Calling All True Pre-War Buffs: Rank The T206 HOFers

[bundy462]

Thought this would be interesting and educational to see for guys like me who have entered the hobby through the interest of cards, but are not true pre-war baseball buffs. How would any pre-war baseball buffs out there rank the T206 HOFers as players? Forget about cards for a little while, rank them on their careers! Just for fun, throw Hal Chase in there too as he's a HOFer for not his off the field issues. The list is...

Frank Baker
Jake Beckley
Chief Bender
Roger Bresnahan
Mordecai Brown
Frank Chance
Hal Chase
Jack Chesbro
Fred Clarke
Ty Cobb
Eddie Collins
Jimmy Collins
Sam Crawford
George Davis
Hugh Duffy
Johnny Evers
Elmer Flick
Clark Griffith
Miller Huggins
Hugh Jennings
Walter Johnson
Addie Joss
Willie Keeler
Joe Kelley
Nap Lajoie
Rube Marquard
Christy Mathewson
Joe McGinnity
John McGraw
Eddie Plank
Tris Speaker
Joe Tinker
Rube Waddell
Honus Wagner
Bobby Wallace
Ed Walsh
Zach Wheat
Vic Willis
Cy Young

[forazzurri2axz]

GREATEST HOF PITCHING STAFF

MADDUX GLAVINE SMOLTZ (AND AVERY IF NOT INJURED!!

and those of us in Atlanta were lucky to watch 'em!!!!

[FrankWakefield]

Top ten...

Wagner
Cobb
Young
Mathewson
Lajoie

Speaker
E Collins
Waddell
Walsh
Brown

YOU GUYS ARE RIGHT>>>>
Edited / corrected 10

Wagner
Cobb
Young
Mathewson
Johnson

Lajoie
Speaker
E Collins
Waddell
Walsh

and I had given some thought about Mr. McGraw, but he just didn't quite make the top 10... maybe he should have.

[t206blogcom]

Frank - I think you have to include Walter Johnson in your top 10.

[ValKehl]

Originally Posted by t206blogcom

frank - i think you have to include walter johnson in your top 10.

+1,000!!

[irishdenny]

1st Class
Christy Mathewson - He's the Man - (Work Horse)
Ed Walsh - No Respect, His ERA is Mind Boggling - (Work Horse)
Hans Wagner - Complete Consistency
Ty Cobb - The Greatest "Over Achiever" in any Sport - Ever!
Cy Young - Massive Numbers ~ Longevity

2nd Class
Nap Lajoie
Walter Johnson
Tris Speaker.
Rube Waddell
Mordecai Brown

When it com's to Player's, Prewar Pitcher's hold a Very Strong Opinion of mine. They spent A Lot of Time on the Mound, or lack there of! They pitched from even level and the crowd was ever so close. Equaling Major Pressure to get it done!

[kllrbee]

I know the question is to rank the best players, but Im gonna throw a litlle curveball here.
I am no expert, but it seems everything I read has Mcgraw in the middle of everything. I think he might have been the most influential and respected player of his time. Little Napoleon that he was....haha.
Other than that, it looks like irishdenny has hit the nail on the head.

[daves_resale_shop]

What a fun exercise... Added a few names in there...


Ty Cobb
Walter Johnson
Cy Young
Honus Wagner
Christy Mathewson
Tris Speaker
Nap Lajoie
Eddie Collins
Eddie Plank
Ed Walsh
Mordecai Brown
Sam Crawford
Addie Joss
Rube Waddell
Willie Keeler
Frank Baker
Chief Bender
Zack Wheat
Gavvy Cravath
Joe Mcginnity
Clark Griffith
Fred Clarke
Elmer Flick
Ed Ruelbach
Joe Kelley
Hugh Duffy
Jake Beckley
Roger Bresnahan
Jack Chesbro
Mike Donlin
Frank Chance
HAL CHASE
George Davis
Jimmy Collins
Frank Chance
Vic Willis
Rube Marquard
Johnny Evers
Bobby Wallace
Joe Tinker

Managers
-John Mcgraw
-Hugh Jennings
-Miller Huggins

[michael3322]

Great thread.

