Peter Nash and Hauls of Shame

[Rich Klein]

I was having lunch with Leon today when we started discussing hobby topics. One we discussed briefly was Mr. Nash and Hauls of Shame.

I'm just curious what your opinion is/is not about him and why

Since this thread might end up being "messy", please post ONLY if you are willing to put your name out there.

Rich

[FrankWakefield]

It is the hobby, in an effort to police itself, instead slamming itself.

One of my daughters once walked up to me in a group of folks, all of us talking. She quietly said, "Dad, quit being a spoon." I processed that, then stepped aside to ask her about what she'd said. She told me that I'm always stirring people, that instead I should leave them alone. She was right. And Mr. Nash is a spoon. Takes one to know one. At times we need spoons. But not everything needs stirring.

[RUSH2112]

I read the story about the PSA graded Wagner card on another link and I have to ask if PSA knew it was cut from a sheet but graded it as if it were not cut, are they not themselves as dishonest as the guy who cut it from the sheet in the first place?

The article below claims it was cut from a sheet and the graders admitted knowing this.

http://articles.nydailynews.com/2010...umerical-grade

[Wite3]

Absolutely trimmed on the Wagner...

As to Mr. Nash...I still am not sure his motives are pure (you can read about some outlandish theories on the memorabilia side too).

I do see some good coming from him now but I still sort of lump him in with the wrong side of the hobby...he is like the kid in my class who gets caught cheating on a test and for the rest of the year, does nothing but tattle, accuse and harass the other students about cheating and how bad it is...very annoying and often misguided.

Joshua

[travrosty]

Rich, you ask other people for their thoughts, but don't give yours? Why not?

Here is mine, He is trying to help recover stolen items and keep the pressure on TPA's who are in a desperate race to authenticate everything under the sun, as well as the lax internal controls at some of these auction houses which lets some of these items slip through unabated.

Some people don't want to know. They just want to be told that everything is kosher, nothing from the NYPL or the Baseball HOF was ever stolen, Halper was too trusting and never tried to deceive anybody, and that autograph you buy in a fancy slab, "encapsulated for unquestioned authenticity" as auction houses like to call it - is never a laser copy, or a wife signed autograph, or a stamp.

I guess Hauls of Shame isn't for them and they can pop in Field of Dreams or The Natural and take themselves to a world where all Wagner cards are untrimmed, and pristine. We've all been there, it's called dreaming, but sometimes we need a splash of cold water to wake up. If Hauls of Shame had no merit and the articles weren't true, no one would read it. But they do, and that's not a coincidence.

So the people who don't like the articles for whatever reason, personal or business, naturally go after the author, like attacking the author somehow negates the articles.

It doesn't matter who writes the articles, if you don't like them, you don't like them. If Vince Lombardi had wrote the articles, they would find something on him, don't worry. He would be guilty of something in short order in order to try to marginalize and discredit what he is saying. I don't compare anyone to Lombardi, just saying no one, no matter their pedigree, up, down or sideways, could write articles that expose some of this stuff that Hauls of Shame exposes without taking strafe fire from people who don't like it or have a vested interest in things staying the same. Then all of the sudden the author is a target.

I'd be a target if I was the author, they would dissect my entire life if that's what it took. But some of these same people have no problem believing some anonymous "White Betsy" who won't even reveal who they are and believe what anyway? - since I can find any names in the articles, which just lets peoples imaginations run rampant with speculation. That is irresponsible, not Hauls of Shame.

I have read everything about Nash that is out there, so there are no surprises anyone can throw at me to change my mind that his website is set up to expose and try to clean up what is an otherwise authentication error-ridden and stolen property-ridden hobby at this point in time until real reforms and investigations by authorities take place to right the ship.

If people point to Nash and say whatever they want - fine, but remember, if Nash took the exact opposite view he would be a swell guy to those same people he is now looked at as the guy who shot Santa Claus.

[wonkaticket]

Nash is a con man who due to his actions have duped and defrauded a lot of folks out of cash, enjoyment and so on.

He is running from the law in so many ways his head must be spinning from all the lawyers, judges & warrants. Like many folks in this situation his next course of action is to point fingers at others to draw attention away from his own actions. Sure some of the things he brings up are legitimate and bad stuff, but the person blowing the whistle is just as guilty. Like one criminal rolling over on another one is not a victim and one sure isn’t a hero.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by FrankWakefield

It is the hobby, in an effort to police itself, instead slamming itself.

