out.

How do you propose he browses 2k listings at any one time cycling probably 10-20k a month? I'm being objective, you say he needs to do something but do not propose anything.

Edit*

Why not help to find a solution? I think it would benefit much more than just Rick and the consignor's if there was an easier, quicker way to figure out shill bidders. It would get items true prices and bidders would be more happy as well due to real deals every now and then.

1. A seller knows when there is a bid retraction. 40+ from the same bidder in a short period of time would send off red flags, no matter how big your operation is.

2. Is a consignor winning their own lots? Is the seller having to relist items because the consignor won the lot the first it was offered? That would not go by undetected either.

Either situation is artificial manipulation by one or more parties and the seller is an accomplice at best. I would just like to have these concerns addressed so that we can be reassured that this is not the case with Probstein auctions.

Thanks.

Chris

[T206DK]

Originally Posted by cincyredlegs

My question is why are we doing all the detective work for Rick and he is not doing it himself. It's not like we haven't provided him dozens of examples (shill bidding and fake packs). It really isn't that hard and doesn't take as much work as some may think.

If I am running a business, the first time I hear of shady practices, I would put a process in place immediately to make sure it doesn't happen or limit to a bear minimum (understand you won't catch everyone everytime). That may be adding a person to monitor the bidding activity of my auctions. My reputation is worth more than a couple extra dollars in fees that I would make on ebay.

Mark

In my opinion his posts on this thread are meant to show fake concern. Just say NO to shill bidding and these guys will have to go back to their real jobs