I've long wondered why Willie Keeler hasn't received more due. At 5'7" 140lb, he compiled nearly 3k hits, was the hardest guy to strike out in baseball history (only Sewell was close), had the longest hitting streak of his era, etc. In terms of doing the most with the body you were given, he gets my vote.

Rank Player (yrs, age) AB per SO Bats
1. Willie Keeler+ (19) 63.17 L
2. Joe Sewell+ (14) 62.56 L
3. Lave Cross (21) 45.08 R
4. Lloyd Waner+ (18) 44.92 L
5. Joe Start (16) 43.51 L
6. Nellie Fox+ (19) 42.74 L
7. Tommy Holmes (11) 40.92 L
8. Emil Verban (7) 39.34 R
9. Homer Summa (10) 34.10 L
10. Andy High (13) 33.85 L

Source: Baseball Reference

Also, Joss has the best WHIP of any pitcher ever.

Rank Player (yrs, age) Walks & Hits per IP Throws
1. Addie Joss+ (9) 0.9678 R
2. Mariano Rivera (17, 42) 0.9981 R
3. Ed Walsh+ (14) 0.9996 R
4. Monte Ward+ (17) 1.0435 R
5. Pedro Martinez (18) 1.0544 R
6. Christy Mathewson+ (17) 1.0581 R
7. Trevor Hoffman (18) 1.0584 R
8. Walter Johnson+ (21) 1.0612 R
9. Mordecai Brown+ (14) 1.0658 R
10. Charlie Sweeney (6) 1.0673 R

Source: Baseball Reference

That technically makes him the hardest pitcher for a batter to face in baseball history. His career was tragically short, but he would be high on my list too.

[drumback]

When did they put Hal Chase in the Hall of Fame?

[bundy462]

Very interesting add ins to the list. What is your take on Cy Seymour and Bill Dahlen? Seymour was the strikeout leader a few times early in his career as a pitcher before moving to OF where he was an over .300 career hitter. He also missed the triple crown due to finishing second only in HRs one year. Dahlen I believe is more of a player/manager overall effort more so than just as a player.

Originally Posted by daves_resale_shop

What a fun exercise... Added a few names in there...


Ty Cobb
Walter Johnson
Cy Young
Honus Wagner
Christy Mathewson
Tris Speaker
Nap Lajoie
Eddie Collins
Eddie Plank
Ed Walsh
Mordecai Brown
Sam Crawford
Addie Joss
Rube Waddell
Willie Keeler
Frank Baker
Chief Bender
Zack Wheat
Gavvy Cravath
Joe Mcginnity
Clark Griffith
Fred Clarke
Elmer Flick
Ed Ruelbach
Joe Kelley
Hugh Duffy
Jake Beckley
Roger Bresnahan
Jack Chesbro
Mike Donlin
Frank Chance
HAL CHASE
George Davis
Jimmy Collins
Frank Chance
Vic Willis
Rube Marquard
Johnny Evers
Bobby Wallace
Joe Tinker

Managers
-John Mcgraw
-Hugh Jennings
-Miller Huggins

[daves_resale_shop]

Originally Posted by bundy462

Very interesting add ins to the list. What is your take on Cy Seymour and Bill Dahlen? Seymour was the strikeout leader a few times early in his career as a pitcher before moving to OF where he was an over .300 career hitter. He also missed the triple crown due to finishing second only in HRs one year. Dahlen I believe is more of a player/manager overall effort more so than just as a player.

I can't say that I am too familiar with Dahlen's career, but there is most definitely something to be said for Seymour's versatility, longevity, and productivity as a deadballer... If I were a member of the veteran's committee I would give him my vote!

Great Thread!

[bundy462]

Glad I posted this, Ed Walsh is showing up much higher than I had expected. Interesting to see that Cy Young is ranking ahead of WaJo also...keep em coming.