Matty McIntyre's ca. 1905 Photo Album

[Runscott]

Remember the fuss when this was parted out and auctioned? Some of the interesting topics were the Tigers' trip to Cuba, via Florida, visiting the site of the U.S.S. Maine, etc.

Let's put it back together! If you have any photos that were in the original album, please post here. I have three that I will get scanned and add to this post.

[Runscott]

This topic doesn't seem to be too popular, but for documentation's sake:

The following is from one of the LOA's associated with these photos:

"Highlights of this amazing collection included:

An original 1905 Detroit Tigers Ty Cobb ROOKIE team photo taken by famed photographer L. Van Oeyen. The only known example original photos IN UNIFORM of N.Y. National Giants J.J. McGinnity. The great Detroit Tigers legends like Sam Crawford, Hughie Jennings, and Bobby Lowe. Some exceptionally unique offerings such as an original Jack Dunn photo from 1903 (Jack Dunn discovered George Herman Ruth and gave him the now famous "Babe" nick-name.) Dunn is pictured in Giants uniform. Gene Ford who only appeared in ONE game in 1905. Tom Thomas who only played TWO games ever! Many non-baseball original photos that were snapped by McIntyre include shots in Cuba, young African American children in Augusta, Ga., and many candid shots of his teammates in street clothes, riding a wagon, on boats, hanging out of windows, etc. The majority of these photos were mounted by Matty McIntyre on scrapbook like paper.

[Bpm0014]

Would LOVE to see some pics!

[Runscott]

Brendan, I'll get some scanned today. I had high hopes for being productive over the weekend, but it didn't happen

[milkit1]

yeah there was a post about this a few years ago and I was so mad I missed them on ebay
Here is one of them
MMx2_sm.jpg

[Runscott]

Haha, well you just saved me the trouble of scanning that one!

The back of that 'piece of a page' has a photo of Matty and his friend.

[milkit1]

What did they sell for?

[slidekellyslide]

We know this album belonged to McIntyre, but I'm skeptical that he was the person who wrote the descriptions under the photos. Why wouldn't he write "Me and a friend" or why wouldn't he name the friend if he was the one writing under the photos? Another thing I found mysterious about this album was that a few of the photos I bought had the exact same photo underneath, but the underneath photos were in poor condition. A theory I have is that many of the photos were printed later from the negatives and glued over the older photos...the person who did this may have written the descriptions when they knew who was in the photo. When they didn't know who was in the photo they didn't write any description.

[slidekellyslide]

Some of the photos I had from this collection

George Wiltse and Joe McGinnity


This is an example of one of the photos that I found underneath another photo...in this case the photo was not the same..a baseball photo was over this one. This photo had a glossy finish.



Matty's kid?

[Runscott]

I'll play devil's advocate, although your theory sounds logical.

McIntyre could have re-used a photo album, possibly one that had a lot of blank pages left, pasting over pics. I doubt anyone would have saved the negatives back then, much less gotten them redeveloped, but it's possible.

As far as the inscriptions, you could be right. It would help if we had a McIntyre signature to compare to. Inscribing 'Matty' as opposed to 'me', makes perfect sense if he's using the album to document trips that involved lots of people. I think I would do the same. Also, whoever did the inscriptions seemed to know all the same people that Matty would have known, frequently using nicknames. Using 'friend' in the 'Matty and friend' inscription makes less sense to me, unless the woman was someone who asked to pose with him.

[slidekellyslide]

We may never know, but lots of people saved their negatives. I just bought over 1000 negatives from an estate that date to around 1900 - 1920...I also just sold on ebay a month or so back about 100 glass plate negatives from the 1890s-1910s. That's not unusual at all. However you're not the only person who believes those inscriptions are in McIntyre's hand...as a non-autograph person I just don't know, and after so many years on this forum all autographs not obtained in person are questionable to me.

[Runscott]

This may or may not help:

'Matty' inscription vs 'Matty McIntyre' on Tiger team sheet

[slidekellyslide]

A few similarities and a some differences. That probably just mucks it up even more. I like the similarities though..starting the M high and probably not too many people slanted their y at the end of their name like that.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

A few similarities and a some differences. That probably just mucks it up even more. I like the similarities though..starting the M high and probably not too many people slanted their y at the end of their name like that.

I wanted to hear your opinion before I gave mine

I was VERY excited when the 1909 Tigers autograph page was posted, for the exact characteristics you mentioned ('M' and 'y').

Having said that, if there were 'lots' of McIntyre autographs around the hobby, and the single photo and inscription I have, was offered for sale as a genuine 'autograph', I wouldn't touch it. But I think this is a good test of 'provenance' (for lack of a more appropriate term). Given that my 'Matty' was not even pictured in the original auction description, it obviously wasn't being passed off as a fake autograph. So, is the 1909 Tigers sheet a forgery? If not, then that leaves us comparing the two bits of writing, deciding if they are reasonably close enough to think they were 'probably' or 'possibly' written by the same person, and if so, what is the likelihood that someone else had the same knowledge as Matty regarding the players in the album, and also wrote his first name with these same characteristics.

I don't know for certain, but I do believe it was Matty who penned the inscriptions.

On the other hand, if someone who I respected (with regard to autograph authentication) PM'd me saying that I was wrong, I would believe them and simply scratch my head.

[yanks12025]

But why would he write his name and a friend in the one photo and not Me with a friend or the friends name?

[prewarsports]

That was common back then, it was a more formal to refer to yourself in the 3rd person.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by yanks12025

But why would he write his name and a friend in the one photo and not Me with a friend or the friends name?

What Rhys said. There were a lot of conventions back then that seem strange to us now. I have an item that Ray Morehart's wife wrote 'Babe himself' on the front. Another item has 'Walter himself' written on the front, supposedly by Walter Johnson's wife. Seemed weird to me. Actually, I think Walter Johnson wrote it, not Hazel, but that's for another discussion