One of my daughters once walked up to me in a group of folks, all of us talking. She quietly said, "Dad, quit being a spoon." I processed that, then stepped aside to ask her about what she'd said. She told me that I'm always stirring people, that instead I should leave them alone. She was right. And Mr. Nash is a spoon. Takes one to know one. At times we need spoons. But not everything needs stirring.

Frank, your daughter nailed it. I don't generally agree with Travosky, but the original post invited dissenting opinions, and he got one. i.e-no spoon, no stir, no problems.

My thought about Nash is that he was out to make a buck, and he found that the best way to do that was through illegal means. Having no morals, that was no problem for him. Then he got caught and felt that he could make the highest dollar by being honest - had nothing to do with a change of heart.

There are others in this hobby who did the same thing as Nash (got caught and reverted to honesty, simply because it paid more), and we now honor them as gods. I won't name names, but one in particular gets new threads in his honor every time he starts auctioning stuff again. No difference other than a matter of degrees. Let's not be hypocrites.

[laughlinfan]

Admittedly, if I were directly a victim of the fraud, my opinion might be different, but from my outsider view, it almost seems to me that Peter is doing something similar to what Canseco did - got blackballed/shunned for past bad behavior, and got tired of the community all pointing fingers when he was aware that many of the sacred cows of the hobby were guilty as well. Whether he is doing this out of revenge or a desire to try to do a service to the hobby from which he has fallen from grace, I don't know. But if his claims are true (and certainly some of the accused are free to refute), I am happy that he is making folks aware of the fraud that is going on, regardless of his past.

[Leon]

So basically you are ok if someone murders someone, as long as they point out that someone else murdered someone too? Makes sense to me.

Like many have said, if he paid his dues, made restitution and quit his shenanigans then this would be a different conversation. Until that is done it's hard to get past the messenger to hear the message.

Originally Posted by laughlinfan

Admittedly, if I were directly a victim of the fraud, my opinion might be different, but from my outsider view, it almost seems to me that Peter is doing something similar to what Canseco did - got blackballed/shunned for past bad behavior, and got tired of the community all pointing fingers when he was aware that many of the sacred cows of the hobby were guilty as well. Whether he is doing this out of revenge or a desire to try to do a service to the hobby from which he has fallen from grace, I don't know. But if his claims are true (and certainly some of the accused are free to refute), I am happy that he is making folks aware of the fraud that is going on, regardless of his past.

[travrosty]

why are we talking about murdering someone, al capone was a serial murderer. this is ridiculous. where is any proof that anything like this happened.

its crazy and this whole thread is a setup.

[laughlinfan]

Not quite sure I am following your logic, but I'll take the bait! I don't think anywhere in my post did I indicate any sentiment that I am OK with Pete. Quite the contrary - if he did the things that he is accused of, I hope he gets everything that is coming to him and then some. I also hope that if the folks he points out in his articles did the things he has investigated and alleged, that they similarly get what they deserve.

Regardless of how I feel about Pete, that doesn't change the fact that if he is truly pointing out other legitimate instances of fraud, I am happy the information is out there.

So back to your question - if your murderer credibly points out someone else who is a murderer, regardless of his intentions (revenge, redemption, or redirection), I am glad both have been identified, and hope both of them get what they deserve.

Originally Posted by Leon

So basically you are ok if someone murders someone, as long as they point out that someone else murdered someone too? Makes sense to me.

Like many have said, if he paid his dues, made restitution and quit his shenanigans then this would be a different conversation. Until that is done it's hard to get past the messenger to hear the message.

[Deertick]

Originally Posted by laughlinfan

Admittedly, if I were directly a victim of the fraud, my opinion might be different, but from my outsider view, it almost seems to me that Peter is doing something similar to what Canseco did - got blackballed/shunned for past bad behavior, and got tired of the community all pointing fingers when he was aware that many of the sacred cows of the hobby were guilty as well. Whether he is doing this out of revenge or a desire to try to do a service to the hobby from which he has fallen from grace, I don't know. But if his claims are true (and certainly some of the accused are free to refute), I am happy that he is making folks aware of the fraud that is going on, regardless of his past.

+1

The output may have value even if the person does not.

If a registered sexual predator alerted you to a speed trap, would you ignore the info and take the ticket on principle?