Premium for Lionel Carter Collection Cards?

[GregMitch34]

Apologies if this has been discussed and settled 20 times already. Just noticed a card I liked that has never sold for more than $140 -- but buyer wants $390. No rational way--unless Lionel Carter cards (as it is so labeled by SGC) are worth twice as much. True? Wacko?

[Jaybird]

I've got some cards that probably wouldn't sell for more than $150 that I'd want much more to part with. It's just worth much more to me.

Did you contact him for it? Or is this something that is on ebay? Perhaps he's not that motivated to sell it and it has nothing to do with the Lionel Carter Pedigree.

[Jay Wolt]

Originally Posted by GregMitch34

Apologies if this has been discussed and settled 20 times already. Just noticed a card I liked that has never sold for more than $140 -- but buyer wants $390. No rational way--unless Lionel Carter cards (as it is so labeled by SGC) are worth twice as much. True? Wacko?

Apparently the seller wants almost 3 x as much
Carter pedigreed cards can bring in a small premium. But some sellers believe each card is rare
since Mr Carter only had 1 of each card, so in essence they are 1 of 1's

[usernamealreadytaken]

A seller will argue that the "pedigree" should bring a premium (I should know --- I tried).

I think the market has proven there is none.

[ethicsprof]

i have several Carter cards and paid a bit of a premium for each but certainly not anything near the 2-3X stated. I don't mind paying the premium because of what Jay W said about the "carter one of a kind".
I'd say I've paid about 15-20% more and know a few folks who have done similarly.
all the best,
barry

[oldjudge]

A card is a card. Who owned it, whether Lionel Carter or Joe Carter the butcher shouldn't impact it's value.

[calvindog]

I think there's a premium, but not a huge one. Certainly you'll know that the card has not been trimmed or otherwise altered as well as the fact that it was owned by a hobby legend.

[T206Collector]

That Jefferson Burdick once owned this card is actually more important to me than the fact that Lefty Leifield signed it.

[drc]

You'll get a good premium when the card belonged to Christy Mathewson.

[Jay Wolt]

Originally Posted by calvindog

I think there's a premium, but not a huge one. Certainly you'll know that the card has not been trimmed or otherwise altered as well as the fact that it was owned by a hobby legend.

Actually I have some Lionel Carter & Frank Nagy cards that are trimmed.
Here's a trimmed T207 that Mr Carter owned.

[philliesphan]

The prize card of my collection can be traced back to hobby pioneer Edward Wharton Tigar. That provenance in and of itself makes it exceptionally cool, a card for which I would pay a premium.

There have been examples of premiums paid for provenance. For example, I believe the 1952 Topps card that was owned by Mickey Mantle (from the Dreier collection) is one such example. All 1952 Mantles have a certain cache to them -- but one owned by Mantle has been demonstrated by the market to be worth a significant premium.

M

[tbob]

Originally Posted by calvindog

I think there's a premium, but not a huge one. Certainly you'll know that the card has not been trimmed or otherwise altered as well as the fact that it was owned by a hobby legend.

Unfortunately, not true, Jeff. There are several pre-war caramel cards which have been trimmed, in authentic holders, with the Lionel Carter pedigree. I own a few myself. I think what you meant was that Lionel did not trim or alter the cards himself and I would agree with that 100%, but he may have purchased or traded for cards which had been trimmed or altered.

[dog*dirt]

Originally Posted by tbob

Unfortunately, not true, Jeff. There are several pre-war caramel cards which have been trimmed, in authentic holders, with the Lionel Carter pedigree. I own a few myself. I think what you meant was that Lionel did not trim or alter the cards himself and I would agree with that 100%, but he may have purchased or traded for cards which had been trimmed or altered.

I agree because this card I have used to be in a slab with the Lionel Carter flip. I still have the flip somewhere.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by tbob

Unfortunately, not true, Jeff. There are several pre-war caramel cards which have been trimmed, in authentic holders, with the Lionel Carter pedigree. I own a few myself. I think what you meant was that Lionel did not trim or alter the cards himself and I would agree with that 100%, but he may have purchased or traded for cards which had been trimmed or altered.

Bob, exactly.

[Jay Wolt]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

A card is a card. Who owned it, whether Lionel Carter or Joe Carter the butcher shouldn't impact it's value.

I paid a premium (over the regular value based on condition) on the Feller cards and was delighted to do so.
There is a premium for a PSA/SGC slabbed card over the same card in a top load.
And there can be premiums set for pedigreed cards, based on who owned them.
There are some Mickey Mantle owned cards floating around, would love to purchase one.

[benjulmag]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

A card is a card. Who owned it, whether Lionel Carter or Joe Carter the butcher shouldn't impact it's value.

I agree in part.

Where though a card's pedigree can be germane to its value is when it can serve to dispel the possibililty the card has been altered. For those cards Lionel Carter is known to have pulled directly from the packs, I'd be willing to pay a premium. I might add, in support of Jay's point, that I'd be prepared to pay the same premium for Joe the butcher's cards if the market gave the same recognition they likewise were pulled from packs.

[teetwoohsix]

I loved the whole "Beantown Find" story and the cards that surfaced that hadn't been seen by the hobby in decades was really cool. The provenance thing is attractive, especially if it's a card that was owned by a hobby pioneer.

Sincerely, Clayton

[barrysloate]

Run of the mill cards from a famous collector probably don't command much of a premium at all, although all things being equal, collectors might enjoy knowing that a card they own once belonged to a hobby legend.

But I do think it is more significant if a great rarity was once part of a famous collection. That's the kind of pedigree that is likely to command a premium, and one that is coveted by advanced collectors.